Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid 3 - Flyers Rumors and Media Mentions: Never Ending Circles

[Audible Velvet]

Meltz:


“They are in a rebuld; hence, hurting their playoff chances at the deadline last season to pick up an extra first round pick, and stockpiling a total of six picks (two their own, four from other orgs) for the 2025 Draft. Whether it's the rebuild effort you'd want doesn't make it a "false narrative".

Want to say that it's a halfway effort ala the Hextall years (trading Schenn, for example, but keeping Giroux, Voracek and Simmond through their primes)? That's fair.

To say it's not a rebuild at all? That's not true.”

So it’s the most pathetic, misguided excuse for a rebuild imaginable. And it’s guaranteed to fail.
Okay, Bill.

 

[freakydallas13]

"They're in a rebuild, that's why they trade players who don't match their timeline like Laughton and Konecny"

 

[Beef Invictus]

I hope your prime example isn't Cutter Gauthier who never even played for the Flyers.

You already forgot Giroux?

 

[Kelmitchell2]

I hope your prime example isn't Cutter Gauthier who never even played for the Flyers.

Lindros is a pretty good example, and that was done by everyone's sweetheart, Clarke the old man who needs to completely go the hell away

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Lindros is a pretty good example, and that was done by everyone's sweetheart, Clarke the old man who needs to completely go the hell away

no one is more importanter then Clarke..

 

[Beef Invictus]

The team's propaganda machine throwing Hayes under the bus for Cutter was quite shitty.

 

[TCTC]

Lindros is a pretty good example, and that was done by everyone's sweetheart, Clarke the old man who needs to completely go the hell away

Lindros was just a personal feud between Clarke and the Lindros family. Lindros has featured in so much alumni stuff in recent years that I find it hard to believe that there's any hard feelings between him and the Flyers as an organization.

You already forgot Giroux?

How was he treated badly after he left? He was granted a trade to a team of his choosing. Not the Flyers fault that it didn't work out for him.

 

[kudymen]

Revisionism only needed a few years lolz. Quick, to the defendomobil! #NewEraOfSaintOrange

 

[Beef Invictus]

Lindros was just a personal feud between Clarke and the Lindros family. Lindros has featured in so much alumni stuff in recent years that I find it hard to believe that there's any hard feelings between him and the Flyers as an organization.


How was he treated badly after he left? He was granted a trade to a team of his choosing. Not the Flyers fault that it didn't work out for him.

The Flyers media machine tried to blame him for Fletcher's incompetence and then the team didn't even consider bringing him back when he wanted to as part of their spiteful shitty little feud.

I guess you actually have forgotten

 

[Boxscore]

When it comes to ex-players being employed by the Flyers in key positions, I don't think we can make absolute decisions solely based on their status of player.

For example, we can rip Clarke all we like, but during his first tenure as GM, he did some great things. He helped build an identity and was pivotal in selecting many key pieces who led the mid-80s teams to the Cup vs. Oilers. If the Flyers weren't going up against the greatest offensive machine in history, the Flyers easily could have had 2 Cups with young GM Clarke at the helm.

Holmgren was a mixed bag. Barber was a massive failure as a coach. Berube got nuked and won a Cup with the Blues before being the biggest available coaching ticket for the Leafs who desperately need a strong communicator with stones and perspective behind the bench. Hextall was a massive failure in Philly and Pittsburgh.

My problem with Briere and Jones isn't that they are ex-Flyers. My problem (as it has become apparent to me) is that they either...

A. Lack the long-term vision to build a legitimate contender

B. Are either reluctant to, or don't recognize the need to, push back on ownership if their directive is to "not fully rebuild"

C. Aren't willing to challenge their coach or scouts during the most crucial juncture of a rebuild

Either way, failure to address the above will likely result in more of the same for another 12-15 years, except this time fans have a treat to watch in Michkov before he gets frustrated. Unfortunately, unless Briere drastically reverses course on the Konecny situation (and trades him along with Laughton) before the season, I see the Michkov era in Philly ending like the Bure era in Vancouver -- great excitement and thrills but ultimately always falling short.

But this flaw by Briere cannot be blamed on him "being an ex-Flyer" imho. Fans insist on going completely off the grid and turning over the reigns to a foreign regime that perceptually distances themselves from the Flyers brand. Yeah, well how did that work out for the Leafs when they handed the keys to Shanahan, Dubas, and Keefe?

Hockey is a tight-knit sport with a limited network and recycled jobs. Trying to be ultra-progressive and reinvent the wheel often results in failure like the Leafs under Dubas. Everyone wants their team to headline the next "Moneyball" story and that's not realistic.

Personally, I think the best organizations are ones that are brilliant at capitalizing on the nostalgia and legacy of their past while making the best (and most calculated) decisions at key times. The Avalanche were able to win a Cup and remain a steady powerhouse under GM Joe Sakic. I don't think it's far-fetched to believe the Wings could eventually become a top contender down the line under Yzerman.

My biggest problem with Briere is his lack of cohesion and passive-aggressive decision-making that sways from methodical to knee-jerk. He certainly played a key part in drafting and brilliantly managing the Michkov situation (so far). Although he may have exposed himself if the Flyers ended up trading Gauthier to Montreal in 23 and drafting Reinbacher 5th overall.

He secured Michkov and helped him arrive early which points to a man who is forward-thinking, bold, and opportunistic. However, since then, literally every move he made has been the polar opposite of that...

Not trading Laughton, Konecny, and others during a supposed rebuild. Drafting "safe" players after Michkov in 2023. Not being brazen enough to trade up for a potential franchise player in Demidov. And not seizing the opportunity to pick a potentially elite D prospect in Buium when he fell right into his lap, apparently because him and his scouts already made up their mind that they were drafting a centerman and had tunnel vision when it came to Luchanko. He's also sat on his hands this off-season and hasn't rid the team of vets like Konecny, Laughton, and others who can help play the Flyers out of a top pick in 25 and who do not match the optimal timeline for success.

But this has nothing to do with "Briere being an ex-Flyer." I just don't believe Briere is talented enough or has a comprehensive enough plan for long-term success. But I think reducing his potential failure to "he's part of the Flyers culture" is a lazy, simplistic take. And if anyone believes exiling Bob Clarke, Paul Holmgren, and John LeClair to Siberia would instantly turn Danny Briere into Sam Pollock, they are mistaken.

What we are seeing now is 100% the doing of Briere and Jones. They are either giving the coach too much say in player personnel or they cannot recognize their scouts and talent evaluators are mostly outdated in their thinking. Either way, this is on their shoulders and I believe they have complete freedom to maneuver and repair it... only if they wish.

 

[TCTC]

The Flyers media machine tried to blame him for Fletcher's incompetence and then the team didn't even consider bringing him back when he wanted to as part of their spiteful shitty little feud.

I guess you actually have forgotten

Again, that was just Fletcher being incompetent as a GM unable to make the salary cap work. Giroux bought a house in Ottawa before he even left the Panthers. I don't think him returning was ever in the cards.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Again, that was just Fletcher being incompetent as a GM unable to make the salary cap work. Giroux bought a house in Ottawa before he even left the Panthers. I don't think him returning was ever in the cards.

Yeah, everything we have heard says otherwise. He told them he wanted to come back when he was traded and they shit on him. It was never in the cards because they were pissy he used his NTC.

The cap was there and it was squandered on nonsense as always.

 

[Beef Invictus]

When it comes to ex-players being employed by the Flyers in key positions, I don't think we can make absolute decisions solely based on their status of player.

For example, we can rip Clarke all we like, but during his first tenure as GM, he did some great things. He helped build an identity and was pivotal in selecting many key pieces who led the mid-80s teams to the Cup vs. Oilers. If the Flyers weren't going up against the greatest offensive machine in history, the Flyers easily could have had 2 Cups with young GM Clarke at the helm.

Holmgren was a mixed bag. Barber was a massive failure as a coach. Berube got nuked and won a Cup with the Blues before being the biggest available coaching ticket for the Leafs who desperately need a strong communicator with stones and perspective behind the bench. Hextall was a massive failure in Philly and Pittsburgh.

My problem with Briere and Jones isn't that they are ex-Flyers. My problem (as it has become apparent to me) is that they either...

A. Lack the long-term vision to build a legitimate contender

B. Are either reluctant to, or don't recognize the need to, push back on ownership if their directive is to "not fully rebuild"

C. Aren't willing to challenge their coach or scouts during the most crucial juncture of a rebuild

Either way, failure to address the above will likely result in more of the same for another 12-15 years, except this time fans have a treat to watch in Michkov before he gets frustrated. Unfortunately, unless Briere drastically reverses course on the Konecny situation (and trades him along with Laughton) before the season, I see the Michkov era in Philly ending like the Bure era in Vancouver -- great excitement and thrills but ultimately always falling short.

But this flaw by Briere cannot be blamed on him "being an ex-Flyer" imho. Fans insist on going completely off the grid and turning over the reigns to a foreign regime that perceptually distances themselves from the Flyers brand. Yeah, well how did that work out for the Leafs when they handed the keys to Shanahan, Dubas, and Keefe?

Hockey is a tight-knit sport with a limited network and recycled jobs. Trying to be ultra-progressive and reinvent the wheel often results in failure like the Leafs under Dubas. Everyone wants their team to headline the next "Moneyball" story and that's not realistic.

Personally, I think the best organizations are ones that are brilliant at capitalizing on the nostalgia and legacy of their past while making the best (and most calculated) decisions at key times. The Avalanche were able to win a Cup and remain a steady powerhouse under GM Joe Sakic. I don't think it's far-fetched to believe the Wings could eventually become a top contender down the line under Yzerman.

My biggest problem with Briere is his lack of cohesion and passive-aggressive decision-making that sways from methodical to knee-jerk. He certainly played a key part in drafting and brilliantly managing the Michkov situation (so far). Although he may have exposed himself if the Flyers ended up trading Gauthier to Montreal in 23 and drafting Reinbacher 5th overall.

He secured Michkov and helped him arrive early which points to a man who is forward-thinking, bold, and opportunistic. However, since then, literally every move he made has been the polar opposite of that...

Not trading Laughton, Konecny, and others during a supposed rebuild. Drafting "safe" players after Michkov in 2023. Not being brazen enough to trade up for a potential franchise player in Demidov. And not seizing the opportunity to pick a potentially elite D prospect in Buium when he fell right into his lap, apparently because him and his scouts already made up their mind that they were drafting a centerman and had tunnel vision when it came to Luchanko. He's also sat on his hands this off-season and hasn't rid the team of vets like Konecny, Laughton, and others who can help play the Flyers out of a top pick in 25 and who do not match the optimal timeline for success.

But this has nothing to do with "Briere being an ex-Flyer." I just don't believe Briere is talented enough or has a comprehensive enough plan for long-term success. But I think reducing his potential failure to "he's part of the Flyers culture" is a lazy, simplistic take. And if anyone believes exiling Bob Clarke, Paul Holmgren, and John LeClair to Siberia would instantly turn Danny Briere into Sam Pollock, they are mistaken.

What we are seeing now is 100% the doing of Briere and Jones. They are either giving the coach too much say in player personnel or they cannot recognize their scouts and talent evaluators are mostly outdated in their thinking. Either way, this is on their shoulders and I believe they have complete freedom to maneuver and repair it... only if they wish.

Hard to credit Clarke for the 80s run since he basically inherited that whole team and pissed it away

 

[freakydallas13]

The team's propaganda machine throwing Hayes under the bus for Cutter was quite shitty.

I was told we shouldn't care about players like Hayes being dumped on by this team because we don't like Hayes as a player. Or something.

 

[renberg]

When it comes to ex-players being employed by the Flyers in key positions, I don't think we can make absolute decisions solely based on their status of player.

For example, we can rip Clarke all we like, but during his first tenure as GM, he did some great things. He helped build an identity and was pivotal in selecting many key pieces who led the mid-80s teams to the Cup vs. Oilers. If the Flyers weren't going up against the greatest offensive machine in history, the Flyers easily could have had 2 Cups with young GM Clarke at the helm.

Holmgren was a mixed bag. Barber was a massive failure as a coach. Berube got nuked and won a Cup with the Blues before being the biggest available coaching ticket for the Leafs who desperately need a strong communicator with stones and perspective behind the bench. Hextall was a massive failure in Philly and Pittsburgh.

My problem with Briere and Jones isn't that they are ex-Flyers. My problem (as it has become apparent to me) is that they either...

A. Lack the long-term vision to build a legitimate contender

B. Are either reluctant to, or don't recognize the need to, push back on ownership if their directive is to "not fully rebuild"

C. Aren't willing to challenge their coach or scouts during the most crucial juncture of a rebuild

Either way, failure to address the above will likely result in more of the same for another 12-15 years, except this time fans have a treat to watch in Michkov before he gets frustrated. Unfortunately, unless Briere drastically reverses course on the Konecny situation (and trades him along with Laughton) before the season, I see the Michkov era in Philly ending like the Bure era in Vancouver -- great excitement and thrills but ultimately always falling short.

But this flaw by Briere cannot be blamed on him "being an ex-Flyer" imho. Fans insist on going completely off the grid and turning over the reigns to a foreign regime that perceptually distances themselves from the Flyers brand. Yeah, well how did that work out for the Leafs when they handed the keys to Shanahan, Dubas, and Keefe?

Hockey is a tight-knit sport with a limited network and recycled jobs. Trying to be ultra-progressive and reinvent the wheel often results in failure like the Leafs under Dubas. Everyone wants their team to headline the next "Moneyball" story and that's not realistic.

Personally, I think the best organizations are ones that are brilliant at capitalizing on the nostalgia and legacy of their past while making the best (and most calculated) decisions at key times. The Avalanche were able to win a Cup and remain a steady powerhouse under GM Joe Sakic. I don't think it's far-fetched to believe the Wings could eventually become a top contender down the line under Yzerman.

My biggest problem with Briere is his lack of cohesion and passive-aggressive decision-making that sways from methodical to knee-jerk. He certainly played a key part in drafting and brilliantly managing the Michkov situation (so far). Although he may have exposed himself if the Flyers ended up trading Gauthier to Montreal in 23 and drafting Reinbacher 5th overall.

He secured Michkov and helped him arrive early which points to a man who is forward-thinking, bold, and opportunistic. However, since then, literally every move he made has been the polar opposite of that...

Not trading Laughton, Konecny, and others during a supposed rebuild. Drafting "safe" players after Michkov in 2023. Not being brazen enough to trade up for a potential franchise player in Demidov. And not seizing the opportunity to pick a potentially elite D prospect in Buium when he fell right into his lap, apparently because him and his scouts already made up their mind that they were drafting a centerman and had tunnel vision when it came to Luchanko. He's also sat on his hands this off-season and hasn't rid the team of vets like Konecny, Laughton, and others who can help play the Flyers out of a top pick in 25 and who do not match the optimal timeline for success.

But this has nothing to do with "Briere being an ex-Flyer." I just don't believe Briere is talented enough or has a comprehensive enough plan for long-term success. But I think reducing his potential failure to "he's part of the Flyers culture" is a lazy, simplistic take. And if anyone believes exiling Bob Clarke, Paul Holmgren, and John LeClair to Siberia would instantly turn Danny Briere into Sam Pollock, they are mistaken.

What we are seeing now is 100% the doing of Briere and Jones. They are either giving the coach too much say in player personnel or they cannot recognize their scouts and talent evaluators are mostly outdated in their thinking. Either way, this is on their shoulders and I believe they have complete freedom to maneuver and repair it... only if they wish.

A lot of good points here. The one I endorse the most is the need for DB to cut Tortorella out of decisions on personnel. The coach only sees an outdated style of play and looks for players that can handle that.

 

[The Last Red]

Flyers did the seemingly/near impossible: they replaced the Fletcher regime with an even more inept one (with Flahr being the biggest holdover).

 

[Philly Fanatik]

When it comes to ex-players being employed by the Flyers in key positions, I don't think we can make absolute decisions solely based on their status of player.

For example, we can rip Clarke all we like, but during his first tenure as GM, he did some great things. He helped build an identity and was pivotal in selecting many key pieces who led the mid-80s teams to the Cup vs. Oilers. If the Flyers weren't going up against the greatest offensive machine in history, the Flyers easily could have had 2 Cups with young GM Clarke at the helm.

Holmgren was a mixed bag. Barber was a massive failure as a coach. Berube got nuked and won a Cup with the Blues before being the biggest available coaching ticket for the Leafs who desperately need a strong communicator with stones and perspective behind the bench. Hextall was a massive failure in Philly and Pittsburgh.

My problem with Briere and Jones isn't that they are ex-Flyers. My problem (as it has become apparent to me) is that they either...

A. Lack the long-term vision to build a legitimate contender

B. Are either reluctant to, or don't recognize the need to, push back on ownership if their directive is to "not fully rebuild"

C. Aren't willing to challenge their coach or scouts during the most crucial juncture of a rebuild

Either way, failure to address the above will likely result in more of the same for another 12-15 years, except this time fans have a treat to watch in Michkov before he gets frustrated. Unfortunately, unless Briere drastically reverses course on the Konecny situation (and trades him along with Laughton) before the season, I see the Michkov era in Philly ending like the Bure era in Vancouver -- great excitement and thrills but ultimately always falling short.

But this flaw by Briere cannot be blamed on him "being an ex-Flyer" imho. Fans insist on going completely off the grid and turning over the reigns to a foreign regime that perceptually distances themselves from the Flyers brand. Yeah, well how did that work out for the Leafs when they handed the keys to Shanahan, Dubas, and Keefe?

Hockey is a tight-knit sport with a limited network and recycled jobs. Trying to be ultra-progressive and reinvent the wheel often results in failure like the Leafs under Dubas. Everyone wants their team to headline the next "Moneyball" story and that's not realistic.

Personally, I think the best organizations are ones that are brilliant at capitalizing on the nostalgia and legacy of their past while making the best (and most calculated) decisions at key times. The Avalanche were able to win a Cup and remain a steady powerhouse under GM Joe Sakic. I don't think it's far-fetched to believe the Wings could eventually become a top contender down the line under Yzerman.

My biggest problem with Briere is his lack of cohesion and passive-aggressive decision-making that sways from methodical to knee-jerk. He certainly played a key part in drafting and brilliantly managing the Michkov situation (so far). Although he may have exposed himself if the Flyers ended up trading Gauthier to Montreal in 23 and drafting Reinbacher 5th overall.

He secured Michkov and helped him arrive early which points to a man who is forward-thinking, bold, and opportunistic. However, since then, literally every move he made has been the polar opposite of that...

Not trading Laughton, Konecny, and others during a supposed rebuild. Drafting "safe" players after Michkov in 2023. Not being brazen enough to trade up for a potential franchise player in Demidov. And not seizing the opportunity to pick a potentially elite D prospect in Buium when he fell right into his lap, apparently because him and his scouts already made up their mind that they were drafting a centerman and had tunnel vision when it came to Luchanko. He's also sat on his hands this off-season and hasn't rid the team of vets like Konecny, Laughton, and others who can help play the Flyers out of a top pick in 25 and who do not match the optimal timeline for success.

But this has nothing to do with "Briere being an ex-Flyer." I just don't believe Briere is talented enough or has a comprehensive enough plan for long-term success. But I think reducing his potential failure to "he's part of the Flyers culture" is a lazy, simplistic take. And if anyone believes exiling Bob Clarke, Paul Holmgren, and John LeClair to Siberia would instantly turn Danny Briere into Sam Pollock, they are mistaken.

What we are seeing now is 100% the doing of Briere and Jones. They are either giving the coach too much say in player personnel or they cannot recognize their scouts and talent evaluators are mostly outdated in their thinking. Either way, this is on their shoulders and I believe they have complete freedom to maneuver and repair it... only if they wish.

Nailed it!

 

[BiggE]

Hard to credit Clarke for the 80s run since he basically inherited that whole team and pissed it away

I’ll give Clarke credit for hiring Keenan and swapping Sittler for Craven. But when you inherit a team that includes Pelle Lindbergh, a top 4 D of Howe, McCrimmon, Marsh & Crossman; forwards like Kerr, Poulin, Sinisalo, Propp and Sutter and an existing prospect pool of Tocchet, Zezel, Pelle Eklund and Hextall, well, shame on you if don’t have success.

 

[BiggE]

The Flyers problem isn’t that they have ex players working for them, the problem is that
A. They let ones long past their prime, aka Clarke, still have influence and
B. They hire ones who are woefully unqualified for the positions that they hold, such as Jones, Briere, Lappy & Dave Brown.
And finally
C. Firing a horrid GM, Cuck, but then promoting his one assistant to the job while keeping the other top assistant and the head coach hired by the aforementioned incompetent GM

They have become one of the worst run franchises not just in the NHL but in North American professional sports. The Flyers are right there with the Pittsburgh Pirates and NY Jets when it comes to garbage franchises.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

The Flyers problem isn’t that they have ex players working for them, the problem is that
A. They let ones long past their prime, aka Clarke, still have influence and
B. They hire ones who are woefully unqualified for the positions that they hold, such as Jones, Briere, Lappy & Dave Brown.
And finally
C. Firing a horrid GM, Cuck, but then promoting his one assistant to the job while keeping the other top assistant and the head coach hired by the aforementioned incompetent GM

They have become one of the worst run franchises not just in the NHL but in North American professional sports. The Flyers are right there with the Pittsburgh Pirates and NY Jets when it comes to garbage franchises.

hey... its a newEraofOrange...

 

[Audible Velvet]

Lindros was just a personal feud between Clarke and the Lindros family. Lindros has featured in so much alumni stuff in recent years that I find it hard to believe that there's any hard feelings between him and the Flyers as an organization.


How was he treated badly after he left? He was granted a trade to a team of his choosing. Not the Flyers fault that it didn't work out for him.

Lindros was just a personal feud between Clarke and the Lindros family. Lindros has featured in so much alumni stuff in recent years that I find it hard to believe that there's any hard feelings between him and the Flyers as an organization.


How was he treated badly after he left? He was granted a trade to a team of his choosing. Not the Flyers fault that it didn't work out for him.

Bernie Parent smeared him between periods when interviewed. It was obvious, as his answer was a wild tangent.
Edited to specify Giroux.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

Lindros was just a personal feud between Clarke and the Lindros family. Lindros has featured in so much alumni stuff in recent years that I find it hard to believe that there's any hard feelings between him and the Flyers as an organization.


How was he treated badly after he left? He was granted a trade to a team of his choosing. Not the Flyers fault that it didn't work out for him.

It took how many years before he'd do anything with them? It almost 14 years? Yeah that would most certainly count

 

[BiggE]

For a team that blathers on and on about being a family and such, they’ve pulled a ton of b.s. moves since the end of the Keith Allen era:
Clarke trading McCrimmon over a minor contract dispute
Stripping the captaincy from Poulin in 1988
Clarke’s handling of Neilson’s cancer diagnosis
The Lindros mess
Clarke mailing it in during the 2006 offseason
The way they jerked Holmgren around before finally making him the permanent GM in 2007
The way they treated Simon Gagne after the 09-10 season
The whole “dry island” thing
Keeping Lavi after 12-13 only to fire him 3 games into the following season
Hextall using an assistant coach to spy on the players
The way AV treated Ghost & Jake
The general disregard of Giroux during his final season
The way the powers that be allow Torts to constantly disrespect players with petty moves like scratching them in their hometown or for way too many consecutive games and allowing the coach’s blatant double standards and playing of favorites.

 

[Tarpongg]

Lindros was just a personal feud between Clarke and the Lindros family. Lindros has featured in so much alumni stuff in recent years that I find it hard to believe that there's any hard feelings between him and the Flyers as an organization.


How was he treated badly after he left? He was granted a trade to a team of his choosing. Not the Flyers fault that it didn't work out for him.

Lindros was upset he wasn’t offered a position in the new Jones/Briere administration, that I know.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Lindros was upset he wasn’t offered a position in the new Jones/Briere administration, that I know.

Maybe it’s for the best he wasn’t hired and brought in to this f***ing dumpster fire.