Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid: Flyers Rumors & Media Mentions

[freakydallas13]

It could just be a smoke screen, but it also feels like classic PR framing. Leak a bunch of things that sound awful. Only make a few of them happen. Then it doesn't look so bad.

You know it's bad when "Look, we could have made all of these terrible decisions, aren't you glad we only made half of them?" is the optimistic scenario.

 

[wankstifier]

I’m not effusive on Zegras anyways, not really interested him him. Don’t think he’s a center when he gets older.

Like in his late 20s/early 30s? The guy is almost 23

 

[usahockey22flyers]

They did ask about Zegras, but note the point about not wanting to give up assets. This team is completely castrated and they’ll just keep straddling the line because they can’t muster up the courage to break up their culture party.

That’s what makes me upset. This team has some legitimately nice pieces currently here: 74, 11, 8, 10, 71, 86, 48, 33, 9, 6… none are at the level of “elite”. A couple of nice prospects not named Michkov, also cool, but what are their true ceilings?

They didn’t want to tank, ok that’s fine! But you have to move Seeler, Walker, Laughton to get assets to go get a Zegras, or a young star that wants to play in the US or the East Coast. Otherwise we are banking on a few mid to late firsts to draft that elite talent - or use as trade bait. Also with Ellis, Hayes, DeAngelo, and Petersen all impacting our cap in one way or another….our short term flexibility largely is impacted by the cap stagnating.

This week is gonna be a disaster, I said I would wait to judge Danny come Friday but it’s not looking good. At all.

 

[iceman42]

That’s what makes me upset. This team has some legitimately nice pieces currently here: 74, 11, 8, 10, 71, 86, 48, 33, 9, 6… none are at the level of “elite”. A couple of nice prospects not named Michkov, also cool, but what are their true ceilings?

They didn’t want to tank, ok that’s fine! But you have to move Seeler, Walker, Laughton to get assets to go get a Zegras, or a young star that wants to play in the US or the East Coast. Otherwise we are banking on a few mid to late firsts to draft that elite talent - or use as trade bait. Also with Ellis, Hayes, DeAngelo, and Petersen all impacting our cap in one way or another….our short term flexibility largely is impacted by the cap stagnating.

This week is gonna be a disaster, I said I would wait to judge Danny come Friday but it’s not looking good. At all.

We also start forgetting that Danny hasn't done much at all. The Provy trade was a win, but not sure that wasn't lucky that Walker ended up having his best season, if the proposed Blues trade had gone through that would have likely been a disaster, they only lucked when Krug nixed the deal.

 

[Redpath]

thats my concern .. "aww shucks we tried but ..."

"We had a high price. We like our guys. No one matched that, so we were happy to stand put. Not going to let other GMs bully us around."

This logic works for Laughton, who has term. But not the UFAs.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Friedman on 32 Thoughts:

- Philly likely to add a CHEAP goaltender and veteran forward at the deadline.
- they will not budge on contract or trade negotiations. Friedman expects Laughton to stay in Philly.
- said he heard on Sunday that Philly has their eyes on the playoffs and want to acquire pieces to make that happen, but not high end assets used to acquire it.
- said they touched on Zegras, but they don’t want to spend the assets to acquire.
- although there’s a bunch of noise regarding Seeler, Walker, and Laughton, if teams don’t match, then they’re not moving. Philly also won’t budge on contracts negotiations. Walker wants 5 years likely around 30 mil and Philly doesn’t want to go that long. Seeler wants somewhere above 3 and Philly doesn’t want to go that high.

He expressed a little concern that they’re backing themselves into a corner. If they won’t play ball, then it fully comes down to how Briere can handle everything caving in at once.

Almost too predictable

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I think the “not a rebuild” position is founded on the principle that they have to pass some kind of competency bar for this to not be their version of it. That’s giving them too much credit.

 

[snoop88]

Gotta love the Panthers having the best record in the league and the worst 1st round pick the year we have their pick.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

It feels like this FO really, really needs the Blues to hang 7 on us tonight to snap them out of their reverie. Even that might not help, but they are absolutely going to make the wrong choices if not.

Counterpoint: Any time you get the chance to model a franchise on the Blue Jackets, you simply have go to do it. Take big swings!

 

[Random Forest]

Maybe I’m just being a ~~dumb blue collar fan~~ but I don’t have a problem with setting a price on your assets and saying “meet this price or we will hold them”.

My first priority, by far, would be to find a creative way to get a 1st round pick for Walker, but if the alternatives are trading him for a 2nd or keeping him, I just don’t have a strong take on that. Ditto for Laughton who actually does have real value to the team. Seeler is whatever.

 

[BiggE]

Friedman on 32 Thoughts:

- Philly likely to add a CHEAP goaltender and veteran forward at the deadline.
- they will not budge on contract or trade negotiations. Friedman expects Laughton to stay in Philly.
- said he heard on Sunday that Philly has their eyes on the playoffs and want to acquire pieces to make that happen, but not high end assets used to acquire it.
- said they touched on Zegras, but they don’t want to spend the assets to acquire.
- although there’s a bunch of noise regarding Seeler, Walker, and Laughton, if teams don’t match, then they’re not moving. Philly also won’t budge on contracts negotiations. Walker wants 5 years likely around 30 mil and Philly doesn’t want to go that long. Seeler wants somewhere above 3 and Philly doesn’t want to go that high.

He expressed a little concern that they’re backing themselves into a corner. If they won’t play ball, then it fully comes down to how Briere can handle everything caving in at once.

Yeah, this isn’t going to end well

 

[Audible Velvet]

I’m curious to see the vet they bring in. He didn’t touch on any name or role type. My assumption would be someone worth a late, late round pick that’s a good room guy. Someone like Pat Maroon who has played in like 3 cups and makes the playoffs every year. Builds into the broad street bully mentality as well.

Perf Story - the prodigal returns kinda thing.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Maybe I’m just being a ~~dumb blue collar fan~~ but I don’t have a problem with setting a price on your assets and saying “meet this price or we will hold them”.

My first priority, by far, would be to find a creative way to get a 1st round pick for Walker, but if the alternatives are trading him for a 2nd or keeping him, I just don’t have a strong take on that. Ditto for Laughton who actually does have real value to the team. Seeler is whatever.

Agreed.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Playing the fence never works. All in or all out. Don't play the middle.

 

[CapnZin]

I think the “not a rebuild” position is founded on the principle that they have to pass some kind of competency bar for this to not be their version of it. That’s giving them too much credit.

That’s funny. You just explained the plot to Chernobyl.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Maybe I’m just being a ~~dumb blue collar fan~~ but I don’t have a problem with setting a price on your assets and saying “meet this price or we will hold them”.

My first priority, by far, would be to find a creative way to get a 1st round pick for Walker, but if the alternatives are trading him for a 2nd or keeping him, I just don’t have a strong take on that. Ditto for Laughton who actually does have real value to the team. Seeler is whatever.

There’s saying that and then there’s doing it to the point of self-harm. Posturing is good. I don’t know if you follow the NBA, but I have major problems with the way the Raptors’ GM did exactly what it appears the Flyers may do in sticking to their valuations over what the market would provide. You can’t just get nothing for these guys when you’re not a contender. That’s the worst case scenario.

Seeler is separate other than the contract. In regard to a 1st vs a 2nd for Walker, it doesn’t matter. If the market will bear a 2, the discussion is not materially different from whether or not they should trade away a 2 for a Defenseman. I suspect you’d object to that more.

 

[BiggE]

Maybe I’m just being a ~~dumb blue collar fan~~ but I don’t have a problem with setting a price on your assets and saying “meet this price or we will hold them”.

My first priority, by far, would be to find a creative way to get a 1st round pick for Walker, but if the alternatives are trading him for a 2nd or keeping him, I just don’t have a strong take on that. Ditto for Laughton who actually does have real value to the team. Seeler is whatever.

That’s ok for Laughton, but not for the soon to be UFAs. If you don’t trade Seeler & Walker you either end up giving both too much money/term or you let them walk for nothing .
I’ll take the 2nd & 3rd round picks they will fetch over either of those two scenarios

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Friedman on 32 Thoughts:

- Philly likely to add a CHEAP goaltender and veteran forward at the deadline.
- they will not budge on contract or trade negotiations. Friedman expects Laughton to stay in Philly.
- said he heard on Sunday that Philly has their eyes on the playoffs and want to acquire pieces to make that happen, but not high end assets used to acquire it.
- said they touched on Zegras, but they don’t want to spend the assets to acquire.
- although there’s a bunch of noise regarding Seeler, Walker, and Laughton, if teams don’t match, then they’re not moving. Philly also won’t budge on contracts negotiations. Walker wants 5 years likely around 30 mil and Philly doesn’t want to go that long. Seeler wants somewhere above 3 and Philly doesn’t want to go that high.

He expressed a little concern that they’re backing themselves into a corner. If they won’t play ball, then it fully comes down to how Briere can handle everything caving in at once.

"I know how to sit on a fence...The trick is to do it face down with the post in your mouth." - Flyers management.

I hate this team. My co-workers cannot understand how I still am unhappy with the Flyers despite their success this year.

 

[Random Forest]

There’s saying that and then there’s doing it to the point of self-harm. Posturing is good. I don’t know if you follow the NBA, but I have major problems with the way the Raptors’ GM did exactly what it appears the Flyers may do in sticking to their valuations over what the market would provide. You can’t just get nothing for these guys when you’re not a contender. That’s the worst case scenario.

Seeler is separate other than the contract. In regard to a 1st vs a 2nd for Walker, it doesn’t matter. If the market will bear a 2, the discussion is not materially different from whether or not they should trade away a 2 for a Defenseman. I suspect you’d object to that more.

That’s ok for Laughton, but not for the soon to be UFAs. If you don’t trade Seeler & Walker you either end up giving both too much and term or letting them walk.

I’ll take the 2nd & 3rd round picks they will fetch over either of those two scenarios

Your points are valid. There is obviously ample merit to the “cash in value on your expiring UFAs” reasoning, and I’m honestly willing to concede that that’s probably the optimal strategy, so I don’t want to overdo the point I’m making. But I just want to voice some legitimacy to the idea that a young team in playoff contention also stands to gain from giving the team the best chance (even a futile one!) down the stretch and signal that the team intends to be as competitive as possible.

I think most “culture” takes are generally BS, but there is something to be said for putting young players in high pressure situations and affording them the opportunity to gain experience in the postseason. As opposed to publicly waving the white flag and declaring the year a futile exercise. Is Walker the make or break of that? No, probably not. But it’s a signal, and young players do benefit from having a healthy reward system where playing well and exceeding expectations matters. To us, a 1st round exit is a 1st round exit, but to young players experiencing the playoffs for the first time, not all experiences are equal.

 

[CapnZin]

"I know how to sit on a fence...The trick is to do it face down with the post in your mouth." - Flyers management.

I hate this team. My co-workers cannot understand how I still am unhappy with the Flyers despite their success this year.

It looks like teams are reading Briere’s poker face. They’re finding alternatives at market rates where DB is requiring premium pricing. In a vacuum that’s fine, but they need to pick and choose. If you want to be a playoff team then make it happen. The worst part about doing a balancing act and waiting on team performance or the market valuations is that your legs get tired after waiting so long. It looks like the flyers legs are tired and they’re holding on for dear life. All this remains to be seen, but 3/8 will be the finale

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I think most “culture” takes are generally BS, but there is something to be said for putting young players in high pressure situations and affording them the opportunity to gain experience in the postseason. As opposed to publicly waving the white flag and declaring the year a futile exercise. Is Walker the make or break of that? No, probably not. But it’s a signal, and young players do benefit from having a healthy reward system when they’ve played well and exceeded expectations.

I think the mental and motivational aspects of professional coaching are the most difficult bits by far. Seasons are inflated for financial reasons. Stress points are everywhere at all times. You're dealing with extraordinarily competitive and strong-willed people. Someone like Jon Cooper gets immense credit from me for how he approaches those issues.

If you are so sure you "finally got the coach right" or whatever the exact quote was that you made keeping him a requirement for your next GM, but you don't trust your HC enough to navigate difficult waters, it should be a sign to figure out which of those statements the org believes in more. Both cannot be true.

 

[Redpath]

Your points are valid. There is obviously ample merit to the “cash in value on your expiring UFAs” reasoning, and I’m honestly willing to concede that that’s probably the optimal strategy, so I don’t want to overdo the point I’m making. But I just want to voice some legitimacy to the idea that a young team in playoff contention also stands to gain from giving the team the best chance (even a futile one!) down the stretch and signal that the team intends to be as competitive as possible.

I think most “culture” takes are generally BS, but there is something to be said for putting young players in high pressure situations and affording them the opportunity to gain experience in the postseason. As opposed to publicly waving the white flag and declaring the year a futile exercise. Is Walker the make or break of that? No, probably not. But it’s a signal, and young players do benefit from having a healthy reward system where playing well and exceeding expectations matters. To us, a 1st round exit is a 1st round exit, but to young players experiencing the playoffs for the first time, not all experiences are equal.

I object to the idea that selling off UFAs is a signal to the young players of waving the white flag. Briere has said from the start it's a rebuild. Torts has signaled that players are aware of where the team stands on the rebuild. The players should be fully aware that trading off pending UFAs is not waving the white flag, rather it's just a natural part of the rebuild that they are supposedly aware of. They should not take it personally. If anything, trading off Walker and Seeler just amplifies the high pressure situations and opportunities for the younger guys.

We can play the culture card here while also maxing out value for UFAs. Let them experience a playoff push with expanded roles.

 

[renberg]

Briere is in a tough place. Teams know that Fletcher was easy to roll over. Until proven otherwise, they will try to push Briere around as well. He needs to hold the line here. He did well with he Provorov trade; got it done with Hayes and TDA; did the best that he could with the Gauthier mess. IMO, unlike Fletcher, he has been reasonable in his asks and use of cap space to help facilitate moves.
For this year being called such a low end draft after the first dozen or so picks, why a team wouldn't be willing to ante up one for a combo of Walker and Seeler or Laughton is surprising. We'll have to wait out the next five days to see what goes down but I don't believe that Briere has misread the market place. Some agents and their players might have as well as some other clubs. The POs are a gauntlet and injuries on the backend are a lock. A club can never have enough quality defensemen.

 

[Random Forest]

I object to the idea that selling off UFAs is a signal to the young players of waving the white flag. Briere has said from the start it's a rebuild. Torts has signaled that players are aware of where the team stands on the rebuild. The players should be fully aware that trading off pending UFAs is not waving the white flag, rather it's just a natural part of the rebuild that they are supposedly aware of. They should not take it personally. If anything, trading off Walker and Seeler just amplifies the high pressure situations and opportunities for the younger guys.

We can play the culture card here while also maxing out value for UFAs. Let them experience a playoff push with expanded roles.

You and I can understand that easily, sure, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable for players to find it frustrating that a generally competitive season was conceded as a rebuilding year by management. I would love if the players could zoom in and zoom out like we can as fans (and like management should), but they can’t. The reward system is different, and there is a fine line between optimizing for the long term and cultivating a win-at-all-costs mentality, which is what we want from the players. It’s not an easy balance to want Tippett, Foerster, Frost, etc. to become hyper competitive winners in the NHL *and also* ask them to recognize that this year is a wash and they shouldn’t expect to do everything possible to win.

Just want to acknowledge the conflicting tension there, even if I agree your strategy is right in the overall arc of team building.

 

[BiggE]

Your points are valid. There is obviously ample merit to the “cash in value on your expiring UFAs” reasoning, and I’m honestly willing to concede that that’s probably the optimal strategy, so I don’t want to overdo the point I’m making. But I just want to voice some legitimacy to the idea that a young team in playoff contention also stands to gain from giving the team the best chance (even a futile one!) down the stretch and signal that the team intends to be as competitive as possible.

I think most “culture” takes are generally BS, but there is something to be said for putting young players in high pressure situations and affording them the opportunity to gain experience in the postseason. As opposed to publicly waving the white flag and declaring the year a futile exercise. Is Walker the make or break of that? No, probably not. But it’s a signal, and young players do benefit from having a healthy reward system where playing well and exceeding expectations matters. To us, a 1st round exit is a 1st round exit, but to young players experiencing the playoffs for the first time, not all experiences are equal.

1st round exits don’t mean squat and we’ve already been through them during the last “rebuild but not really”
2014 1st round exit
2015 DNQ
2016 1st round exit
2017 DNQ
2018 1st round exit
2019 DNQ

Those first round exits accomplished nothing save for putting a few million dollars in Comcast’s deep pockets. If the team had been properly blown up after 14-15 and a real rebuild begun, they likely would be at least a quality playoff team if not a contender by now.