Says who ? You go on and on and on about that. In coach Greens opinion that is not the case. I think he's a little more accomplished than yourself. He felt Hutton wasn't ready yet ? What's there not to understand other than you will not accept this ?
The Virtues of Development vs. Winning in the AHL (Read OP)
- Thread starter Tobi Wan Kenobi
- Start date
Says who ? You go on and on and on about that. In coach Greens opinion that is not the case. I think he's a little more accomplished than yourself. He felt Hutton wasn't ready yet ? What's there not to understand other than you will not accept this ?
As a Comets STH, I was more concerned about the Comets winning their division / conference than watching Hutton get to develop for 4-5 games.
Negrin actually gave the Comets a better chance to win at that stage of the game.
There is a reason the CANUCKS sent Hutton home for the playoffs.
You should really watch the games.
He doesn't understand this. He thinks that the AHL is ONLY around to develop prospects so they can move on to Vancouver to help them win the Stanley Cup again.....oh, that hasn't worked the past 45 years.
My guess is Linden, Benning and Green have a plan and are sticking to it.
Yep, that is the only reason we are here, to develop players for the "big club", multi time Stanley Cup champion.....
Geez, the previous 45 years of development hasn't worked for the Canucks or their fans, give Linden and Benning a chance.
opendoor
Registered User
- Dec 12, 2006
- 11,719
- 1,403
So you want AHL fans to pay to watch practice?
That is what NHL clubs apparently want.
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Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
Not signing depth AHL:ers and letting the kids take those roles and letting them sink and swim with it, that to me is a rebuild year.
Canucks are trying to become younger, and I hope that the comets will give more opportunities to young players that still has a chance to be part of the Canucks instead of wasting time on crap like Ehrhardt, LaFranchise and Negrin.
Don't know what your humming about, you can probably stop.
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
Negrin is crap, if Hutton was given a chance i believe he would have been a bigger contributor to team success.
I as a canuck fan want the Comets to do well but I want Canuck prospects to be the reason for that success, Im sorry but I rather end up second in the division with Hutton playing than winning the conference with Ehrhardt.
And I watched Hutton play in Utica, and Negrin.
It's the Canucks running the show, guess Linden and Benning don't know what they are doing.
You saw the games in person? There is no way Hutton would have helped the Comets down the stretch.
If the Canucks continue to "develop" players like they have the past 45 years, they will go at least that long with without a Stanley Cup.
You clearly don't know what you're humming about. I'd rather see winning breed winning. Being a Canucks fan, I can see why you wouldn't understand that concept.
Well, as a Comets fan I would rather have the team finish first and have the players that give the Comets the best chance to win play. No Comets fan wants to pay to watch practice games.
The Canucks signed all the players. Benning thinks having experienced AHL players will aid in the prospects development. Linden as well.
Hummer, think about what you just typed here.....Canucks are trying to become younger, and I hope that the comets will give more opportunities to young players that still has a chance to be part of the Canucks instead of wasting time on crap like Ehrhardt, LaFranchise and Negrin.
Then why did Benning assign these fringe AHLers....the Comets didn't sign them.
Let them sink or swim? If they sink...losing is good for development?
45 years.
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
I watched them on TV, since I don't live in Utica.
I dont Agree i think Hutton would have helped as much as Negrin, but that is not my point.
And stop being so snarky I have been a fan of this team since 1994, I´ve seen 2 president trophies and 2 cup finals. Who cares if Ehrhardt is a winner I want McCann, Virtanen, Skinkaruk and Gaunce to be winners.
Canucks have had a lot of AHL vets on their teams in Manitooba, and Chicago as well, MAnitooba also made it to AHL finals. What the Canucks haven't done is letting the kids take big roles on their development team. I think that would be a good idea.
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
Comets signed Ehrhardt, Negrin and LaFranchise get your facts straight.
Problem is that they aren't getting a chance to sink.
2000–01 Saint John Flames (1)
2001–02 Chicago Wolves (1)
2002–03 Houston Aeros (1)
2003–04 Milwaukee Admirals (1)
2004–05 Philadelphia Phantoms (2)
2005–06 Hershey Bears (9)
2006–07 Hamilton Bulldogs (1)
2007–08 Chicago Wolves (2)
2008–09 Hershey Bears (10)
2009–10 Hershey Bears (11)
2010–11 Binghamton Senators (1)
2011–12 Norfolk Admirals (1) 4–0
2012–13 Grand Rapids Griffins (1)
2013–14 Texas Stars (1)
These are the last Calder cup winners, there aren't that many cup winner among the parent teams, weird because winning breads winning right??
According to you Wasington who has won 3 Calders in the last 10 years should have a great winning culture, weird that the Caps haven't been past the second round in 15 years..
Really, who signed them? The Canucks did. They own the team.
I'm not being any more snarley than you. I've been a Utica Mohawk Valley fan since 1968. The U Comets are the best thing to happen to this are in my lifetime. I want the Canucks to do well and am thankful, like thousands of others, that they chose to put their AHL owned affiliate in our area....even if we weren't the first choice and still may not be....but that is another thread for another day.
I'm really more perturbed about what the AHL has become rather than Vancouver development vs a winning team in our town.
I'm dropping this.
UticaHockey
Registered User
I'm not sure if you understand how this actually works in the case of Vancouver and Utica. Vancouver 100% owns the AHL team and every player on the Comets is signed by the Vancouver Canucks. The majority of the players are on NHL contracts but there are also some that are signed to AHL contracts including the three you listed. Since NHL teams can only have 50 players on NHL contracts teams like Vancouver fill out their AHL roster with additional players signed to AHL contracts. The contract technically states Utica Comets and not Vancouver Canucks because it is an AHL contract but that is just a technicality. Vancouver is really signing them because they own the Utica Comets AHL franchise.
The business relationship between Vancouver and Utica is such that Vancouver controls 100% of the hockey operations. This includes every player on the roster, all of the coaches and training staff. The Utica Comets local ownership consisting of Robert Esche and his partners controls all of the day to day operation of the business side of the team such as marketing, ticket sales, arena and concessions management plus transportation and lodging for the team.
At a season ticket holders Q&A meeting with Robert Esche he was asked if he has any say in who plays and who is on the roster and the answer was no. The Utica Comets local ownership has ZERO input on roster decisions.
Thank you, I tried pointing that out to him and was told to get my facts straight. A certain percentage of Canuck fans believe we should purchase tickets for glorified practice sessions only. I'm glad Linden and Benning don't feel that way.
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UticaHockey
Registered User
Both Benning and Linden have stated that it is very important to create an expectation of winning at every level and this begins in the AHL so that when players move up to the NHL they carry that expectation with them. I see no indication that this philosophy is a one year thing so I expect them to place an emphasis on winning in the AHL as long as Benning and Linden are running the show.
I fully expect Vancouver to supply Utica again next year with a good combination of veteran leaders along with younger prospects. The NHL teams that load up their AHL teams with all prospects and few quality veteran leaders fail to make the playoffs year end and year out.
Jimson Hogarth*
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2013
- 12,858
- 3
I get Utica fans point but its lost on Negrin, I'm pretty sure their are beer leaguers here in Vancouver better than him...To say Hutton wouldn't be a better 7th/8th Dman, working on his conditioning with a pro team in the playoffs is pretty extreme in the opposite direction of the people you are criticizing.
NoShowWilly
Registered User
What the Canucks have had available to them, prospect wise, is what is holding them back from rounding out their team with prospects.
Have to fill a roster somehow and the Canucks just haven't had enough players pan out to even AHL level in recent years.
I think next year we do see much of the same at forward as Archibald and Bancks will be out. Lebate and Cassels in. If it is up to Benning then probably Stewart as well. Then Valk, Blomstrand, and Fox may also be there.
Shinkaruk
Jensen
Gaunce
Cassels
Grenier (has to clear waivers)
Lebate
Stewart
Valk
Blomstrand
Fox
Zalewski
Friesen (has to clear waivers and should)
that is 12 spots if all these guys were to play in the AHL. I think we'll likely be seeing a similar veteran make up next season.
On the backend i think we'll see more changeover. I don't think all these guys will be there but i think the Left side gets rounded out with prospects coming up. Most of the veterans will probably be down the right side again. Subban should be there though and should have a role on a pp unit.
LD---------RD
Pedan Subban
Hutton Blain
McEneny
Sautner
Cederholm
Liberati
Have to fill a roster somehow and the Canucks just haven't had enough players pan out to even AHL level in recent years.
I think next year we do see much of the same at forward as Archibald and Bancks will be out. Lebate and Cassels in. If it is up to Benning then probably Stewart as well. Then Valk, Blomstrand, and Fox may also be there.
Shinkaruk
Jensen
Gaunce
Cassels
Grenier (has to clear waivers)
Lebate
Stewart
Valk
Blomstrand
Fox
Zalewski
Friesen (has to clear waivers and should)
that is 12 spots if all these guys were to play in the AHL. I think we'll likely be seeing a similar veteran make up next season.
On the backend i think we'll see more changeover. I don't think all these guys will be there but i think the Left side gets rounded out with prospects coming up. Most of the veterans will probably be down the right side again. Subban should be there though and should have a role on a pp unit.
LD---------RD
Pedan Subban
Hutton Blain
McEneny
Sautner
Cederholm
Liberati
UticaHockey
Registered User
I agree with you on Negrin but remember who his dad is. I have to believe that John Negrin's playing time is dictated right down from Vancouver's ownership. There is no other way to explain it.
Jimson Hogarth*
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2013
- 12,858
- 3
Yea I agree with that, its a rather clear and frightening signal that Canucks ownership is more involved in hockey operations than many people care to admit.
Tobi Wan Kenobi
Registered User
When Pedan first played for the comets all I heard from you guys was about how lost he looked. 30 games later he turned into one of your better defenseman. You guys are all clamouring for him to go back in to the lineup. Hutton should have been playing every game out of the last 20. If he didn't show any improvement, then yeah sure don't play him in the playoffs. That never happened there's no excuse for it. The Aqullinis bought their own AHL and it was something Gillis had tried to do for many years and the main reason for that is so they could control the development of their players. Not having journeymen AHL'ers playing instead of the prospects. There's no point for the Canucks to even own it really. We might as well just have the Chicago Wolves again.
BeardyCanuck03
@BeardyCanuck03
It's easy earlier in the season to input and develop younger players in the lineup. Once the playoff races get heated and playoffs are in sight/ongoing it's tough for coaches to not play who he feels is the best lineup that gives the team the best chance to win.
Hutton will get more than enough ice time and games played next season to develop.
Icing a lineup that doesn't have AHL veterans and is full of under 23 prospects isn't going to develop the prospects the best. It's a really tough for AHL teams to balance winning and development, I think the Canucks have done a good job this season at having the Comets competitive while still having spots for 1st year pros like Gaunce and Shinkaruk. Maybe they could've played Hutton more in the stretch run but I'm not worried as I'm expecting him to play an important role next season.
