Therrien - New Season Edition

[Lafleurs Guy]

Small sample size

It's one thing to go 5-0, it's another to play well while doing it. We got outplayed by the Leafs but since then we've been at least even with the teams we've faced. That's a hell of a lot better than last year. The record doesn't matter as much as how we've played. So props to the coaching stuff for (seemingly) doing away with the dump and chase. I just hope it stays that way.

 

[Bouboumaster]

What the **** is going on with Therrien?! Oo

 

[Rapala]

What the **** is going on with Therrien?! Oo

Eller told him off over the summer.

 

[Kriss E]

No debate on the change of tactics in zone entries - which is the major change I see. Less dump, much more possession when entering the zone.

The rest - I don't much change in the system - I see more changes in personnel. What helps is that we are a speedier stronger team which does give the coaches more options. Petry is a possession machine. Emelin is playing lights out. DSP, Flynn, Mitchell are contributing with offensive zone presence. DD's ice time is where it should be.

Well, as you said, there was a major change in zone entries. The constant dumping of pucks was the primary criticism of Therrien last year. So, great job on them to change it. Our roster has always been labeled as a speedy one except dumping the puck killed it. Now that we are possessing the puck more, that speed of ours can be much better exploited.

The fourth line is a major component. They've tried to get a strong 4th line that can keep up with very tough defensive assignments on top of chipping in some offensive pressure for years. So far so good, hopefully that will stick. I was sure DSP had scored on that redirect but Henrik showed why he's the King.
The slight knock I would have is on benching Semin for a few shifts here and there to put either Flynn or DSP with Galch-Eller. I'm not really a fan of that. Semin will make mistakes but you need to stick with him. But, experiments will be tried over an 82 game season.
Otherwise though, great job thus far from the coaching staff. Even on the PP despite it not being effective, I'm liking the movement whenever we get settled in. If that starts producing we could end up being quite powerful up front.

 

[Compile]

Until the PP is fixed, I will say this abouth Therrien...
Same same but different.

 

[Miller Time]

lol.... Yeah no.

Hilarious that you came to that conclusion after reading that article. Especially since Basu tried his best to spin it in a way to save face after being so critical of MT last year.

You need skill to play a puck possession game. Beaulieu, Galchenyuk improving, the addition of Petry and shoring up that 4th line so it can now play against just about anyone have been game changers. The more tools a coach have the more he can do with his roster. MB gave MT some more tools and you see more performance from the team.

And if MT was an idiot before, he didn't suddenly become intelligent and start coaching well. You guys should try to stay consistent.

this is the kind of post that will look very foolish if/when the team runs into struggles this year...

nothing is black and white.

most criticism of MT has always been nuanced, not that he is purely an "idiot". Mediocre or average is what i recall seeing him described as more often than not.

point i made multiple times is that a superior coach would have gotten more out of guys like beaulieu/galch/eller/sekac et., and that MT's usage of them and managing of the players on the roster was less than stellar.

that he has now adapted can be seen as a result of the players now being ready, validating his approach, but can just as easily be seen as the result of him finally doing what should have/could have been done much sooner... validating the notion that he is mediocre.

blind squirrels do eventually find nuts, so i'd be wary of using a 5-game hot streak to hold up as "proof" that he's a great coach... heck, he made the finals with Pitt, only to be fired a year later.


5-0 feels great. team is playing pretty well. Price continues to be a hart-worthy impact player. Let's hold off on the jack adams celebration until the team has undergone some adversity this year, no?

 

[Price is Wright]

most criticism of MT has always been nuanced, not that he is purely an "idiot".

You have to be kidding me.

He's insulted on almost every page of every thread as an idiot.

 

[TheBlindFan]

You have to be kidding me.

He's insulted on almost every page of every thread as an idiot.

Very true... can't hide it, the thousand has post out there.

it's just the start of the season, it's doesn't give of the cup, not ever insuring the make the playoff...

BUT, the teams is great! 5-0... in the top team in THE NHL year after year... you don't have to give credit to the coaches, but in my opinion the result are there...

Go Habs go!

 

[Miller Time]

You have to be kidding me.

He's insulted on almost every page of every thread as an idiot.

most "reasonable"?

yes, there is a lot of hyperbole and extreme opionions... but there are also a lot of posters (on either side of the argument) that resist the simple "hate/suck, love/worship" narratives.

amongst that selection of posters, much of the criticism levied on therrien is as valid today as it was before we won 5 games in a row, and didn't center on the notion that the man/coach was a complete idiot incapable of any learning/adapting/improvement.

 

[TheBlindFan]

most "reasonable"?

yes, there is a lot of hyperbole and extreme opionions... but there are also a lot of posters (on either side of the argument) that resist the simple "hate/suck, love/worship" narratives.

amongst that selection of posters, much of the criticism levied on therrien is as valid today as it was before we won 5 games in a row, and didn't center on the notion that the man/coach was a complete idiot incapable of any learning/adapting/improvement.

No it's not, the critic is deep is will documented in HF.

Cannot managed the line
Cannot make the rookies developped
have favorite (boullion, DD, etc.)
Dump and chase
We wou't win anything with him

Endless bad things on therrien are sayed here, and idot & dumb are clearly one of them.

don't ask me to quote some, i'm a daily reader since more then 10 years, do it your self, my statement are true base on what is posted here.

 

[BlackStar]

Therrien is doing an admirable job so far, to say the least.

However, I am a little concerned about the Plekanec line taking whopping 70% of their faceoffs on the defensive zone (excluding last night's game). Their production is remarkable so far this season considering where they take most of their faceoffs.

In strike contrast, the Galchenyuk line starts more than 70% of their play on the offensive zone. I understand the need to protect Galchenyuk defensively for some time, however, that may be a too much protection. A 60-40 offensive zone starts split between the two lines would be a better solution, in my opinion.

Because as well all the lines have played so far, we need to give our first line more opportunities to score. Plekanec and Pacioretty are excellent two way players and will still manage to create offensive even with extremely difficult defensive assignments. Gallagher on the other hand isn't yet as solid as they are, he would benefit from a little more offensive opportunities 5 on 5.

By the way, our 4th line is starting an insanely 90% of their play from the defensive zone, and yet, they produce roughly as many scoring chances as their opposing lines. That is ridiculous.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Therrien coming out strong for the cup

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

No it's not, the critic is deep is will documented in HF.

Cannot managed the line
Cannot make the rookies developped
have favorite (boullion, DD, etc.)
Dump and chase
We wou't win anything with him

Endless bad things on therrien are sayed here, and idot & dumb are clearly one of them.

don't ask me to quote some, i'm a daily reader since more then 10 years, do it your self, my statement are true base on what is posted here.

And those criticisms were valid.

Good job in 2013, horrible afterwards. What has been repeatedly said is that if he goes back to the system we had in 2013, then we'll be successful. Hopefully that's what we're seeing now.

I didn't see the chip 'n chase last night did you? That's a GOOD thing. And if Therrien has abandoned that terrible system that alone is a huge step for us.

As for line management, DD is on the 3rd line. He's in a lesser role (still used too much) but at least he's not glued to Max. Moreover, Galchenyuk is finally at center... so roster mgmt has been better so far as well.

I give credit when it's due. The man has made changes. They are changes that have been long called for. I don't know what made him change and I don't really care. If we are playing more aggressively this year then we will become serious contenders with the roster we have. This team has always been good, it's just been managed poorly. If we're finally going to smarten up on that front then we'll have a very serious shot at the cup.

It's a big difference from last year when we were winning but winning games that we didn't deserve. Now we're actually competing. So good on the coach for making the change.

 

[DangerDave]

Well, as you said, there was a major change in zone entries. The constant dumping of pucks was the primary criticism of Therrien last year. So, great job on them to change it. Our roster has always been labeled as a speedy one except dumping the puck killed it. Now that we are possessing the puck more, that speed of ours can be much better exploited.

The fourth line is a major component. They've tried to get a strong 4th line that can keep up with very tough defensive assignments on top of chipping in some offensive pressure for years. So far so good, hopefully that will stick. I was sure DSP had scored on that redirect but Henrik showed why he's the King.
The slight knock I would have is on benching Semin for a few shifts here and there to put either Flynn or DSP with Galch-Eller. I'm not really a fan of that. Semin will make mistakes but you need to stick with him. But, experiments will be tried over an 82 game season.
Otherwise though, great job thus far from the coaching staff. Even on the PP despite it not being effective, I'm liking the movement whenever we get settled in. If that starts producing we could end up being quite powerful up front.

You pretty much nailed it. Especially the point about dumping the puck.

 

[DenverHabsFan]

I don't know what happened this summer but I'm loving every minute of this.

Seriously, do MT and MB read this board? It's like everything we've been complaining about has been addressed. Chucky at C... check! DD on the third line... check! Aggressive, puck possession strategy... check! Our D joining the rush... check!

MB started the summer by saying Chucky might never play at C and verbally assaulting a journalist for suggesting the team played a passive, dump and chase system that stifles offense. He then later confirms Chucky at C and says they talked to DD about a different role. What was it? Compromising pictures?

The real test will come when the team loses 3-4 in a row. Let's hope they don't panic and revert back to last year's strategies. They also have to fix that damn PP. What's so difficult about collapsing low and shooting the darn puck instead of staying on the perimeter and constantly passing the puck near the blue line?

 

[Seb]

No idea what changed in his mind, but this season the Habs aren't playing the stupid dump and chase anymore and are much more aggressive on the forecheck. Liking it so far.

 

[Hoople]

No it's not, the critic is deep is will documented in HF.

Cannot managed the line
Cannot make the rookies developped
have favorite (boullion, DD, etc.)
Dump and chase
We wou't win anything with him

Endless bad things on therrien are sayed here, and idot & dumb are clearly one of them.

don't ask me to quote some, i'm a daily reader since more then 10 years, do it your self, my statement are true base on what is posted here.

Great post.

Therrien is not the perfect coach. Expecting perfection is a bar that can never be reached.

I won't even speculate why Therrien is vilified the way he is here. All I will say is look around the League and we could be doing much worse with regard to coaching.

Flash is looking like a great signing and combining him with DD is making Therrien look good b

 

[Tourist]

Therrien didn't abandon his gameplans from last seasons, that's ridiculous. He didn't spend his summer reading hfboard experts and learn all of a sudden that to be a good coach all he needed to do was tell the guys to stop dumping and chasing and make better puck possession plays.

I would agree that we do look more aggressive, especially with the defensemen supporting the forwards more when we attack. But outside of that I don't see how the "strategies" have changed.

What has changed is the quality of the roster. Petry for a full year makes a huge difference. Our advanced stats already started to improve when we got him last year and he hadn't even fully adapted yet. Not only he makes good plays all over the ice, he helps his partner play much better, and pushes a guy like Gilbert down the lineup. Beaulieu is slowly turning into a mini Petry himself which in turn makes the third pair much better. These changes alone help tremendously in advanced stats battle, regardless of the gameplan.

Another major improvement is the bottom 6. The 4th line is night and day compared to last year. These guys may only play around 10-12 minutes, but going from spending 10-12 minutes chasing the play, doing nothing productive and handing momentum on a silver platter to the opponent to spending those same minutes pushing the play up the ice with speed, forechecking like demons, hitting everything in sight and generally helping the team build momentum has a big impact on the advanced stats sheet.

Then you have Galchenyuk who looks like a man compared to last year.

I think Therrien is the same old Therrien. The roster looks much better so far. He has more tools to work with. If the guys stay motivated and healthy, and there is no major drop off in production from our key players, we will win more games that last year for sure.

 

[Habnot]

Well, as you said, there was a major change in zone entries. The constant dumping of pucks was the primary criticism of Therrien last year. So, great job on them to change it. Our roster has always been labeled as a speedy one except dumping the puck killed it. Now that we are possessing the puck more, that speed of ours can be much better exploited.

The fourth line is a major component. They've tried to get a strong 4th line that can keep up with very tough defensive assignments on top of chipping in some offensive pressure for years. So far so good, hopefully that will stick. I was sure DSP had scored on that redirect but Henrik showed why he's the King.
The slight knock I would have is on benching Semin for a few shifts here and there to put either Flynn or DSP with Galch-Eller. I'm not really a fan of that. Semin will make mistakes but you need to stick with him. But, experiments will be tried over an 82 game season.
Otherwise though, great job thus far from the coaching staff. Even on the PP despite it not being effective, I'm liking the movement whenever we get settled in. If that starts producing we could end up being quite powerful up front.

I am concerned about Semin and it's not about effort. he just seems out of shape/slow. He's a step behind Galch and Eller.

 

[Rapala]

I am concerned about Semin and it's not about effort. he just seems out of shape/slow. He's a step behind Galch and Eller.

He carries about 15lbs he's never going to use.

 

[Miller Time]

Great post.

Therrien is not the perfect coach. Expecting perfection is a bar that can never be reached.

I won't even speculate why Therrien is vilified the way he is here. All I will say is look around the League and we could be doing much worse with regard to coaching.

Flash is looking like a great signing and combining him with DD is making Therrien look good b

yeah, and we could be doing much worse than Semin in our top-6... or Desharnais in our top-9... or Plekanec as our #1 C...

you just hit the nail on the head of what many of the so-called Therrien "haters" have been saying all along...

He isn't, by any means, the "worst" coach in the league... Just not one of the elite coaches.

in a position that has no restrictions beyond availability of an upgrade, why would any franchise committed to winning settle for anything short of the absolute best coach they can attract? "good enough" = mediocre.

good enough can certainly win a cup, especially with a generational talent in nets. that's no reason to be satisfied with such an important role.

 

[Kriss E]

I am concerned about Semin and it's not about effort. he just seems out of shape/slow. He's a step behind Galch and Eller.

He is behind them, but once they're in the offensive zone, that doesn't really matter anymore. Considering the way they've been used, I think it's fine. I mean so far..
Of course if by game 20 he only has 4-5 pts..well, I'm pretty sure he'll be a healthy scratch by then.
His speed isn't going to improve on any other line and his current line is the one getting the most offensive zone time with the least defensive time. In other words, it wouldn't be better for him on another line.

Eller-Galch will need to carry him a bit in terms of speed, but once they're in the offensive zone, that trio is clicking.

It's somewhat similar to DD-Floosh-Weise although not in terms of speed but more so talent. It's pretty clear that Weise is a notch under both DD-Floosh in terms of offensive abilities. They're are similar in terms of speed, but DD-Floosh need to carry Weise more in terms of talent. They still make up a pretty good 3rd line.

 

[jaffy27]

And those criticisms were valid.

Good job in 2013, horrible afterwards. What has been repeatedly said is that if he goes back to the system we had in 2013, then we'll be successful. Hopefully that's what we're seeing now.

I didn't see the chip 'n chase last night did you? That's a GOOD thing. And if Therrien has abandoned that terrible system that alone is a huge step for us.

As for line management, DD is on the 3rd line. He's in a lesser role (still used too much) but at least he's not glued to Max. Moreover, Galchenyuk is finally at center... so roster mgmt has been better so far as well.

I give credit when it's due. The man has made changes. They are changes that have been long called for. I don't know what made him change and I don't really care. If we are playing more aggressively this year then we will become serious contenders with the roster we have. This team has always been good, it's just been managed poorly. If we're finally going to smarten up on that front then we'll have a very serious shot at the cup.

It's a big difference from last year when we were winning but winning games that we didn't deserve. Now we're actually competing. So good on the coach for making the change.

Gone are PAP (slow and heartless)
Prust (slow with minimal talent)
Bournival (hands of cement) like the kid, don't like the player
Gonchar (old and slow)
Weaver (minimal talent and old)
Malhotra (old and talentless)

Galchenyuk at center, Petry here from the start, having the best 4th line center in the NHL, a leaner DSP, a leaner Emelin....half of the players I mentioned up top are either retired, are career AHLer's or are probably on last NHL contract (except Prust). Therrien is coaching a much different team, I've said it for a long time, they didn't have the horses, or at least tamed horses to play the kind've hockey we're seeing. I believe moving fwd, this is the type of hockey we'll be witnessing all year and for years to come.

Congrats LG for 30,000 Posts (5 away) .....you're crazy for having that many posts, I'll never hit half of that

 

[Kriss E]

Gone are PAP (slow and heartless)
Prust (slow with minimal talent)
Bournival (hands of cement) like the kid, don't like the player
Gonchar (old and slow)
Weaver (minimal talent and old)
Malhotra (old and talentless)

Galchenyuk at center, Petry here from the start, having the best 4th line center in the NHL, a leaner DSP, a leaner Emelin....half of the players I mentioned up top are either retired, are career AHLer's or are probably on last NHL contract (except Prust). Therrien is coaching a much different team, I've said it for a long time, they didn't have the horses, or at least tamed horses to play the kind've hockey we're seeing. I believe moving fwd, this is the type of hockey we'll be witnessing all year and for years to come.

Congrats LG for 30,000 Posts (5 away) .....you're crazy for having that many posts, I'll never hit half of that

Well..
PAP..replaced by Semin who is already being benched and skipping shifts. Neither of those guys are grinding style players though.
Prust..replaced by Kassian who's in rehab.
Bournival and Weaver were more extras than regulars. But yes we seemingly upgraded them.
Mitchell is definitely an upgrade over Maholtra.
Petry replaced Gilbert and Gilbert is now in Gonchar's shoes. That's an upgrade as well.
Bottom line though, the only grinder type player we replaced is Prust, and his replacement will likely never play in a Habs jersey.

Eller had a breakout year in 12-13 putting up 30pts in 46gp. Many people thought Therrien would exploit this, he didn't. I mean, he did for 20 games where Eller put up 13pts. But over that stretch, his line was regularly dismantled in order to split more offense. That failed, we stayed with pretty much one line producing the bulk of our offense and Eller got stuck on the 3rd line. Because of that, there has been 2 years of ridiculous debate Eller vs DD, which of them should we focus on for a top 6 role.
We also saw PK take a step back from joining the rush.
Many were also arguing that Galchenyuk should have been used as a center at the latest by last season. It was evident that the center position would benefit him more as it would involve him in more plays, he'd constantly be next to the puck, he'd have more room to create offense and pick up speed, which is what he needed most. Certainly, he's gotten stronger, has another year of experience in the book, but I have no doubt in my mind he would have had a stronger year last season at the center position.

In 12-13, we played the same style and our roster wasn't particularly better than last season or the previous one. Gionta was a dying breed, Bourque was injured and not that great. We had Moen, Armstrong, Bouillon, White, etc. We were more suited to play a grinding game that season but we didn't do it and it lead to go results.
We finished high in the standings, were scoring more than 3G/GP and allowing less than 27 shots/game. We were playing well and dominating our opposition.
So it's not true that we lacked the talent. It was always there. Maybe it wasn't as strong as it is now, but we definitely had it.

 

[Hackett]

No idea what changed in his mind, but this season the Habs aren't playing the stupid dump and chase anymore and are much more aggressive on the forecheck. Liking it so far.

I wouldn't say that the dump and chase is gone. There are some lines that still do it alot more than others, namely the plekanec line and the Mitchell line. But I think it suits their style of play so I don't mind it.

Then you have a line like galchenyuk who carry the puck over the blueline basically every chance they get.

So its not gone, there's just more variety to their approach now. I think the management saw the need to change their approach, and they made certain tweaks to the cast in order to execute it successfully.

Still lots of season left though. I'll be interested to see if the team starts reverting to old habits when things aren't going so well.