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There is nothing wrong with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares.

KAWAIlllI said:
The post I quoted proves that the poster agenda is to protect his “boys” and s**t on Nylander - a trait that the poster and a few others share in the Leafs forum
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Just because you can't understand numbers and don't watch the games doesn't mean I have a motive...

I think they all deserve blame, I just think it is weird to only blame two of them.

WetcoastOrca said:
Nonsense. The biggest issue with the Leafs is their core 4.
It’s always easier for hardcore fans like yourself to blame the support players rather than being more objective and blaming the underperforming stars.
It’s been the same thing the last 8 years with the core 4 underperforming despite a revolving door of support players.
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I am blaming the core too, learn to read.

It isn't like they are producing at a Pettersson level... they are still producing close to PPG.

NotAVacuumSalesman said:
All defence from an offensive player.. I guess no one wants to score for the Leafs. Which sounds about right.
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The issue is, that he doesn't score significantly more, so he shouldn't be exempt from criticism.
 
Depth is for cowards (still useful but absolutely overrated IMO). The core 4 are all fraudulent so called "sUpErStArS" who are mediocre, if not terrible playoff performers.

That's the sole reason why Toronto really hasn't done shit in the playoffs going back to 2017. It low-key has nothing to do with roster construction as much some people like to think it does.

The NHL is somewhat the same as the NBA. You're not accomplishing shit without star power, plain and simple.
 
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notbias said:
Agreed it's a problem, but it's not the only problem.

No team is winning with the depth scoring Toronto is getting right now.

Florida has about the same amount of cap in 4 forwards + goaltending as Toronto has in 4 forwards + goaltending.
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notbias said:
Just because you can't understand numbers and don't watch the games doesn't mean I have a motive...

I think they all deserve blame, I just think it is weird to only blame two of them.



I am blaming the core too, learn to read.

It isn't like they are producing at a Pettersson level... they are still producing close to PPG.
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Matthews is pacing for 15 goals per 82 games in the post season so far. That's David Kampf level. We need him to score more goals. And he is also below ppg.

Leafs got enough contributions from depth. Benoit scored, Domi, Patches (including the series clinching goal), Rielly, OEL, even Tanev has a goal. You can't expect the bottom 6 to carry the water for the top 6. They have to produce more.
 
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Suntouchable13 said:
Matthews is pacing for 15 goals per 82 games in the post season so far. That's David Kampf level. We need to score more goals. And he is also below ppg.

Leafs got enough contributions from depth. Benoit scored, Domi, Patches (including the series clinching goal), Rielly, OEL, even Tanev has a goal. You can't expect the bottom 6 to carry the water for the top 6. They have to produce more.
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Benoit's strong contribution.

Screenshot 2025-05-16 at 2.23.56 PM.png



Top 6.

Screenshot 2025-05-16 at 2.25.03 PM.png



Bottom 6.

Screenshot 2025-05-16 at 2.25.29 PM.png




I don't expect the bottom 6 to carry the team, I just expect them to win some matchups.
 
Suntouchable13 said:
Let's just say we need contributions from everyone. Yea, I agree some of those bottom 6 guys are offensive blackholes.
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It's not even offensively, they aren't doing anything defensively too.

It is hard to win when you rely so much on so few players.

The top players need to do more, the bottom of the lineup also needs to do more, it is simple.

Losing has been a team effort.
 
should a core 4 be entirely forwards?

how would you define winning cores on other teams

Florida = Tkachuk, Barkov, Forsling, Bob (i could be wrong here)
Chicago = Kane, Toews, kieth, Hossa
Pittsburgh = Crosby, Malkin, letang, fleury
Tampa = Kucherov, point, hedman, vasi

I honestly think Tavares is not even remotely built for playoff hockey, he's just too bland.
 
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One other major problem is that all of the core 4 players play a game that is similar to one another, that is to say they are all offensive first players. None of them are physical power forwards (ie Ovechkin) none of them are rats/agitators (ie Marchand), none of them are a shutdown forward/two way stud (ie on the level of someone like Bergeron/Kopitar/Barkov), none of them are a true net front presence (ie Perry), you get the point.

They all play too similar of a game.
 
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Are people that impatient that they can't wait until the end of the series to judge them? As of now, the Leafs can still win the series. 5 days ago they nearly had a 3-0 series lead. The way the media and the fans are going with this whole thing makes me wonder if I am the only person who has ever followed the NHL playoffs. People are aware that the Leafs are still quite capable of winning the series, right?
 
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slapKing said:
One other major problem is that all of the core 4 players play a game that is similar to one another, that is to say they are all offensive first players. None of them are physical power forwards (ie Ovechkin) none of them are rats/agitators (ie Marchand), none of them are a shutdown forward/two way stud (ie on the level of someone like Bergeron/Kopitar/Barkov), none of them are a true net front presence (ie Perry), you get the point.

They all play too similar of a game.
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Both the top winger and C have Selke votes in multiple years and each has a nomination, you're acting like they all only play one way...
 
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notbias said:
It's not even offensively, they aren't doing anything defensively too.

It is hard to win when you rely so much on so few players.

The top players need to do more, the bottom of the lineup also needs to do more, it is simple.

Losing has been a team effort.
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Come on. Numbers all not all. Do you really beleive that Austin M is playing good, or great. Do you really see him on the ice....he is what +1 and 3 pts against the Panthers in 5 games. BTW no goals.

Leafs are still alive but at some point Marner and him need to make the difference.
 
notbias said:
It's not even offensively, they aren't doing anything defensively too.

It is hard to win when you rely so much on so few players.

The top players need to do more, the bottom of the lineup also needs to do more, it is simple.

Losing has been a team effort.
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Agreed, totally. Let's watch and see if anyone steps up tonight and helps Toronto win this game.
 
Bradely said:
Come on. Numbers all not all. Do you really beleive that Austin M is playing good, or great. Do you really see him on the ice....he is what +1 and 3 pts against the Panthers in 5 games. BTW no goals.

Leafs are still alive but at some point Marner and him need to make the difference.
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They were 3-0 against Barkov's line in the first two games, I'll take that, but they have been far worse in the last 3 games.

I don't expect them to ever dominate that line.

They need to do more, but that is a tough line to play against.
 
awegrzyn said:
People follow general trends and general opinions. Hence, their analysis of Toronto is off. There is nothing wrong with players in the "CoreFore" except they are together on the same team. Once they separate they will win. This is not a full picture, but the stats paint a completely different picture:

1. Points Per Game are exactly the same for those 4 players as in Regular Season.
2. The playoffs "elevated" game, people talk about, by McDavid and Dri is actually the same in terms of Points Per Game in the playoffs.
3. Alex Barkov is (watch out) 9th on Panters in the playoffs in terms of scoring for Points Per Game.
4. Core 4 scores on average 1 point per game in regular season and in the playoffs. How much more do you want from them when other stars produce them same.
5. Only Rantanen out scores the Toronto Core 4. The rest of Dallas does not even get close to Toronto scoring.

The problem is somewhere else. Just look at the playoffs stats for both Toronto and Florida and compare Points Per Game. You will get the correct answer. The Toronto team is simply build wrong. That's on management. They ran into Florida that is build as the best team right now. There is no way for Toronto to win this. Just compare their production across the team. Toronto is not overrated. It actually is underrated, and goes as far in the playoffs as their build allows them.
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Cool story.

PPG doesn't equal elevating play. Lots of quiet points, bagging points early and going away later on. Never stepping up in crucial moments in series.

They've burned through coaches and GMs. They've tried to address other areas of the roster to be harder to play. At some point you have to look at the faces of the team. Winning means as much to them as the Muskoka Five. They're about playing as long as they can, not as good as they can.
 
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There is nothing wrong with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares.. in the regular season.​

 
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