Blue Jays Discussion: The trade deadline has passed. Time to see what this can do (most acquisitions expected to be present Thursday in Minnesota)

[phillipmike]

Blue Jays Jazz Up Bullpen With Pop and Bass

Toronto plucks a couple of solid relievers from Miami to boost its bullpen depth.

blogs.fangraphs.com

FG likes Bass and Pop, thinks the Jays improved. Bass may regress but Pop has some potential.

They dont like Groshans much. He has the 2nd lowest SLG% in AAA. He wont be a regular if he moves to 3B with no power.

Finally Traded, Whit Merrifield Brings Versatility to Blue Jays

Assuming he gets his COVID-19 vaccine, that is.

blogs.fangraphs.com

FG says the Jays didnt need Merrifield but in hindsight the fit makes sense with Espinal cooling off. Said all of the Jays backup OF options are left handed in Biggio, Tapia and Zimmer. Implying its good to have a righty as well.

They like Taylor as a 1 WAR guy but worry his K% wont translate. They like Castillo as a reliever unless KC can work with him.

Also KC Royals reporter Jeff Montgomery joined Blair and Barker yesterday and said Merrifield prefers to play CF over the corner OF positions. He thinks he will be a great fit to Jays and could have a similar impact that Zobrist had with KC in 2015.

 

[stats1]

Anyone have any idea what line-up is? Minnesota announced there’s a couple of hours ago.

I’m assuming all 4 new guys are available, I wonder if Whitt gets the start

 

[Eyedea]

It doesn't look like De Jesus has been performing very well at 3B, but at least he can take a walk and hit the ball all over the field. With Estiven Machado hitting well over the last month there's at least some positional talent to watch in A ball (Leo, Palmegiani, G. Mart, Pinto, Machado, De Jesus).

If you consider De Jesus and Frasso to be pretty even prospects - which certainly appears to be the case - we basically picked up an MLB starting pitcher with 5.5 years of control for a relief pitcher in Dominican rookie ball, which is crazy value.

I think there's a tier difference in potential between them, but Frasso already seems to have a pretty good floor as a reliever whereas with De Jesus there's no floor to speak of. There's a risk, I mean Frasso could end up becoming the next Walker Buehler. But he's already had a UCL repair and has never had a legitimate, full season starter buildup. Mitch White could be Stripling 2.0, but I'm just hoping he pans out better than Thornton.

 

[stats1]

Yeah getting De Jesus was a nice add on in the trade by Atkins. Scouts must see something in him that they like. And even though he doesn’t seem to fit at SS long term it’s a nice replacement for Groshans as a infield prospect. Basically Groshans at 23 years old was wearing out his plans here so now we kick the fan down the road a few more years with a younger kid who’s only 20

 

[phillipmike]

Examining the American League’s 2022 40-Man Crunch

Which American League teams have an impending roster crunch that could affect their trade deadline decisions?

blogs.fangraphs.com

From before the deadline.

Toronto Blue Jays
Current 40-man Count: 44 (4 on 60-day IL)
Pending Free Agents: 2 (David Phelps, Ross Stripling)
Must-Add Prospects: Yosver Zulueta, Orelvis Martinez, Jordan Groshans, Spencer Horwitz
Current 40-man Fringe: Raimel Tapia, Bradley Zimmer, Matt Peacock, Anthony Banda, Vinny Capra, Trevor Richards, Casey Lawrence, Matt Gage
Prospects on the Fringe: Gabriel Martinez, Paxton Schultz, Tanner Morris, Graham Spraker, Kyle Johnston

There isn’t a high-volume crunch here so much as there are some tough decisions looming. Orelvis Martinez isn’t exactly setting the world on fire at Double-A; he’s running a sub-.300 OBP and chasing sliders at a terrifying rate. Groshans has had injury trouble (foot, back, oblique) and has much less power than it looked like he’d end up with as a draft prospect. Adding both of them means they’d each spend 2023 jockeying for position to replace Matt Chapman in ’24.

Back from a month missed due to injury, the 20-year-old Gabriel Martinez is raking again at Low-A. The Jays could push him to High-A Vancouver and give him an opportunity to earn a spot via his performance throughout the rest of the year, knowing that 2023 would likely be a purely developmental year on the 40-man (they charted a similar course with Leo Jimenez, except in Fall League rather than High-A). Their other option is to slow-play Martinez’s development, keeping him in Low-A all year in the hopes that the gap between that level and the big leagues is too rich for teams to consider taking Martinez in the Rule 5 Draft this offseason. If he isn’t taken, he’d start 2023 at Vancouver and hopefully hit his way to New Hampshire, putting Toronto in position to make a more confident 40-man decision on him after next season. In either case, Martinez’s big league ETA is actually sometime in 2024. Horwitz is a flush lefty-hitting in-house replacement for Tapia, who has been a shade under replacement level this year at nearly $4 million. The infield versatility of Santiago Espinal, Otto Lopez, Groshans and Orelvis makes it possible to add Morris, a bat-only guy, or pick up a gloveless masher from outside the org. The rest of the decision points here are a) Does Toronto think this reliever is better than that reliever? and b) What line do they take to have enough depth to deal with 2023 injuries?

 

[stats1]

I wouldn’t mind picking up Gregorius. He’s had a terrible year but a solid vet. Could fill in with any injuries.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[phillipmike]

 

[red devil]

 

[The Nemesis]

I wouldn’t mind picking up Gregorius. He’s had a terrible year but a solid vet. Could fill in with any injuries.

"he's basically unemployable this season but hey he was good once upon a time so maybe he'll show up in a DeLorean and be the 2018 version!"

He's terrible this season. he was terrible last season. He was terrible in 2019. And the one year in that stretch where he wasn't bad (2020) was the pandemic-shortened year where he still only played like half the games and was merely sort of OK instead of actually good.

He hasn't moved the needle meaningfully in 5 years. And he hasn't been a good defender in longer than that. What he was in 2018 is irrelevant now because he's far more likely to be what he is than what he was.

 

[Vector]

 

[The Nemesis]

Kind of weird that Sixeiro said he "wouldn't elaborate" but then Matheson and McGrath both got a straight answer out of him. So was Sixeiro not listening and missed the actual comment? Or does he suck at asking the right questions? Or did he phrase it that way because it might generate more intrigue (because just reading the "won't say he's vaccinated but can come across the border." would definitely play into people speculating and theorizing in all sorts of wild ways about the meaning and mechanics of such a claim far more than "he got the shot and it's a non-issue now."

 

[phillipmike]

Which means he got vaccinated before the deadline/trade. A lot of unwarranted outrage regarding the trade and why Ross would make this deal.

 

[red devil]

Kind of weird that Sixeiro said he "wouldn't elaborate" but then Matheson and McGrath both got a straight answer out of him. So was Sixeiro not listening and missed the actual comment? Or does he suck at asking the right questions? Or did he phrase it that way because it might generate more intrigue (because just reading the "won't say he's vaccinated but can come across the border." would definitely play into people speculating and theorizing in all sorts of wild ways about the meaning and mechanics of such a claim far more than "he got the shot and it's a non-issue now."

This looks like the interview, where he doesn't come out and directly say he got the vaccine but it
is pretty obvious he got it.

 

[Blitzkrug]

He's vaxxed? Well shit, welcome to the team then I guess. Really it makes one wonder how long this deal was in the works if he's already good to play in Toronto.

Hopefully your bat doesn't suck like it did in KC

 

[stickty111]

Good to see he is vaccinated. Now time to perform

 

[DonnyNucker]

Springer's injury woes are frustrating and I can't help but wonder if he's part of the problem.

It feels like everything he's suffered are relatively minor ailments but further aggravated by him not sitting out long enough.

The hamstring in particular last year felt like that.

I tore my bicep and have golfers elbow from batting. After a few weeks off I was back playing and just deal with it. Every time I chase a bad pitch and over extend it’s quite painful. Sure as hell looks like what he has. Not a serious problem. Of course I’m speculating but I just see the similarities.

 

[Advanced stats]

Yes I listened to the interview, but I genuinely wonder if he did get vaccinated. Not that I care really.

You can easily get religious exemptions to cross the border unvaxed.

 

[MS]

It doesn't look like De Jesus has been performing very well at 3B, but at least he can take a walk and hit the ball all over the field. With Estiven Machado hitting well over the last month there's at least some positional talent to watch in A ball (G. Mart, Pinto, Machado, De Jesus).



I think there's a tier difference in potential between them, but Frasso already seems to have a pretty good floor as a reliever whereas with De Jesus there's no floor to speak of. There's a risk, I mean Frasso could end up becoming the next Walker Buehler. But he's already had a UCL repair and has never had a legitimate, full season starter buildup. Mitch White could be Stripling 2.0, but I'm just hoping he pans out better than Thornton.

It will be interesting to watch Frasso and see how he progresses.

The fact that he's almost 24 - and nearly 4 years older than De Jesus - has to be considered in his development. He's destroying A-ball, but he's old to be at that level as a top prospect.

There was a lot of worry when the team traded Kendall Williams in the (incredibly similar) Stripling deal but they definitely got that one right.

 

[phillipmike]

It will be interesting to watch Frasso and see how he progresses.

The fact that he's almost 24 - and nearly 4 years older than De Jesus - has to be considered in his development. He's destroying A-ball, but he's old to be at that level as a top prospect.

There was a lot of worry when the team traded Kendall Williams in the (incredibly similar) Stripling deal but they definitely got that one right.

Remember the trade. Liked getting Stripling and hated trading Williams. Still a lot of time for Williams but it may be a trade we don’t regret.

 

[stats1]

He's vaxxed? Well shit, welcome to the team then I guess. Really it makes one wonder how long this deal was in the works if he's already good to play in Toronto.

Hopefully your bat doesn't suck like it did in KC

Jays probably expressed interest a while back. With KC rebuilding they probably went to him and said look… it’s possible we move you to Toronto, they’re showing some interest, would you be willing to take the vax if you went to the playoffs with them? And clearly he was. Great to have him here and not miss any games.

 

[Eyedea]

It will be interesting to watch Frasso and see how he progresses.

The fact that he's almost 24 - and nearly 4 years older than De Jesus - has to be considered in his development. He's destroying A-ball, but he's old to be at that level as a top prospect.

There was a lot of worry when the team traded Kendall Williams in the (incredibly similar) Stripling deal but they definitely got that one right.

I don’t think Kendall Williams has close to the same stuff as Frasso though. Frasso bulked up which drastically improved his velo. Coming off a UCL repair he has essentially been rehabbing this year so I’m sure him being in Dunedin for the first half of the year was to closely monitor his development and have him utilize the complex/pitching lab. Same thing with Zulu and Tiedemann, and the latter is back there again before going to New Hampshire. Think we’ll likely see that a lot with pitchers in the system going forward.

Age is still a factor, but I think the only major risk with Frasso is whether or not he can maintain a starter’s workload. With De Jesus, who knows if he can even stick at 3B, and will the power be enough to overlook the hit tool? The jump to AA for him will be telling.

I also am intrigued by Mitch White and hope he turns into what we more or less expected of the Kay/Hatch/Thornton’s. With Kershaw going down it looks like the Dodger’s are already missing him.

 

[Leafblooded]

Pretty sure a fake vax record costs about $500 bucks in Texas

 

[Da Cool Rula]

Pretty sure a fake vax record costs about $500 bucks in Texas

How dies that work though. Everything is registered with Govt. I can see getting a fake negative test but haven't really looked into this.

 

[phillipmike]

Passan on the Jays deadline with Blair and Barker;
-Rodon would look good with the Jays but his contractual situation made it tricky
-A little surprised the Jays didn’t do more
-One MLB exec said Groshans is not good anymore the day before the deadline
-A scout said he was stunned Miami got Groshans for 2 relievers on deadline day
-Passan said its alarming to see the drop in Groshans’ power
-Will be interested to see how Groshans progresses
-Jays did a very good job getting Bass. He’s been phenomenal this year.
-Says the pen is pretty good with Bass-Garcia-Cimber-Romano
-Wanted to see the Jays grab a starter and isn’t sure Mitch White is that guy
-Didn’t need a bat like they needed a month ago
-Thought they could get a platoon bat
-Doesn’t know what Merrifield is and if he will get vaccinated to play and if he is you will lose at least few weeks (due to the rules)
-But if he does, he plays every position, great bat to ball skills, excellent base runner and a guy you want on a playoff team, but it isn’t an impact guy like he used to be
-Said the Jays could and should have made deals if they didn’t want to give up Moreno or Tieddeman or Orelvis
-Then said the Jays should have got creative if no one wanted their lower prospects
-Said he isn’t sure the Cubs would do this but you could trade Moreno for Ian Happ and a prospect (mentioned Triantos or Alcantara)
-Said he was surprised Happ and Contreras wasn’t moved
-Detroit’s asking price for Skubal and relievers were astronomically high
-The Tigers wanted young, controllable MLB position players for their pitching, not low-mid level prospects
-The Jays could have traded Moreno to Detroit for their relievers but the answer is “hell no” to trading Moreno for relievers
-Blair brought up Teo to Detroit for pitching and Passan said he didn’t have control. And perhaps they might have had interest in Espinal but sounded noncommittal

Glad Passan isn’t the GM, I’m not trading Moreno for Happ and their 5/6 prospect