Denver Post: The Varlamov Investigation: Part II *Read the MOD WARNING in post #1*

[Avs_19]

That's fine if you disagree. I would just prefer he isn't around the team if he's charged and on trial. Innocent until proven guilty but it's an unneeded distraction and a PR nightmare. Like I said, I hope the NHL steps in at that point.

If he pleads to anything related to domestic violence, I wouldn't want him on the team anymore.

 

[SuperUnknown]

Doesn't imply guilt but they're only going to charge him if they think they have enough to convict. If he enters a plea bargain, doesn't that mean he's pleading guilty to something?

Unfortunately, sometimes even if you are not guilty, it's easier to make a plea bargain than to risk a trial.

 

[Avs_19]

Unfortunately, sometimes even if you are not guilty, it's easier to make a plea bargain than to risk a trial.

In this case even that could be risky. If what the lawyer in this interview says is correct, he could still be deported even if he makes a plea bargain. Unless of course he cuts a deal where they agree not to deport him but I'm not sure if that's something that's even possible.

I'm still backing Varly and I think the whole story is a bit strange but if any of it is true, I wouldn't want him on the Avs.

 

[Crisp Breakout]

Doesn't imply guilt but they're only going to charge him if they think they have enough to convict. If he enters a plea bargain, doesn't that mean he's pleading guilty to something?

Not necessarily, there are still the no contest and the Alford plea where you can assert innocence but recognize that there is sufficient evidence to convict you.

 

[RTN]

Well. As Bonzai said. Lying to your boss is not really that much of a big deal as you make it out to be. In this case it really does not matter to him anyways. He has nothing to gain from telling the truth if he is guilty so why wouldn't he lie?

Innocent or not. The story would probably be the same. And given the weird description of his by his girlfriend, it is safe to say that he easily could pull it off.


And yeah. Thanks for the reminder. Another reason why I don't think you can judge our coach / management at all. I remember you really getting into trying to justify this crappy trade.
Don't worry. Saint Patrick can do no wrong and he will save us all!

Lying to your boss becomes more significant when you have more on the line. Sure it happens, but there is a difference between someone working at Walmart and someone with a million dollar contract. Varlamov might still lie, but he knows now if they find out he did, he's pretty much done with the Avs and probably the NHL.

If he's guilty, it would have been better for him to do damage control ("I made a bad mistake ... etc.") with management than outright deny it.

 

[Bonzai12]

Lying to your boss becomes more significant when you have more on the line. Sure it happens, but there is a difference between someone working at Walmart and someone with a million dollar contract. Varlamov might still lie, but he knows now if they find out he did, he's pretty much done with the Avs and probably the NHL.

If he's guilty, it would have been better for him to do damage control ("I made a bad mistake ... etc.") with management than outright deny it.

I just don't think there's a hard fast rule to go by on any of this.

Look at the elaborate lies A-Rod, McGwire, Lance Armstrong and others have construed in sports.

I actually think Varlamov has a lesser chance of lying because he makes way less than those guys I mentioned above.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

So... did he ever get charged/investigated? Figuring that's what the title is alluding to.

 

[dahrougem2]

Well. As Bonzai said. Lying to your boss is not really that much of a big deal as you make it out to be. In this case it really does not matter to him anyways. He has nothing to gain from telling the truth if he is guilty so why wouldn't he lie?

Innocent or not. The story would probably be the same. And given the weird description of his by his girlfriend, it is safe to say that he easily could pull it off.


And yeah. Thanks for the reminder. Another reason why I don't think you can judge our coach / management at all. I remember you really getting into trying to justify this crappy trade.
Don't worry. Saint Patrick can do no wrong and he will save us all!

How do you think it does not matter to him? This is his livelihood at stake. This is a man who could potentially face 2-6 years in jail and/or deportation if all of this happens to be true. You don't think that's lingering in the back of his mind? And you still think that he'd be able to flat out lie to Roy and Sakic, his two bosses, if they were indeed asking him tough questions about his situation? And you think that he'd be so good at lying that he'd get them to believe him? Because that's just way out there in terms of common sense

& yes, I think it is a good trade because your little asset management theory that you throw into every trade discussion is literally almost always flawed. All that seems to matter to you in trades is whether we get value or more assets than the other team, and you never take into consideration the actual make-up of the team. If you for one moment had looked at the Avs roster and realized that Steve Downie isn't exactly suited to play on a 3rd line with Nathan MacKinnon and Jamie McGinn, you'd realize why the Avs made this trade. If you had looked at contract status of both players you'd realize why the Avs made this trade. But you didn't. All you seem to worry about is asset management. I'd be extremely worried if you were ever in a managerial position of any kind

 

[RockLobster]

So... did he ever get charged/investigated? Figuring that's what the title is alluding to.

I'm under the impression that the allegations against him are actively being investigated.

 

[Bonzai12]

When they arrested him it was on the basis that they had enough suspicion that he performed a crime. Now the DA is determining the charges for the trial - he/she can reduce or increase the charges depending on the evidence.

 

[RTN]

I just don't think there's a hard fast rule to go by on any of this.

Look at the elaborate lies A-Rod, McGwire, Lance Armstrong and others have construed in sports.

I actually think Varlamov has a lesser chance of lying because he makes way less than those guys I mentioned above.

I've never actually heard anyone say those people specifically lied to employers. Lied to fans, yes, but not employers. In the MLB, the commissioner's office and owners either knew about it or turned a blind eye. PEDs are/were rampant in cycling so teammates knew about it and sponsors (not really the same as owners since they usually just sign cheques) at the very least would have suspected it.

Even for a guy like Tiger Woods, most of the PGA players who know him say it wasn't a surprise, it was really just the fans who are out of the loop.

I really doubt the Yankees asked A-Rod if he ever used PEDS since they wouldn't have wanted to know the answer. The fact that the Avs are taking this head on in asking direct questions is somewhat impressive compared to how sports teams usually act.

 

[Mant*]

I don't agree with this. If/when he's charged, it's time for him to go away until this is settled. Maybe the NHL can make it easier for the Avs by suspending him indefinitely.

So if he gets charged, the Avs and NHL should just go ahead and decide that he's guilty? If the NHL suspended him, he would have a huge case against them if he were found innocent.

 

[Joe Sakic]

No matter how this inevitably works out I still hope Varly is our #1 goaltender.

 

[JoemAvs]

How do you think it does not matter to him? This is his livelihood at stake. This is a man who could potentially face 2-6 years in jail and/or deportation if all of this happens to be true. You don't think that's lingering in the back of his mind? And you still think that he'd be able to flat out lie to Roy and Sakic, his two bosses, if they were indeed asking him tough questions about his situation? And you think that he'd be so good at lying that he'd get them to believe him? Because that's just way out there in terms of common sense

& yes, I think it is a good trade because your little asset management theory that you throw into every trade discussion is literally almost always flawed. All that seems to matter to you in trades is whether we get value or more assets than the other team, and you never take into consideration the actual make-up of the team. If you for one moment had looked at the Avs roster and realized that Steve Downie isn't exactly suited to play on a 3rd line with Nathan MacKinnon and Jamie McGinn, you'd realize why the Avs made this trade. If you had looked at contract status of both players you'd realize why the Avs made this trade. But you didn't. All you seem to worry about is asset management. I'd be extremely worried if you were ever in a managerial position of any kind

My point is that his livelihood is at stake either way. He is an RFA next offseason.
If he admits to something, the Avs are probably moving on. They might even release him and make the job slightly (very slightly) easier for the DA. Getting cut by the Avs certainly would make deportation easier as well (it should not factor in but I bet it does a little bit)

I don't really believe that he is guilty.
I just don't see how a conversation with Roy or Sakic is evidence for anything.
His gf basically accuses him of being a deceptive monster. That is her story. He is a sick dude who likes to beat woman when he is drunk and who is fooling everyone who believes he is a good dude.
He is a monster.
Again. I don't believe that.

But if she is telling the truth, he would have no problem with lying to Roy / Sakic.

I am sure the team is investigating but there are only some circumstances they can verify. If he did beat her or not is not one of them I guess. I doubt that the girl would talk to the Avs and it seems like there are no witnesses besides her and her friend.
Both not likely to cooperate with the Avs.

My "little theory" is the difference between being a constant second round exit for a decade or a cup.
The margins at the contending level in a cap world are very very slim. You need every asset you can get in order to get over the hump.
Downie getting injured does not change anything. That is hindsight.
The point is that the Avs got bad value. They could / should have gotten more for Downie. Who knows how Talbot fits in but your teambuilding argument does not make sense in that context. Players like Talbot can be acquired cheaper.

I trust Pracey and having or not having another Bigras / Barrie / Martin could be vital down the line..

But I really did not want to comment on that. The trade is done. I hate it. You like it. Lets move on. I am a big fan of coach Roy. I am not sure I like manager Roy. That is all. Lets focus on 13 - 1, Varly hopefully getting cleared of all charges (or better not getting charged at all) and Tanger and McGinn recovering as soon as possible.

 

[Avs_19]

So if he gets charged, the Avs and NHL should just go ahead and decide that he's guilty? If the NHL suspended him, he would have a huge case against them if he were found innocent.

Not decide that he's guilty but I don't think he should be playing while that's going on. Maybe they can come to some kind of mutual agreement where he stays away until his trial is over.

I think Roy kept playing when he was charged and the charges were eventually dropped so maybe they do let Varly keep playing because he's innocent until proven guilty. I don't really know. I just think it would be a big distraction.

Hopefully it all gets settled quickly.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

I think the only thing Patrick Roy and Joe Sakic should have to worry about is what the NHL thinks of all of this. They will undoubtedly ask their input. If the NHL thinks it's okay for Varlamov to play, then so do I. I don't want the Avs to play judge/jury and suspend Varlamov when he's innocent until proven guilty.

If he's proven guilty, fine, kick him off the team and good riddance, but not a minute before it's proven, if you ask me. Just spitting in the face of the American justice system if we stop him from playing.


Then again, a lot of people seem to be okay with spitting in the face of the American justice system these days.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

I'd bet half of the talk between Sakic/Roy and Varly was about how these allegations are affecting him. Is he distracted by it? How focused is he on the game? How is he being affected and/or how does this affect the other guys in the locker room?

I don't think they'd want to play judge and jury. There is a legal system for that. They'll address how to punish him if it turns out that he is convicted, and of what charges. Right now, they're more than likely focusing on their job -- player/team stability and winning games.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

I'd bet half of the talk between Sakic/Roy and Varly was about how these allegations are affecting him. Is he distracted by it? How focused is he on the game? How is he being affected and/or how does this affect the other guys in the locker room?

I don't think they'd want to play judge and jury. There is a legal system for that. They'll address how to punish him if it turns out that he is convicted, and of what charges. Right now, they're more than likely focusing on their job -- player/team stability and winning games.

They don't want to want to play judge and jury but I'm sure they want to know who their letting back on the team. They'll want to make sure their behinds are protected from any possible fallout from this whole thing. Their not stupid, the Avalanche organization has lawyers and PR experts that have talked about this topic to death I'm sure.

 

[RockLobster]

Guys, what is it going to take to make you understand that this is NOT a thread to bring up Patrick Roy's, or any other player for that matter, personal life? Especially when said charges were dropped and he was cleared. It is against site rules to do so:

13) Libel: Any posts libeling players, prospects, or hockey personnel. It's not acceptable to post that you heard Player X has a drinking/drug/sex/personal problem from a "good" source. Do not post information that can be considered defamatory without a link to a credible media source. Other forums, personal websites, hearsay, and personal testimonials are not considered credible.

I and the other Moderating staff have made numerous Warnings detailing what would happen if it continued. Now maybe we've been soft on that warning, but it won't continue.

Read the OP, if you feel that you can't abide by that Warning, then don't post, if you do, it will be an Infraction coming your way, understood?

 

[Foppa2118]

Guys, what is it going to take to make you understand that this is NOT a thread to bring up Patrick Roy's, or any other player for that matter, personal life? Especially when said charges were dropped and he was cleared. It is against site rules to do so:



I and the other Moderating staff have made numerous Warnings detailing what would happen if it continued. Now maybe we've been soft on that warning, but it won't continue.

Read the OP, if you feel that you can't abide by that Warning, then don't post, if you do, it will be an Infraction coming your way, understood?

It's kind of funny, I keep reading you guys warn about this but you're so on top of it I never see any of the posts. It just ends up looking like you're losing your mind yelling nonsensicals into the wind.

 

[Frenchy]

It's kind of funny, I keep reading you guys warn about this but you're so on top of it I never see any of the posts. It just ends up looking like you're losing your mind yelling nonsensicals into the wind.

You have to be insane to be a Mod , you guys didnt know that ?

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Let me be the first to say...

You have to be insane to be a Mod , you guys didnt know that ?

 

[raistlin76]

Scott Burnside from ESPN is next one who ripped AVS for handling of Varly situation. Looks like presumption of innocence is only a slogan and if somebody is accused of something he needs to be treated as guilty.

I wonder if all "journalists" who claims he should be restricted from playing ask themselves a question: "what would happen if during playoffs biggest stars from various teams are accused of something". IMHO ripping AVS for this is asking for trouble in a future. I'm sure there would be a lots of people who can claim that Toews did something and Crosby something else. And then what? Everybody with claims against them should wait for judge and jury decision before they play again?

Here is a link to Burnside article:
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/9...ook-bad-their-handling-semyon-varlamov-arrest

 

[Bonzai12]

ESPN is the king of sensationalism. And people bite on it everytime.

Disagreement is such a strong emotion.

 

[Crisp Breakout]

Here's my response to Burnside, but I don't feel like putting it in my actual name:

This is bad journalism. I'm not surprised though; ESPN seems to avoid hockey until it has a juicy story that it can blow out of proportion to make the sport look like a bunch of careless barbarians.

You acknowledge that he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. You acknowledge that you have no inside information. Yet you still suggest the Avalanche did something wrong. Perhaps the Avalanche have some inside information, and they have taken the responsible approach of not litigating in the media.

Your examples of the police officer and teacher are completely irrelevant. A cop accused of a violent crime should be placed on desk duty because presumably at any minute in the field he might have to make a life or death decision with his and others' lives. Whether or not he is guilty, his state of mind is imperative to the safety of the public. Similarly a teacher accused of abuse would be around vulnerable and impressionable children. Varlamov, as a hockey goaltender, is not tasked with keeping youngsters safe. Nor as a goalie is Varlamov given a gun and told to make split second decisions that have life or death consequences.

Ultimately what this comes down to is that the Avalanche's job is to win hockey games. The Avalanche's job is not to play the role of a second justice system that acquiesces to the public opinion which has been formed based solely on allegations by an attorney, whose means seem, at the very best, questionable. If these allegations are proven true, then the Avalanche will look horrible, but at the moment I'm somewhat skeptical that Semyon is the monster that the allegations make him out to be.

Here's my favorite conclusory statement: "Instead, the fact that Varlamov went from jail to the win column in the blink of an eye leaves everyone connected to this a significant loser, no matter how the legal process plays out." That's patently false.