Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid 3 - Flyers Rumors and Media Mentions: Never Ending Circles

[Ghosts Beer]

From what most of the beats have said...they so not invision a future without TK. Maube youre right and they decide to trade him if he wont budge...but it seems like theyll cave before he does.

Id prefer this not be a loser organization that treats kids like dogs and deters young talent from wanting to come here.

Not defending how Cutter handled the situation...but it still annoys me that the Flyers cant hold up a mirror and see why he mightve not wanted to play here.

The fact that he wanted out and Michkovs camps biggest sticking point was he cant go to the AHL says a lot to me. These kids know their value and know its total BS to tell kids who already are more talented than half the roster that they have to "earn" a spot and might get held back bc some scrub got into fights and blocked shots in camp so they are more deserving of a roster spot. Everyone knows thats how thw Flyers value players and its made them a laughing stock.

Cutter is an incredibly talented athlete. Selfish, narcissistic person.

If you don't want to play for a team, you tell them before they draft you 5th overall. You don't say you were "born to be a Flyer" and then tell the team you aren't signing a few months later.

I have no doubt he'll be a pretty big goal scorer in the NHL. Many on this board hated the pick. Not because they thought he wouldn't sign, but because they thought he wasn't that good. Seems like many of the the same people who didn't like the pick hated the trade. Ironic.

Michkov essentially forced his way here in the draft and then got out of his contract two years early to come here, so I don't want to read the implication that players don't want to play in Philly. Hathaway just extended at basically no raise. Erik Johnson extended for a mere $1M and raved about how much he liked it here.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Just curious, do you have proof of this?

None. Briere and Jones, who have openly lied before, are to be trusted uncritically in this matter where they have a shitload of personal interest in lying. Duh.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Just curious, do you have proof of this?

Yes. Multiple podcast interviews. Are you a fan of the Flyers? How would you not have heard these interviews?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Ah yes. The podcasts where Flyers sources lied and pretended they were blameless and were blindsided, whereas sources from Cutter's side contradict their narrative and sound far more likely.

Weird how the thing being selectively omitted is that the whole thing went south when the Flyers broke a promise to the player and cost him almost a million dollars.

 

[Cody Webster]

Yes. Multiple podcast interviews. Are you a fan of the Flyers? How would you not have heard these interviews?

Ok, so nothing. Thanks for confirming

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Agree 100%. Konecny only has leverage because he knows the Flyers are likely to cave since they haven't already traded him. There's no way he deserves Reinhart money and any reasonable fan, or hockey person, knows this.

If Konecny doesn't give the Flyers a fair deal, let alone a hometown discount, he should be traded immediately. End of story. They already have Couturier's contract on the books that will likely be an albatross in the coming years. They cannot be saddled with another simply because TK is a "Torts player." This is the kind of thinking that hampered the Flyers for years.

Every single decision made today should revolve around surrounding Michkov with the cheapest, youngest, and most elite talent possible to perfectly align with his rise to stardom and the Flyers plan to spend on world-class targets. You can't do that by reaching in the draft and overpaying for "good-to-very-good" players.

Is it not a red flag at all if TK wants to stay here?

Flyers 100% at fault for not signing Cutter.

 

[Curufinwe]

Just look at some of the trash who were playing forward for the Flyers after his college season ended in 2023. It's not hard to imagine why the Gauthier camp were pissed off Briere wouldn't sign him and play him 10 games. Brendan Lemieux played 16 out of 16 times!

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[pooch]

I think it's a bit early to say Drysdale is a bust, but he's trending the wrong way and needs a good showing this season.

 

[Boxscore]

This gushing all over Gauthier may be a tad off target. Let's let him play in the show for a while before assigning star status to him.

True, none of us know for a fact how Gauthier will turn out. But here's what we do know:

1. Gauthier was having an eye-popping college season and was skyrocketing from a "great prospect" to an "elite, world-class" one.

2. Gauthier was 20 years old and whichever team acquired him was getting cheap talent and cost certainty on an initial deal.

3. The player the Flyers acquired was coming off a severe injury. After Patrick and Ellis, these concerns seemed to be completely ignored, which was baffling.

4. Shortly after, the Sabres acquired Bowen Byram for Casey Mittelstadt... an average 25-year-old center whose stats eerily resemble those of Morgan Frost. Are we to believe that Gauthier doesn't/didn't hold more trade value than a 25-year-old Mittelstadt or Frost?

5. The Flyers offered Montreal Gauthier for the 5th overall, reportedly to take David Reinbacher (one of the earliest "reaches" in the draft).

6. Gauthier's value at the time of the trade was likely higher or at the very least equal to that of Will Smith or Ryan Leonard. If the Sharks or Caps were to dangle either of those kids, don't we "think" the return would be higher than Jamie Drysdale?

The above are known facts, or highly likely based on evidence, reporting, and fair evaluation. As for speculating on Gauthier's impact, I think it's fair to say the Ducks are going to give him every chance to succeed and even played him with Leo Carlsson during his cup of coffee with the big club.

And, while, I'm willing to cut Briere some slack on the trade, the above cannot be ignored. Especially after he made other "suspect" choices post-trade, such as holding onto Laughton and Konecny during a major rebuild, and also passing on Zeev Buium for a player whose average draft position was 31, based on all reputable scouts and services. With each decision, it's honestly harder to buy into the method behind Briere's madness. Which is awful to say since he was one of my all-time favorite Flyers.

Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but there seems to have been a "bait and switch" immediately after the Michkov pick. After making a homerun selection that we all suspect previous Flyers brass wouldn't have made, Briere pulled a 180 and resorted back to the Flyers past ways... a "faux rebuild" with no true vision or commitment to sucking bad enough to draft Top-3 elite talent (then passing on one at 12 when he miraculously falls into your lap)... or holding onto vets when their trade value is at their highest points... or drafting "safe and reliable" instead of swinging for home runs.

Looking at the Cutter for Drysdale trade in a bubble, I can see the defense. But when combined with other head-scratchers, the Teflon starts to fade a little.

 

[BiggE]

we have any idea what TK's camp is asking for?

A trade to Vegas, TB or Florida?

 

[freakydallas13]

It's really funny that we think either a) Cutter would have waited 3 years without a contract and\or b) that his value was going to diminish over that time. It doesn't matter what the other GM's know. It's a market for a high end ELC player

It's another in the (quickly) growing list of times Briere has shown he has zero impulse control.

HAD to trade Hayes last summer.
HAD to buy out TDA last summer.
HAD to trade Gauthier last year despite being under control for 3 more years.
HAD to resign Hathaway one the first day it was possible to do so, despite being under contract for another year.

Etc.

He has shown he has zero patience to take his time and explore value, he just goes for instant gratification.

 

[BiggE]

It's been a decade since the Hextall-era started and when the Flyers started to slow cook prospects and have them "earn it" to the detriment of this team (at least blatantly). Hextall and Fletcher never filled out the bottom of the roster with quality players to have this mindset. Every player and agent could see how this team handles prospects, how it isn't based on merit but some kind of weird self-imposed philosophy this team decided to have out of nowhere.

I have no clue why this philosophy came about and why it's been the one thing that has stuck around. The Holmgren era Flyers were full of youth, Sbisa played his D+1 year for part of the season as a d-man, Giroux was out there to close the game in game 7 against Boston as a 22 year old for f*ck's sake. This current version of the Flyers would never.

They used to throw 20 year old rookies, especially forwards, into the lineup all the time:
Propp
Zezel
Tocchet
D Smith
Mellanby
Renberg
Zubrus
Gagne
Williams
Richards
Carter

Now apparently they need seasoning and also to pattern their games after such luminaries as Laughton, Cates & Hathaway.

 

[BiggE]

The Flyers organization needs a proctologist in the worst way. Their heads have been buried up their asses for years.

 

[renberg]

Propp
Zezel
Tocchet
D Smith
Mellanby
Renberg
Zubrus
Gagne
Williams
Richards
Carter

None of these guys had the required Tortorella injection of culture in order to learn how to play hockey the right way. If they had, they’d have been so much better

 

[Rebels57]

So TK?

No news at all. They can’t want to start the year without a deal. They already resigned Hathaway! If there was something close or in place it would already be done.

Priority #1 always comes before #2

 

[Rebels57]

For better or worse, Briere has placed his early legacy on the back of three players:

Bonk
Drysdale
Luchanko

... considering the Flyers could have easily surrounded Michkov with elite talent in Perreault, Gauthier, and Buium. I don't blame Danny for the Gauthier situation, based on what we know of how it went down. However, after seeing that Buffalo was able to turn Casey Mittelstadt into Bowen Byram, you'd have to think Gauthier (during a lights-out season) could have fetched a more potent return than the Flyers received.

And, if you believe the public sources that Briere wanted to trade Gauthier to Montreal last year to draft Reinbacher, it makes you wonder if the Flyers will be constantly repeating past mistakes under Briere. The Flyers, as a top-to-bottom organization, still seem to overvalue "safe" Canadian kids who "play the game the right way" and overvalue elite talent with flashy toolkits.

Michkov was the exception to the ^ rule which had me thinking Briere and Jones were truly building the Flyers differently. However, after that pick, it seems they resorted back to their old ways -- opting for safe and solid as opposed to eye-popping spectacular.

Unfortunately, in 4 years or so, I fully suspect Briere will look like a lunatic for passing on Buium for Luchanko. It will be worse than Hextall passing on Makar or Heiskanen for Patrick since Patrick was the Canadian media darling for 18 months and Luchanko was a reach.

But I still cannot fathom how Briere could pass on a talent like Buium (who fell right into his lap) after he and Jones rambled on about "building from an elite back-end..."

I spoke to an OHL scout who has watched Luchanko up close. He shared the good and the bad...

THE GOOD:
1. Great speed.
2. One of the youngest players in the draft
3. Extremely high IQ and hockey sense
4. Brilliant in-tight passer (he said he would have more assists if Guelph had better finishers)
5. He's a bull, very strong and sturdy

THE BAD:
1. Not a very good goal scorer and is a reluctant shooter
2. Below 50% on draws and doesn't have good instincts in the dot
3. Isn't sure if he will play C in the NHL
4. If he does ^ he will be a "good 2C" or a "great 3C"

But he also said that passing on Buium for him could set the Flyers back quite a bit from reaching "serious contender status" when they feel they are ready. He also said that Helenius projects to be a better (and more dynamic) centerman at the NHL level. If his eyes, the Flyers passed on a potential elite 1D and very good 1C or elite 2C for a very good forward who "could be a nice second-line center if everything goes perfectly. But not the cornerstone pivot you want to pair with Michkov for a decade."

I'm also curious about how Briere proceeds with trades. So far, the jury is still out on the Gauthier trade, but why is Danny so reluctant to deal Laughton, when there has been tons of smoke mentioning very solid possible returns? Is he going to "sell high" on Konecny or cave and overpay him in salary and term? Is he going to make a gutsy trade for a potential gamebreaker like Necas or Ehlers so Tippett and Michkov don't have to carry the full load?

Briere and Jones said all the right things. They also did some very nice things early on, such as being extremely transparent and putting the double logo back at center ice the way Mr. Snider liked it. I certainly feel these guys want to do well and right the ship, but I'm worried there are still some old philosophies and reflexes starting to kick in that are reminiscent of past, failed eras.

The good news is, this team is going to suck in 24-25 with its shoddy goaltending, lackluster defense, abomination of a Powerplay, and the Torts effect already wearing off. They will very likely fall in that 5-10 range in the draft, prior to the lottery of course. They'll have another shot at a pivot with elite potential. They just have to not f*** it up again. Tall order.

I think it's a bit early to say Drysdale is a bust, but he's trending the wrong way and needs a good showing this season.

The most important ability is availability, and Drysdale doesn't possess that.

Braindead trade, but that's what happens when you let an NHLer lifer that was exiled from the Ducks in Bob Murray influence a critical decision.

 

[LegionOfGloom]

I've never understood why the Flyers had to deal Cutter before his trade request became public (the justification for a crappy return). The only rationale I heard was that the fanbase would never forgive him if it came out. But that only matters if he changed his mind and decided to sign. Once you decided to trade him, that's completely irrelevant and doesn't change what teams were willing to offer since more than one team was introduced. Just another Briere self-induced error.

By the way, two years into a "rebuild" and the only player under 30 that Briere has signed is Poehling. He has already extended two players over 30 (Seeler and Hathaway) for a combined six years. Make it make sense.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The issue is Drysdale is 22 years old & you still have no idea what exactly he is. Starting in the NHL too early & injuries for sure but he’s largely been god awful in the NHL to this point. 23 years old is typically the start of your athletic prime & the only tangible thing Drysdale has to hang his hat on this point is his draft position. Even his raw production is hollow because it’s mostly a product of playing a lot of fruitful minutes/usage to this point. So it was good for his bottom line but not his team(s) as they often got killed with him on the ice opposed to off it.

 

[Curufinwe]

Just saw some weird discussion about the lineup on twitter from Meltzer where he appears not to remember that Laughton played as much wing as center last season, and Cates played much more wing than center.

 

[orangey]

If TK wants 10 he will get close to it.

Briere has zero leverage. He has backed himself into a corner bc he has decided they have to sign TK. TK camp knows they will never trade him...so hes either gonna get Briere to cave with a fat contract or walk as a UFA.

Briere shouldve been shopping him aggressively this whole time so that media was reporting on it...that way if TK really wants to stay, hed panic and lower his asking price. And hey, maybe a team overpays too.

Once again, the Flyers loyalty above all hurts them. Agents know the Flyers are still the biggest suckers in the league.

Yep. Maybe if they traded a single player (who wasn't already run out of town by the coach or just didn't want to be here) as part of an actual rebuild, the perception would be more towards compromise, but at this point it is clear he can ask for whatever and probably get it from this bunch of reactionary clowns.

If I was him I would demand 12+. Everyone knows they desperately have to just make the playoffs every year and that's the only 'plan' that they are capable of formulating. At this point the are completely desperate for that additional money and as validation for their 'plan' so he will assuredly get whatever he desires. They will bend over like they always do.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Cutter is an incredibly talented athlete. Selfish, narcissistic person.

If you don't want to play for a team, you tell them before they draft you 5th overall. You don't say you were "born to be a Flyer" and then tell the team you aren't signing a few months later.

I have no doubt he'll be a pretty big goal scorer in the NHL. Many on this board hated the pick. Not because they thought he wouldn't sign, but because they thought he wasn't that good. Seems like many of the the same people who didn't like the pick hated the trade. Ironic.

Michkov essentially forced his way here in the draft and then got out of his contract two years early to come here, so I don't want to read the implication that players don't want to play in Philly. Hathaway just extended at basically no raise. Erik Johnson extended for a mere $1M and raved about how much he liked it here.

Philly is a great place to play if youre a vet. Great area to raise a family, shorter travel, an org that takes care of you.

But if youre a top prospect who expresses a desire to sign and play for a team that deaperately needs talent and are told "hold your horses. You have a earn a spot in camp!"...thats a turn off.

If you know youre talented enough to be in the NHL... a team like the Flyers who is gonna put you through hell with demotions, benchings, scratches...and no evidence that their methods help develop players...i can see why hed not wanna be here.

Again...he handled it wrong, but I dont think his reasons for not wanting to be here werent valid.

 

[mr figgles]

A trade to Vegas, TB or Florida?

Would prefer Buffalo, Detroit, or Ottawa for a 1st

 

[Magua]

It's really funny that we think either a) Cutter would have waited 3 years without a contract and\or b) that his value was going to diminish over that time. It doesn't matter what the other GM's know. It's a market for a high end ELC player

Some of us spent the days after the trade pissing into the wind by saying everything the Flyers told us about the Gauthier trade made no sense. But we had the Flyers Ministry of Propaganda working overtime.

A media leak means nothing for value when 18-20 teams are already currently negotiating (timely media leaks can help trades too!). Gauthier's trade value was not going to diminish between January and June -- they waited a whopping 3 days between Gauthier's WJC and the trade. Waiting 2 more years to walk was never a threat for a player who was desperate to turn pro after his freshman year. Having 2/3 of the NHL on his trade list is evidence of that. It was not a coup to acquire Drysdale (already injured) when and how they did, simply because Bob Murray gave a thumbs up to a player in whom he had a vested interest.

As we've seen time and again, the Flyers believe in fit as a decider at the amateur level. We're beyond coincidence, even if Briere didn't foolishly admit it. They wanted a RHD and they wanted one immediately, so they got the one that was previously drafted the highest to feel better about trading an in-demand 5th overall 18 months post-draft. Shame on anyone for not being skeptical there wasn't a better value offer on January 8th (even from the Ducks, they likely turned down Zellweger+better picks), let alone in the months to come.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

I can remember two Gauthier trade rumors

1. Cutter to MTL at the 2023 draft for pick 5 - denied by MTL - Flyers would have taken Reinbacher at 5 and Michkov at 7

2. Cutter to Minny for a deal involving Rossi - it sounds like the Flyers said no?

 

[freakydallas13]

I can remember two Gauthier trade rumors

1. Cutter to MTL at the 2023 draft for pick 5 - denied by MTL - Flyers would have taken Reinbacher at 5 and Michkov at 7

2. Cutter to Minny for a deal involving Rossi - it sounds like the Flyers said no?

The idea the Flyers would have drafted Reinbacher ahead of Michkov is still hilarious to me. Like, Michkov is the sole reason to have any hope at all in this org's decision making process, and the Flyers still wanted BIG more than they did Matvei.