The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[Kobe Armstrong]

'Their'

Lolwut? When was that for Armia and Dvo again?

As others have posted, Anderson certainly had value in the season after the Cup run, which was widely reported.

Dvorak had 31 points in 56 games in Arizona, we traded a 1st + 2nd for him. He had 33 points in 56 games with the Habs the next season and suddenly he became worthless?

No. Obviously Dvorak and Anderson's value fell off a cliff during the Hughes tenure. This shouldn't be contentious.

Armia I'll give you, but who knows when his value fell off a cliff - he was valuable immediately after the Cup run but he had a horrible follow up season

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

As others have posted, Anderson certainly had value in the season after the Cup run, which was widely reported.

Dvorak had 31 points in 56 games in Arizona, we traded a 1st + 2nd for him. He had 33 points in 56 games with the Habs the next season and suddenly he became worthless?

No. Obviously Dvorak and Anderson's value fell off a cliff during the Hughes tenure. This shouldn't be contentious.

Armia I'll give you, but who knows when his value fell off a cliff - he was valuable immediately after the Cup run but he had a horrible follow up season

All these tough to move contracts were impeded by the pandemic and the cap freeze etc. It was next to impossible to move cap league-wide for a few years right when Hughes started as GM. We'll see how long that effect lingers, but teams with contracts they wanted to move were in a tough spot for a few years, and Montreal had a bunch.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The next step is to take the next step

 

[the valiant effort]

You guys never had the makings of varsity rebuild fans.

 

[HuGort]

The next step is to take the next step

Hope they have enough sense to trade off the veterans and go for the pick. Forget Gorton and his learn to win mentally. How he thinks learning to win 25th team in league?

 

[overlords]

You guys never had the makings of varsity rebuild fans.

next time they should come heavy or not come at all

 

[ReHabs]

The hardest part of rebuilding is getting to the next step: where losing is not a fact of life and easily swallowed. Us Tankophobes were consistent about not wanting to be the next Buffalo.

I think Hughes won’t fire MSL but he will have to shake things up — a trade would help remind the roster that they’re professional athletes and not a country club.

 

[Tuggy]

The hardest part of rebuilding is getting to the next step: where losing is not a fact of life and easily swallowed. Us Tankophobes were consistent about not wanting to be the next Buffalo.

I think Hughes won’t fire MSL but he will have to shake things up — a trade would help remind the roster that they’re professional athletes and not a country club.

I'm very curious to see what HuGo does. They said things in the offseason about being "in the mix", but let's be honest, that doesn't seem like it's going to happen. I know it hasn't even been 10 games yet, but nothing we've seen so far suggests things are going to get better. If anything, they will probably get worse.

You'll get the people saying rebuilds are hard, which I agree with, but at some point I want to see improvement. I really thought this was the season we were going to start seeing it, and based on HuGo's comments it's clear they were too.

Things seem to be spiraling right now and I'm not sure what the solution is.

It's going to be a long season again, maybe we are just going to have to ride it out. Can't imagine the players are going to enjoy that again.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The hardest part of rebuilding is getting to the next step: where losing is not a fact of life and easily swallowed. Us Tankophobes were consistent about not wanting to be the next Buffalo.

I think Hughes won’t fire MSL but he will have to shake things up — a trade would help remind the roster that they’re professional athletes and not a country club.

It will take a lot more than one rebuild draft's graduates to fill our holes.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I'm very curious to see what HuGo does. They said things in the offseason about being "in the mix", but let's be honest, that doesn't seem like it's going to happen. I know it hasn't even been 10 games yet, but nothing we've seen so far suggests things are going to get better. If anything, they will probably get worse.

You'll get the people saying rebuilds are hard, which I agree with, but at some point I want to see improvement. I really thought this was the season we were going to start seeing it, and based on HuGo's comments it's clear they were too.

Things seem to be spiraling right now and I'm not sure what the solution is.

It's going to be a long season again, maybe we are just going to have to ride it out. Can't imagine the players are going to enjoy that again.

To be fair, to be in the mix they needed some health.

They are down Slaf/Guhle/Laine. A rebuilding team doesn't have the depth to overcome that many injuries, and really didn't have the depth to overcome Laine going down with Roy coming in with such a laissez-faire attitude.

Then you have Primeau taking a massive step back, Montembeault being either hot or cold, and the execution is all off.

Dach needing more ramp up time means without Laine, they are really deficient in talent to score.

We are getting the worst case scenario on everything we needed the best case scenario to be, and in the mix was always going to be playing meaningful hockey later in the year, not being an actual playoff threat.

I'll be interested to see what happens from here on out, but Marty has basically two years to figure his shit out and get them executing because people will handle the rebuild if we lose on getting out-talented, but we have to execute when we have the puck and we need to look cohesive for longer stretches in the defensive zone, right now all the Xs and Os look terrible save the PK, and he;s been too soft on correcting these issues.

 

[Ozmodiar]

I have concerns.

We have key pieces that have issues with availability.

Laine - injury history, out
Dach - injury history, not yet 100%
Guhle - injury history (6th time in 2 seasons +), out.
Reinbacher - injury history, out

I think they can be patient with the forwards because Hage and Demidov are coming down the pipe.

The D, however, is a different story. I think they need a major addition before they can compete.

 

[Andy]

I think folks have weird expectations if they expect a rebuild to be over after three drafts.

Two of the three lottery picks the habs have made are not in the nhl. One of them can't really arrive until next season.

I think many forget that MB left the team with only two legitimate young forwards: Caufield and Suzuki. The only other young forward depth by way of prospects that was left over from the previous regime are Kapanen and Roy. That is how completely bare the team was.

This was always a long-term processes. Admittedly, I thought the team would be better than what they were showing, but y'all underestimate just how much talent the team was missing. It's was always going to take a long time.

Oh, and I forgot to mention how severely tied the team is with the bottom 6 in so much money and term invested in Armia, Dvorak, Gallagher, Anderson.

 

[junyab]

Every year I wait until we've played 8-10 games to decide what I want for the season. Right now, it's pointing to another tank season. So many injuries and some guys not at peak form.

Next year we should have Laine back (hopefully), Demidov, Dach not rusty, and Guhle and Hutson more seasoned. So I'd like our big step forward next year.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I told you guys the in the mix comments would come back to bite them this fanbase has zero patience , calling for everybodies head when we are mid rebuild lol , 2 of our 3 tank picks aren't even on the team and the other is 20 , we are about to add another tank pick to the rebuild and guess what he's gonna be 18 .

Half the board has lost it's mind

 

[Andy]

I told you guys the in the mix comments would come back to bite them this fanbase has zero patience , calling for everybodies head when we are mid rebuild lol , 2 of our 3 tank picks aren't even on the team and the other is 20 , we are about to add another tank pick to the rebuild and guess what he's gonna be 18 .

Half the board has lost it's mind

Indeed. That said, I do believe the team has the horses to be much better than what they are showing. I am a little shocked they've been this bad.

Another thing to consider at the moment is that the habs have 4 rookies currently in the lineup: Heineman, Kapanan, Mailloux, Hutson.

The club is still so damn young.

 

[Habby4Life]

I told you guys the in the mix comments would come back to bite them this fanbase has zero patience , calling for everybodies head when we are mid rebuild lol , 2 of our 3 tank picks aren't even on the team and the other is 20 , we are about to add another tank pick to the rebuild and guess what he's gonna be 18 .

Half the board has lost it's mind

Is it too much to ask they don’t get globetrotted in the own end every night?

 

[Tabarouette]

I told you guys the in the mix comments would come back to bite them this fanbase has zero patience , calling for everybodies head when we are mid rebuild lol , 2 of our 3 tank picks aren't even on the team and the other is 20 , we are about to add another tank pick to the rebuild and guess what he's gonna be 18 .

Half the board has lost it's mind

I mean, I think they did too, but there's a difference between losing like we did the last couple of years and *checks note* looking like you don't even want to play

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Is it too much to ask they don’t get globetrotted in the own end every night?

We have a bottom 3-5 NHL roster

 

[LaP]

Oh, and I forgot to mention how severely tied the team is with the bottom 6 in so much money and term invested in Armia, Dvorak, Gallagher, Anderson.

19.85 millions total. Almost 20 millions.

So far this season if we merge all their production into a super player that would be 3 goals and 8 points -11 in 7 games. This Frankenstein player would be ranked 27th in the league for a mere salary of 18.95 millions.

The funny thing is 18.85 millions is their AAV. In actual money it's 25.55 millions. MB for a reason i will never understand did not have the tendency to sign front loaded contract in fact he did the opposite which makes those players almost impossible to trade as their base salary is higher than their AAV which is a problem if we want to cap dump them to a non rich bottom team.

 

[Habby4Life]

We have a bottom 3-5 NHL roster

So that means that they should play without any structure, interesting. The system they are using is getting torn apart.

Defense can be taught but not by this staff it seems

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Indeed. That said, I do believe the team has the horses to be much better than what they are showing. I am a little shocked they've been this bad.

Another thing to consider at the moment is that the habs have 4 rookies currently in the lineup: Heineman, Kapanan, Mailloux, Hutson.

The club is still so damn young.

Indeed and the defense is the youngest, as outside of Savard and Matheson, they are all 23 years old or younger (Arber 23, Barron soon to be 23, Guhle 22, Hutson 20, Struble 23, Mailloux 21). It also doesn't help that Savard is playing extra crappy. We have so very little experience on defense, but the little we have is not doing good. Maybe Savy should cut down on the late night pastries.

 

[Ezpz]

Need a tougher bottom six. We get slapped around every time Marty benches Xhekaj. Get Armia out of the top six. I'd rather ice Pezz than Dvo. Send Kapanen to Sweden as I feel like he's going to get injured at his current weight. Let him come back bigger next year and more hungry. Evans is basically the only guy actually playing his role in the bottom six. Anderson and Gally are ok but 9 mil in bottom six forwards isn't ideal. I'd almost rather give Gally another chance on the second line to sit in front of the net while Dach does his Lars Eller impression. I'm sure they're trying to pump up Armia, Savard and Dvo's trade value but they're not contributing in the bigger roles they're given and are detrimentally impacting the lineup.

Eject Dvo into the sun; the guy is the exact opposite of what he was advertised as. We were told he was safe; bad defensively. We were told he contributed goals from anywhere in the lineup ala Lars Eller: bad offensively and generates nothing. We were told he was loved and considered a leader and potential "A"; not a leader on the ice whatsoever. He just seems like a guy collecting a paycheque and trying not to get hurt.

Re-sign Evans early for 4 years. He's the type of bottom sixer teams win with and remarkably consistent in terms of production despite his linemates changing ever year. Basically what Dvo was advertised as except contributes Dvo's Arizona offense from the fourth line instead of a mix of the second and third. His advanced metrics are also remarkably consistent. He's also decent on the draw.

Dvo, Dach and Newhook are all splitting second/third line faceoff duties and getting crushed. This team is built to hold on to the puck, not chase it. We need to address this. Dach is going to have to be a winger if he can't get above 40%. Look at the PP faceoff metrics, even Nick, normally 55% is hovering around 40% on the PP. Our PP sucks because we never get the puck and lose possession on every face off.

D also needs a shuffle. Savard needs to sit a few games. Struble in when healthy. Mailloux down. Eye test is confirmed by stats, Savard is the team worst -8. I don't think any of Barron, Struble, or Mailloux have trade value so there's no point ejecting them early. Xhekaj really should have spent a year in the AHL but what can you do when we set injury records two years in a row.

Otherwise losing is fine. Don't lose on purpose and make adjustments to try to win, but we don't have the horses to compete. It's the effort that is disgusting now, not the record. Even from advanced metrics most of the team are taking a step back this year which is the opposite of what is expected in a rebuild.

Top 5 pick I'm taking a center too. I don't think Dach/Suzuki is enough even if Dach pans out the way he was playing in 2023 at the end of two seasons ago and beginning of last season.

 

[Tuggy]

Hagens or Martone should be a nice jolt in the arm to the prospect pool at least...

 

[LaP]

Indeed. That said, I do believe the team has the horses to be much better than what they are showing. I am a little shocked they've been this bad.

Another thing to consider at the moment is that the habs have 4 rookies currently in the lineup: Heineman, Kapanan, Mailloux, Hutson.

The club is still so damn young.

2nd youngest team in the NHL after Buffalo. At one point we have to ice the kids and live with the growing pain can't have 15 vets in the lineup to baby sit them one by one it would take 20 years.

One of the problem right now is the vets we have are not good vets. Ideally KH should try to replace them by better vets next season. Right now his hands are tied but next summer he should be able to do something.

 

[LaP]

Hagens or Martone should be a nice jolt in the arm to the prospect pool at least...

Things can go fast when you add elite skills. You add Martone and Demidov to your lineup and suddenly you got a 2nd line. Since you now have a 1st and 2nd line you can afford to trade kids and picks to help fill holes.