Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid 3 - Flyers Rumors and Media Mentions: Never Ending Circles

[Boxscore]

Unless they're certain that this team is going to come crashing back down to Earth next season to secure an elite draft pick (Which they can't be certain of) this was a summer without clear progress and leaving too much to fate.

I think we are underestimating a few things:

1. Michkov's talent and the excitement he will bring to the building will be contagious. I would not be surprised if he ends up with 5 GWG this coming season. The crowd alone will provide enough juice and mojo to squeeze out a few extra close-game wins, unfortunately.

2. The potential Drysdale factor. Yes, we're down on him, mainly because of the trade. But, if he is given the keys to PP1, he and Michkov are two potent weapons that can boost an anemic PP.

3. If a well-rested Ersson and the relatively unknown Fedotov are just "pretty good" the Flyers are going to be better than most people think.

4. Tippett, if healthy, is feeling it and will continue to improve into a high-end sniper. He should take another step up, even if it's a small one.

5. The only hope for drafting high and at least leaving the floor with Frondell or Ryabkin (forget about Hagens) is if Briere deals Laughton, Konecny, and depth pieces for young prospects or picks. That, or at least 6 teams in the East have to be significantly better while the Flyers massively underachieve.

 

[Redpath]

I think we are underestimating a few things:

1. Michkov's talent and the excitement he will bring to the building with be contagious. I would not be surprised if he ends up with 5 GWG this coming season. The crowd alone will provide enough juice and mojo to squeeze out a few extra close-game wins, unfortunately.

2. The potential Drysdale factor. Yes, we're down on him, mainly because of the trade. But, if he is given the keys to PP1, he and Michkov are two potent weapons that can boost an anemic PP.

3. If a well-rested Ersson and the relatively unknown Fedotov are just "pretty good" the Flyers are going to be better than most people think.

4. Tippett, if healthy, is feeling it and will continue to improve into a high-end sniper. He should take another step up, even if it's a small one.

5. The only hope for drafting high and at least leaving the floor with Frondell or Ryabkin (forget about Hagens) is if Briere deals Laughton, Konecny, and depth pieces for young prospects or picks. That, or at least 6 teams in the East have to be significantly better while the Flyers massively underachieve.

I am not underestimating any of those things, They're all the reasons I agree with and why I am suggesting that there is no way the Flyers can't be certain that they'll crash back down to earth next season.

They may be hoping that the division improves and the Flyers naturally regress in a full season without Hart and Walker, but again that it just leaving too much to fate.

 

[Boxscore]

I am not underestimating any of those things, They're all the reasons I agree with and why I am suggesting that there is no way the Flyers can't be certain that they'll crash back down to earth next season.

They may be hoping that the division improves and the Flyers naturally regress in a full season without Hart and Walker, but again that it just leaving too much to fate.

Absolutely. I find it hysterical how some of the Philly reporters and podcasters are pushing the narrative that the Flyers are a lock to be abysmal with their current line-up. I disagree completely, unfortunately.

If Konecny wants a penny more than $7.75 over 6 years, he should be traded tonight for a high-end prospect and a 1st in 2025 or 2026. Could he fetch a higher return eventually? Maybe. I don't care. Trade him tonight before he can help the team win a single game.

Laughton should be traded for a decent "high-risk, high-reward" prospect and a good pick. This nonsense that Briere is spitting about "I want above value" is absurd.

The Flyers need to stack the deck with as many 1sts and 2nds in the next two drafts as possible. I don't care if they have three 1sts, get a fourth. Then you have all the necessary ammo to move up over the next couple of years to draft elite talent. It's truly not that difficult to do.

 

[Redpath]

Absolutely. I find it hysterical how some of the Philly reporters and podcasters are pushing the narrative that the Flyers are a lock to be abysmal with their current line-up. I disagree completely, unfortunately.

Which funnily enough was the same thing said last year, too. A lesson learned would be that if we want a top pick, it needs to be earned (Short of lottery luck).

Who knows, maybe the Flyers do significantly regress. It's a very real possibility. But this summer should have shown steps towards making that more of a certainty than a hope. I am already dreading the mid-December clamoring about how Laughton is worth more to the team for a playoff push and how TK (If not extended at that point) is too important to the team to sell as a rental.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

And then double down and resign the piece of crap.

because its what well run rebuilding Org's do..

 

[FlyerNutter]

Yeah, I'm not buying it. Look, guys like Clarke, Barber, Watson, Propp, many of the alumni, and even Holmgren, gave a ton to this organization. They deserve to be respected, applauded for their contributions, and granted access to any events and team facilities any time they wish. Heck, if I ran into Clarke or Holmgren tonight, I'd pick up their dinner. But... there is no way on earth I can be convinced that Bob Clarke has any say whatsoever in the current Flyers player personnel and team building. Last I heard, he doesn't even watch the NHL much these days.

I don't think the Flyers need to redo the locks and put team alumni on a Do Not Fly List in order to be successful. The Blackhawks were winning multiple Cups while honoring Stan Mikita, Robert Marvin, and Tony Spo. The Flyers need to hire "new" people with an eye for talent and insights into how NHL teams win championships in a hard-cap era. Then replicate multiple winning playbooks.

I was the sucker who thought Briere was that new person. That's my fault, not Bob Clarke's.

I can’t agree, respect the opinion - but I think I’m so dead set, and well… full of disgust at those parts of the organization that there is no room for let’s say… forgiveness.

They ruined what was once a truly favourite hobby of mine. A stupid kid listening to them on NHL radio before I found illegal streams or the occasional CBC game.

When I see the same nepotistic hires, no changes or accountability. The same men obviously giving recommendations for hires, etc etc, I want them out. Let them in to games, let them sit in the stands, whatever. But enough of this country club bullshit where any new hire, or person to remove - has to be approved by the Flyer family committee.

 

[Boxscore]

I can’t agree, respect the opinion - but I think I’m so dead set, and well… full of disgust at those parts of the organization that there is no room for let’s say… forgiveness.

They ruined what was once a truly favourite hobby of mine. A stupid kid listening to them on NHL radio before I found illegal streams or the occasional CBC game.

When I see the same nepotistic hires, no changes or accountability. The same men obviously giving recommendations for hires, etc etc, I want them out. Let them in to games, let them sit in the stands, whatever. But enough of this country club bullshit where any new hire, or person to remove - has to be approved by the Flyer family committee.

Oh, I understand the venom, lmao. For 40 years it would take a funeral or wedding for me to miss a Flyers game. I went from that to not caring about the team at all until Briere was named GM. When they drafted Michkov, they started to lure me back in a bit.

And, I get it. I think the organ-I-zation was guilty of the above years ago but not now. Clarke has zero say. Blaming him or Holmgren for Briere not rebuilding properly is misguided anger, imho.

Does Jones truly wield that much power? Screw the title, Jones to me is the "shake hands, kiss babies, gift to gab" figurehead whose talent is uniting people. He's a likable dude who doesn't seem like the type to interfere or trip on power.

I'm trying to figure out if Briere is starting to go rogue like Hextall or is he putting too much emphasis on his pro and amateur scouting staff who are punch drunk over kids they feel "fit the Flyers crest"?

Who is the ultimate brain trust and who has the most influence? If it's really Briere and Jones then they are straight up lying to our faces.

 

[freakydallas13]

As I said. They had negotiations to see what the cost would be and then abandoned them when they confirmed it was too high. No shit. That was decent due diligence. Complain about the real stuff, at least. There’s plenty of things worth criticizing.

There were reports they were were in negotiations as far back as December, maybe even November, before the Drysdale trade. I don't know why this upsets you so much.

For the last time, pay attention children.

This is not a rebuild
They have never rebuilt
And, unless the team is sold and a competent hockey ops dept is hired, they will never, ever, rebuild.

In 06-07 they didn’t finish dead last because they were tanking. Oh no kids, they finished dead last because they were inept.

The minute Pronger went down for the last time, they should have rebuilt. They didn’t.

After the horrible 14-15 season, they should have blown it up and rebuilt, they didn’t.

And after crashing back to earth in 20-21 they should have rebuilt. They didn’t.

Now they might, due to their amazing combination of arrogance and incompetence, end up with a top 5 pick next year. But it won’t be because they are rebuilding. It will happen, if at all, because they are imbeciles.

The Flyers finished as the 4th worst team in the league in 2021/2022, but that was Fletcher doing what he thought was contending.

 

[BiggE]

Yeah, I'm not buying it. Look, guys like Clarke, Barber, Watson, Propp, many of the alumni, and even Holmgren, gave a ton to this organization. They deserve to be respected, applauded for their contributions, and granted access to any events and team facilities any time they wish. Heck, if I ran into Clarke or Holmgren tonight, I'd pick up their dinner. But... there is no way on earth I can be convinced that Bob Clarke has any say whatsoever in the current Flyers player personnel and team building. Last I heard, he doesn't even watch the NHL much these days.

I don't think the Flyers need to redo the locks and put team alumni on a Do Not Fly List in order to be successful. The Blackhawks were winning multiple Cups while honoring Stan Mikita, Robert Marvin, and Tony Spo. The Flyers need to hire "new" people with an eye for talent and insights into how NHL teams win championships in a hard-cap era. Then replicate multiple winning playbooks.

I was the sucker who thought Briere was that new person. That's my fault, not Bob Clarke's.

Clarke has been a mentor to Chuck Fletcher for years, you don’t think he had some say in his hire? I guarantee you he was involved and I’m sure Holmgren, his closest friend, spoke to him before they canned Hextall.

Without Clarke, you don’t get Fletcher, which means they don’t hire AV, or Flahr, or sign Hayes, or acquire Risto or hire Torts and, for all we know, Briere would still be working for the Habs.

Hilferty is a Bullies fanboy. You honestly think he never talks to Clarke, Holmgren and Bill Barber? Look I’m nearly 60 and I loved these guys as players, but the looming shadow of that generation of players has done nothing good for this franchise in the 21st century.

 

[BiggE]

Why they can, and likely will, regress next season:

1. Torts was already starting to lose the room during the last couple months of the season, that is not going to get better

2. Rocky is still running the pp

3. The goaltending is very inexperienced and probably won’t carry the team the way they did the first half of last season

4. The D is woefully thin. After York/Sanheim, which is a 2nd pairing on a top team, your next 5 are a guy who can’t stay healthy, a 3rd pairing guy who will get 2nd pairing usage, an overpaid, often injured 3rd pairing Finn, an inconsistent young guy and a cooked vet.

5. Michkov is absolutely a stud and will be a future star, but he’s not Gretzky, Lemieux or Orr or even Crosby or McDavid. He’s not gonna put this team on his back and carry them at 19 years old.

6. Can Couts play at a high level and stay healthy all year? Maybe, but I certainly wouldn’t put money on it. If he goes down, the centers are likely Frost, Poehling, Laughton and some dude from Latvia who has never played an NHL game. And God forbid if Couts and one of the next 3 centers go down for any length of time, lol.

To sum up for those who don’t want to read all of the above, Torts isn’t going to be able to drive this team out of the gate like he did last year as I think the team will quickly tune him out. The overall talent level is also below league average. They can, and most likely will, regress.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Clarke has been a mentor to Chuck Fletcher for years, you don’t think he had some say in his hire? I guarantee you he was involved and I’m sure Holmgren, his closest friend, spoke to him before they canned Hextall.

Without Clarke, you don’t get Fletcher, which means they don’t hire AV, or Flahr, or sign Hayes, or acquire Risto or hire Torts and, for all we know, Briere would still be working for the Habs.

Hilferty is a Bullies fanboy. You honestly think he never talks to Clarke, Holmgren and Bill Barber? Look I’m nearly 60 and I loved these guys as players, but the looming shadow of that generation of players has done nothing good for this franchise in the 21st century.

Immediately after Torts was hired Clarke gave a snippet to the media about how great it is that Tortorella will be hard on players. He's also given quotes that indicate he talks with management about what's going on. And he shows up to events, most recently Fedotov's deal. Plus the web of connections that governs who the team hires all goes back to him; pretty sure Holmgren revealed he asks him for advice all the time, hence why we got Fletcher. And he seems to be the one full of vitriol for Hextall, and that set the tone on that front.

He's involved. He is aware. The sooner those things can change the sooner the team can have a chance of moving another direction.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Why they can, and likely will, regress next season:

1. Torts was already starting to lose the room during the last couple months of the season, that is not going to get better

2. Rocky is still running the pp

3. The goaltending is very inexperienced and probably won’t carry the team the way they did the first half of last season

4. The D is woefully thin. After York/Sanheim, which is a 2nd pairing on a top team, your next 5 are a guy who can’t stay healthy, a 3rd pairing guy who will get 2nd pairing usage, an overpaid, often injured 3rd pairing Finn, an inconsistent young guy and a cooked vet.

5. Michkov is absolutely a stud and will be a future star, but he’s not Gretzky, Lemieux or Orr or even Crosby or McDavid. He’s not gonna put this team on his back and carry them at 19 years old.

6. Can Couts play at a high level and stay healthy all year? Maybe, but I certainly wouldn’t put money on it. If he goes down, the centers are likely Frost, Poehling, Laughton and some dude from Latvia who has never played an NHL game. And God forbid if Couts and one of the next 3 centers go down for any length of time, lol.

To sum up for those who don’t want to read all of the above, Torts isn’t going to be able to drive this team out of the gate like he did last year as I think the team will quickly tune him out. The overall talent level is also below league average. They can, and most likely will, regress.

I agree with everything said here...but I think we all felt similarly last season. They were picked across the board to finish amongst the cellar dwellers and everyone on this board was hunkering down for a season to forget. Let's hope they live up to these low expectations this year.

 

[Curufinwe]

I was pretty happy with Briere heading into this summer. From his first year on the job, the Michkov pick was a breath of fresh air, Bonk's development looked great, the Provorov trade was a homerun, Hayes was swiftly cleared off the roster before he could further crater, and the maximization of Walker's value and subsequent weaponization of cap space was shrewd (Along with the Hanifin trade, too). I could forgive holding onto Laughton at the deadline after what appear to be a down market. Year 1 felt like a good step in the right direction.

But the continued lack of Laughton trade, the all-but certain mega TK extension that is coming eventually, and most unforgivably the Luchanko selection (And the justification for his selection) have all been deflating for Year 2. Unless they're certain that this team is going to come crashing back down to Earth next season to secure an elite draft pick (Which they can't be certain of) this was a summer without clear progress and leaving too much to fate.

The Lappy extension and subsequent comments justifying it makes me think Homer, Clarke and Lombardi have shoved an orange crayon up his nose.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They adore Lappy. I bet they hope to make him Tortorella 's successor. I may finally find the coach I like less than Eakins.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I agree with everything said here...but I think we all felt similarly last season. They were picked across the board to finish amongst the cellar dwellers and everyone on this board was hunkering down for a season to forget. Let's hope they live up to these low expectations this year.

I remembered that someone did a poll that did not show this at all. After a quick search, I was deeply amused to find you made it.

Season predictions, how bad will it get?

Ok predictions. I think they finish last in the East but probably around 4-5 overall. Fire sale at the deadline that includes Hart and Laughton and probably Konecny and Sanheim as well.

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Someone did your dirty work for you and posted it above. In his first interview Briere said “He looked at us at the draft and told us he was built to be a Flyer, wanted to be a Flyer, and maybe a few months later told us that he didn't want to be a Flyer, he didn't want to play for the Flyers.”

If you would like to believe that “maybe a few months later” is a specific timeline and is specific evidence that Cutter told them he was not going to play for them earlier than anyone has otherwise reported, then again, that’s your prerogative. But Briere then contradicted that timeline in his interview with Jeff Marek where he said very specifically that the desire not to play for the Flyers was only communicated in May of 2023: “It was a Zoom call. His agent requested a Zoom call,” Brière said. “We thought that he was going to tell us that he wanted to turn pro, that he was changing his mind because he had told us that he wanted to go back to college for another year to develop. But he had a really good World Championship, and even ourselves, we thought, ‘OK, he might be more ready than anybody thought.’ And so we were ready to move in that direction. You know, had a contract ready, and when the Zoom started, we were told he was changing his mind, but not to turn pro, rather that he just didn’t want to play for the Flyers and requested to be traded.”

I think Briere handled the situation rather poorly as is, but if he’s going on Marek’s show and lying about when Cutter requested a trade for the first time, I’d say that makes him look even worse.

Either he misspoke nervously in his first interview delivering bad news about the trade (which is understandable) and seems to jive with the nonspecific language he used “maybe a few months later” or he had a day to sleep on it, and decided to conduct an elaborate, detailed lie about the timeline which he then delivered to Marek.

Either way, the two statements do not jive. At all.

And you want to ignore that Jones said he first heard about signing Gauthier being a problem just a few months after the draft, while he was still broadcasting? Both Briere and Jones have said the same thing about the timeline.

This is an issue that was festering months before Jones & Briere were hired.

 

[Beef Invictus]

And you want to ignore that Jones said he first heard about signing Gauthier being a problem just a few months after the draft, while he was still broadcasting? Both Briere and Jones have said the same thing about the timeline.

This is an issue that was festering months before Jones & Briere were hired.

Jones is a known liar.

 

[TheKingPin]

What is the deal with Konecny? No word at all seems more suspicious knowing how cutter and some other moves went down.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Regardless of if Clarke n co are still involved, the "Flyers way" is still very present and visable.

The core belief that has damned this organization is that they greatly overvalue bottom of the line up guys for "intangibles" and loyalty which leads them to overpay in both salary and assets for these players at the expense of true talent.

This belief spans every GM/Coaching regime, including the current one.

 

[WolfOfBroadStreet14]

What is the deal with Konecny? No word at all seems more suspicious knowing how cutter and some other moves went down.

He needs to go before the season if we have any hopes of being worse

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Jones is a known liar.

That's your excuse for everything you don't want to believe: "They're lying."

Convenient.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

And you want to ignore that Jones said he first heard about signing Gauthier being a problem just a few months after the draft, while he was still broadcasting? Both Briere and Jones have said the same thing about the timeline.

This is an issue that was festering months before Jones & Briere were hired.

Just so I’m now crystal clear here… your assertion is that Cutter decided to be a jerk for no reason and said he wouldn’t play for the flyers months before Briere and Jones took their respective positions?

Let’s assume that fact is true for a second… That fact would actually strengthen the Flyers organization’s position that Cutter was just a lying dick that screwed them over for no reason and would give “the new FO” cover “it happened before we were in power and he wouldn’t meet with us to let us share our vision.”

But instead of going with that, you believe that Briere and Jones both concocted an elaborate lie which they’ve told on multiple occasions that the first indication they got that things were going bad with Cutter was in May of 2023? A lie that makes the organization look worse and implies that something happened after Cutter’s college season ended to fracture the relationship?

Well… that’s certainly a thing that you could believe I guess

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Why they can, and likely will, regress next season:

1. Torts was already starting to lose the room during the last couple months of the season, that is not going to get better

2. Rocky is still running the pp

3. The goaltending is very inexperienced and probably won’t carry the team the way they did the first half of last season

4. The D is woefully thin. After York/Sanheim, which is a 2nd pairing on a top team, your next 5 are a guy who can’t stay healthy, a 3rd pairing guy who will get 2nd pairing usage, an overpaid, often injured 3rd pairing Finn, an inconsistent young guy and a cooked vet.

5. Michkov is absolutely a stud and will be a future star, but he’s not Gretzky, Lemieux or Orr or even Crosby or McDavid. He’s not gonna put this team on his back and carry them at 19 years old.

6. Can Couts play at a high level and stay healthy all year? Maybe, but I certainly wouldn’t put money on it. If he goes down, the centers are likely Frost, Poehling, Laughton and some dude from Latvia who has never played an NHL game. And God forbid if Couts and one of the next 3 centers go down for any length of time, lol.

To sum up for those who don’t want to read all of the above, Torts isn’t going to be able to drive this team out of the gate like he did last year as I think the team will quickly tune him out. The overall talent level is also below league average. They can, and most likely will, regress.

Torts was losing the room the last couple months of the season?

Their team metrics were mostly terrific, but got sunk by horrible league-worst goaltending on that late-season skid.

Couturier got pissed about being scratched? Sure. But he was struggling mightily, and now we know why -- he had a sports hernia.

Last 33 games he played: 1 goal, 7 assists. 8 points. -22.

That's shockingly bad, & I'm a Couturier fan.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Jones was still broadcasting in May of '23 and May of '23 is "months after the draft."

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

That's your excuse for everything you don't want to believe: "They're lying."

Convenient.

You’re now saying Briere and Jones aren’t liars? You just admitted you think Briere is a liar. You believe that Cutter Gauthier told the Flyers months after he was drafted that he no longer wanted to play for the Flyers, but Briere went on Jeff Marek’s podcast and said Gauthier only told them he didn’t want to be a Flyer in May of 2023. Briere even claims to have been so blindsided by the news that he had a contract prepared and ready to go, thinking that would be the outcome of the meeting (Cutter signing a contract to become a flyer).

Both of those things can’t be true. So either you’re wrong or Briere is a liar… which is it?