The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[BehindTheTimes]

I’d give them a solid B. I like that the organization has picked a direction. I love the idea of improving their draft capital and adding first round picks in the draft. Something MB was never able to do despite claiming to build through the draft.

I love some of the contracts he’s done (Guhle, Slaf). He’s betting on his horses and has trust in his development team. MB would have bridged them both and had to sign Slaf for 11m per in 2 years. Hughes gave them contracts that are enticing and fair for a young player, but also favourable to the club.

I love the idea of trading the additional firsts to try and get NHL ready talent in hopes they can grow and improve, they are already likely to be better than the results of the picks. The only issue I have here is they weren’t necessarily the horses I would have bet on (Dach, Newhook). I have no problem with the Dach gamble, the talent is there, health is the only concern. Newhook, I struggle to gauge his upside. I just don’t see a consistent top 6 player here, I’m not a big fan of his game either tbh. I wouldn’t have made that move, but I get why it was done.

The picks
Slaf -> best in his draft most likely.
Mesar -> not sure yet, I like him, but I think he’s a bit of a wildcard
Reinbacher -> not my choice, but should be a staple on our d for years to come
Demidov -> was the pick I wanted or Catton. I didn’t expect Demi to be there.
Hage -> love the pick, I’m surprised that they coveted the player enough that they made the move prior to the draft without knowing if he was there. I’d love to know what plan b was if he was gone, but I prefer taking the pick here. He loves the Habs, wants to be here and has skill for days. He’s going to surprise ppl.

I think Hutson is literally going to be a star, if not superstar. I love Mailloux as well.

Dark horse for me is Fowler. This guy could end up one of our top 3 picks imo. I love this kid.

The results aren’t there yet, but I think is time to start augmenting the youth with stability and taking a shot at adding a top 6 since I don’t think that chair is the right seat for Newhook. I think he’s fine in and out, but over time I feel he isn’t a top 6 player on a contending team. Great 3rd liner, luxury in fact, but that’s what he is for me.

 

[Beer and Chips]

No I don't expect it but is very possible. Especially if it takes a couple of more years to make them.


The games won't be meaningless. Mgmt will be looking for the younger players to keep improving and if they are out of contention giving AHL prospects an audtion.

Decisions will have to be made by the trade deadline about who replaces Dvorak and Armia for the rest of the season at least.

 

[dcyhabs]

I’m about done revisiting the past re: Slaf but what I never understood was how people would conflate the argument you lay out:

1. It could be that he was on a “development plan”
2. But whatever he was on, he did not play well and he got a major injury in his rookie year

Both things can be true but objective fact 2 is true. He didn’t play well in his rookie season and he had a serious injury. Whether the team felt the growing pains were part of his development and therefore necessary — I can buy that. But the whole “emperor’s new clothes” routine where Slaf’s rookie year is revised as “good”… no way. He simply wasn’t an NHLer when he was played in the NHL.

In the very near future we will see if this new systemic approach to developing talents will actually change the paradigm. I think teams with sufficient depth or no fear of failing (tanking) can afford to “rush” prospects, so maybe it’s a way to catalyze a player’s development and therefore legitimate.

I hope they change the approach once they actually have players available. They didn’t have anyone better so the habs pkayed KK snd Slaf in the NHL whether it made sense or not.

The big difference is that they sheltered Kotkaniemi for the first year and expected him to play tough minutes his second year with no transition. I doubt it made sense to have Slaf in the NHL his first year other than lacking options, but at least they worked with him the following year. The problem that comes up is that Slaf, and Guhle, may end up with long term damage from the hits they took in the year or two when they weren’t ready for the big leagues.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Health has nothing to do with the talent level of the team.


No. Habs could very well go quite far in the playoffs the first time they make them.

Crappy could be interpreted different ways. A team who drafted 1rst, 5th and 5th is a crappy team. Habs have interresting players in the future but they still have anchor players who destroys the overall chemistry of the team. A team is the sum of all the parts, so sorry to be contrarian but this is a crappy team. A car can have 3 of the best tires of the world and if there is a worn tire on one wheel, it destroys the safety and the road handling of the car. See what I mean?

edit : what I say is right now, when I write this post on august 12-2024, this team is a crappy team.

 

[LaP]

Decisions will have to be made by the trade deadline about who replaces Dvorak and Armia for the rest of the season at least.

There's a good chance a cap dump will replace them. We will likely have to eat some salary to get max value. We can only retain on 1 contract this year, It's very likely that if Dvorak and/or Armia have a good season they will be traded to teams who have to replace a bad contract to an old player who hit a major wall this year.

 

[Sorinth]

I’m about done revisiting the past re: Slaf but what I never understood was how people would conflate the argument you lay out:

1. It could be that he was on a “development plan”
2. But whatever he was on, he did not play well and he got a major injury in his rookie year

Both things can be true but objective fact 2 is true. He didn’t play well in his rookie season and he had a serious injury. Whether the team felt the growing pains were part of his development and therefore necessary — I can buy that. But the whole “emperor’s new clothes” routine where Slaf’s rookie year is revised as “good”… no way. He simply wasn’t an NHLer when he was played in the NHL.

In the very near future we will see if this new systemic approach to developing talents will actually change the paradigm. I think teams with sufficient depth or no fear of failing (tanking) can afford to “rush” prospects, so maybe it’s a way to catalyze a player’s development and therefore legitimate.

Playing good/bad is always a subjective opinion and therefore not a fact. And personally I don't think it's a revised opinion to say his rookie year was ok or even good, it's all about expectations and how much you believe role influences play. It's very tough to produce while playing on the 4th line (Beyond a hot streak) and I would point out he produced like a 4th liner is expected to produce so saying he simply wasn't an NHL level player doesn't seem right. He was an adequate 4th line player in his rookie year, obviously not what you want from a 1st OA pick, but still not as bad as you are presenting his play to be.

The thing about a player being "rushed" isn't about whether they struggle or not (And yes Slaf had struggles), it's about whether they can learn the right way to play. The ideal learning environment is one where you are challenged but can learn the right things from those challenges and start to apply them. Slaf did that, and we were seeing progress throughout that half season so I don't think the term rushed should apply. Whereas if you remember Mete, he was rushed because even though he could play ok at the NHL level in order to be ok he had to play extremely safe all the time and could only tread water, whereas Slaf was swimming (Not well at times) but still moving forward. With guys like Galchenyuk and Kotkaniemi it's harder to say because on the one hand they didn't develop at the NHL level which is the #1 sign of being rushed, but on the other hand it didn't seem like it was the level of play being too high like it was in Mete's case so was more of a coaching/player buy in problem which likely isn't going to be fixed by playing at a lower level for a few years.

 

[Rapala]

Crappy could be interpreted different ways. A team who drafted 1rst, 5th and 5th is a crappy team. Habs have interresting players in the future but they still have anchor players who destroys the overall chemistry of the team. A team is the sum of all the parts, so sorry to be contrarian but this is a crappy team. A car can have 3 of the best tires of the world and if there is a worn tire on one wheel, it destroys the safety and the road handling of the car. See what I mean?

edit : what I say is right now, when I write this post on august 12-2024, this team is a crappy team.
View attachment 900496

True but it's also very easy to rate the team and the progress while ignoring the crap that won't be there starting as early as next season.
I'm still hopeful we can take another little dump this season before puck drops on 24/25.
Continually bringing up crap that HuGo had no hand in and have no leverage on is unjust.
Go ahead and rate them on crap of their own making by all means.
HuGo's crap won't become crap until the plug gets pulled on it that hasn't happened yet despite some folks jumping the gun.
Next season is where it all starts happening we'll have a better handle on Barron Dach Newhook etc.
One thing is for sure Hughes has easy outs on all these guys it won't cripple us.

 

[Rapala]

There's a good chance a cap dump will replace them. We will likely have to eat some salary to get max value. We can only retain on 1 contract this year, It's very likely that if Dvorak and/or Armia have a good season they will be traded to teams who have to replace a bad contract to an old player who hit a major wall this year.

Dvorak at max value isn't worth much.
Armia could garner some interest if his game remains as strong as his last season ended.
A team knocking on the door like Edmonton could pony up for his services.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

True but it's also very easy to rate the team and the progress while ignoring the crap that won't be there starting as early as next season.
I'm still hopeful we can take another little dump this season before puck drops on 24/25.
Continually bringing up crap that HuGo had no hand in and have no leverage on is unjust.
Go ahead and rate them on crap of their own making by all means.
HuGo's crap won't become crap until the plug gets pulled on it that hasn't happened yet despite some folks jumping the gun.
Next season is where it all starts happening we'll have a better handle on Barron Dach Newhook etc.
One thing is for sure Hughes has easy outs on all these guys it won't cripple us.

I'm not saying HuGo are doing a bad job. I know very well they have their hands tieds with bad contracts left by Bergy. Under the circonstances, they are doing a perfecty job and I beleive the team goes toward a good direction. Being that said, they are actually a crappy team, as the moment I write this post. It's gonna change pretty soon, next year at the same time we will see a difference. And the year after, and the year after. I'm confident.

 

[LaP]

I think way too many of our fans rate the team based on what's known instead of potential. We are rebuilding nothing is known and it would be in my very humble opinion foolish to address holes before we know what the holes are.

People say we lack depth in the top 6. This is true this year. It might not be in 2025-26. Dach pace since he's been here is 55 points every 82 games. He's still only 23 and always projected as a potential top 6 player with size. There's a lot of things that must go right before he becomes a real top 6 but acting like it could not happen is being negative instead of realist.

Newhook pace since he's been here is 51 points every 82 games and like Dach he is only 23. Again lot of things must go right for him to be a solid top 6 but he projected as one when he was drafted and could still easily become one. He's an elite skater and having one elite attribute is always a major plus to become a top 6. Both Newhook and Dach must remain healthy and figure a few things out but acting like there's no way they become top 6 player is beging overly negative for no reason.

Then next year we'll add Demidov. All our young dmen will be between 20 and 23 this season and they are all still progressing. It's a very young defense that has lot of potential. Denying this is being not reasonable. As for bottom 6 depth we have a couple of prospects who project as bottom 6 guys. Roy, Mesar, Beck, Xhekaj, Kapanen, Heineman, Tuch. Most of them will flop but we should be able to salvage two quality bottom 6 players in the lot.

We'll need to adress a few things in 2025-26 but i think some posters are being overly negative and forget most of our young players are 22 and less and are not finished product yet. Trying to fix holes with 3-4 years contract to old vets this year was not making any sense imo. We don't know what the holes are and by the time we know those vets will be on the wrong side of 30ies and might be bad contracts moving forward.

Waiting was the sensible thing to do. We'll have a better picture of Dach and Newhook at the end of next season. In 2025-26 lot of our young players will be 23-24 and be ready to, with the help of vets, win more games and try to make the playoffs and the picture about what we have and what we lack will be much clearer.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Crappy could be interpreted different ways. A team who drafted 1rst, 5th and 5th is a crappy team. Habs have interresting players in the future but they still have anchor players who destroys the overall chemistry of the team. A team is the sum of all the parts, so sorry to be contrarian but this is a crappy team. A car can have 3 of the best tires of the world and if there is a worn tire on one wheel, it destroys the safety and the road handling of the car. See what I mean?

edit : what I say is right now, when I write this post on august 12-2024, this team is a crappy team.
View attachment 900496

Most of the players they have that don't fit the rebuild do not destroy the overall chemistry. Anderson, Gallagher and Armia are not problems in that way. Dvorak may be but he will be gone by rhe end of the season.

 

[Walksss]

I will continue to say that for me the most impressive part of Hugo's tenure is their ability to ignore fanbase and media pressure and stick to their plan.

If this year ends up in the bottom third of the league and we can sell off Dvorak, Savard, and Armia for quality assets as well as have another quality pick that will be a massive win and set us up for a huge competitive window.

It sucks to wait but I honestly believe this is all gonna be worth it when we're a dominant team. Besides there always a chance that these kids progress enough to consistently compete in the league and challenge for a playoff spot this year.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think way too many of our fans rate the team based on what's known instead of potential. We are rebuilding nothing is known and it would be in my very humble opinion foolish to address holes before we know what the holes are.

People say we lack depth in the top 6. This is true this year. It might not be in 2025-26. Dach pace since he's been here is 55 points every 82 games. He's still only 23 and always projected as a potential top 6 player with size. There's a lot of things that must go right before he becomes a real top 6 but acting like it could not happen is being negative instead of realist.

Newhook pace since he's been here is 51 points every 82 games and like Dach he is only 23. Again lot of things must go right for him to be a solid top 6 but he projected as one when he was drafted and could still easily become one. He's an elite skater and having one elite attribute is always a major plus to become a top 6. Both Newhook and Dach must remain healthy and figure a few things out but acting like there's no way they become top 6 player is beging overly negative for no reason.

Then next year we'll add Demidov. All our young dmen will be between 20 and 23 this season and they are all still progressing. It's a very young defense that has lot of potential. Denying this is being not reasonable. As for bottom 6 depth we have a couple of prospects who project as bottom 6 guys. Roy, Mesar, Beck, Xhekaj, Kapanen, Heineman, Tuch. Most of them will flop but we should be able to salvage two quality bottom 6 players in the lot.

We'll need to adress a few things in 2025-26 but i think some posters are being overly negative and forget most of our young players are 22 and less and are not finished product yet. Trying to fix holes with 3-4 years contract to old vets this year was not making any sense imo. We don't know what the holes are and by the time we know those vets will be on the wrong side of 30ies and might be bad contracts moving forward.

Waiting was the sensible thing to do. We'll have a better picture of Dach and Newhook at the end of next season. In 2025-26 lot of our young players will be 23-24 and be ready to, with the help of vets, win more games and try to make the playoffs and the picture about what we have and what we lack will be much clearer.

Preach!

I will continue to say that for me the most impressive part of Hugo's tenure is their ability to ignore fanbase and media pressure and stick to their plan.

If this year ends up in the bottom third of the league and we can sell off Dvorak, Savard, and Armia for quality assets as well as have another quality pick that will be a massive win and set us up for a huge competitive window.

It sucks to wait but I honestly believe this is all gonna be worth it when we're a dominant team. Besides there always a chance that these kids progress enough to consistently compete in the league and challenge for a playoff spot this year.

Completely different than the last regime. I love the patience they've shown.

 

[LaP]

Preach!


Completely different than the last regime. I love the patience they've shown.

The last regime did show patience. A little bit too much patience.

It's important to not rewrite history. When MB came in they did ice kids and they did show patience and the kids were developing well Subban, AG and Gallagher made progress in every one of their first 4 seasons. Up until i'd say the summer of 2016 and the 2016-2017 season MB maganement was imo not doing bad at all. For me the first sign of crack was the 2016-17 season where MB had to go in and fix holes but instead at the deadline acquired Ott, Martinsen and King in what should be considered the biggest joke of a deadline ever.

After the collapse of the 2015-16 season it was clear as day that DD was not the answer. Price was 27, Patch 26, Subban 26, AG 21, Gallagher 23, Eller 26, Petry 27, Plekanec 32 and Markov 36. It was time to go in as the core was slowly aging. The argument that AG was not a center was stupid. If they did not believe in him as a center they had to trade him after his 30 goals season on the wing. Instead of trading him in the summer of 2016 after a 30 goals season as a winger they waited for him to collapse as a center the following year under Bouboule Julien and traded him for a similar problem during the summer of 2017.

It seems to me MB broke during the collapse of 2015-2016 and did not believe in his core anymore and did not want to go in with this core. But the problem is every core will have weaknesses and holes to fix. Instead of retooling the whole team he should have tried to fix the holes. He pretty much traded everyone (Patch, Subban, Eller, ...) for kiritkr and lidership (like if it was the main problem) then went all in with a 33 years old Price and 35 years old Weber, The main problem was and always had been that the core did not have a first line center (DD was a questionable NHL player not good enough defensively as a top 6 and did not have the intangibles you look for as a bottom 6).

He should have went all in after the 2015-2016 debacle and worked on fixing holes OR rebuild. He did neither of that he instead retooled the whole team and made it older and went all in at 5 minutes to midnight with guys who retired after the cup final. He was too patient with his coaches, too patient with his drafting team and waited to much to trade valuable kids his mangement did not believe in. If KH doesn't go in when Suzuki will turn 27 then i'll criticize him like i did with MB.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The last regime did show patience. A little bit too much patience.

It's important to not rewrite history. When MB came in they did ice kids and they did show patience and the kids were developing well Subban, AG and Gallagher made progress in every one of their first 4 seasons. Up until i'd say the summer of 2016 and the 2016-2017 season MB maganement was imo not doing bad at all. For me the first sign of crack was the 2016-17 season where MB had to go in and fix holes but instead at the deadline acquired Ott, Martinsen and King in what should be considered the biggest joke of a deadline ever.

After the collapse of the 2015-16 season it was clear as day that DD was not the answer. Price was 27, Patch 26, Subban 26, AG 21, Gallagher 23, Eller 26, Petry 27, Plekanec 32 and Markov 36. It was time to go in as the core was slowly aging. The argument that AG was not a center was stupid. If they did not believe in him as a center they had to trade him after his 30 goals season on the wing. Instead of trading him in the summer of 2016 after a 30 goals season as a winger they waited for him to collapse as a center the following year under Bouboule Julien and traded him for a similar problem during the summer of 2017.

It seems to me MB broke during the collapse of 2015-2016 and did not believe in his core anymore and did not want to go in with this core. But the problem is every core will have weaknesses and holes to fix. Instead of retooling the whole team he should have tried to fix the holes. He pretty much traded everyone (Patch, Subban, Eller, ...) for kiritkr and lidership (like if it was the main problem) then went all in with a 33 years old Price and 35 years old Weber, The main problem was and always had been that the core did not have a first line center (DD was a questionable NHL player not good enough defensively as a top 6 and did not have the intangibles you look for as a bottom 6).

He should have went all in after the 2015-2016 debacle and worked on fixing holes OR rebuild. He did neither of that he instead retooled the whole team and made it older and went all in at 5 minutes to midnight with guys who retired after the cup final. He was too patient with his coaches, too patient with his drafting team and waited to much to trade valuable kids his mangement did not believe in. If KH doesn't go in when Suzuki will turn 27 then i'll criticize him like i did with MB.

It depends one what you mean by patience.

They gave Galchenyuk ten games as a first line center and he killed it. Then they moved him back to third line wing. They'd play a rookie and bench him if he made a mistake.

They had a lot of patience with Desharnais.

 

[HabbyGuy]

The Montreal Canadiens are sleeping giants, let the optimistic hyperbole fly. Not sure if @KevSkillz4 is the narrator of video, but it's "heart warming" to listen to.

I've personally decided to drink the kool-aid.

 

[KevSkillz4]

The Montreal Canadiens are sleeping giants, let the optimistic hyperbole fly. Not sure if @KevSkillz4 is the narrator of video, but it's "heart warming" to listen to.

I've personally decided to drink the kool-aid.

I approve this video !

Gorton and Hughes build something special!!

 

[Scintillating10]

I think we see decent hockey this season. Not good hockey, but .500 hockey. We can't forever be wrecked with major injuries. Last 3 years injuries been crazy.

 

[Sorinth]

I think we see decent hockey this season. Not good hockey, but .500 hockey. We can't forever be wrecked with major injuries. Last 3 years injuries been crazy.

It's easy to forget but we were basically a .500 team until mid-Feb. On Feb 14th we were 1 game below .500 sitting at a 0.491 P%. with 53 games played. Every reason to think we should be a .500 team even with a normal amount of injuries.

 

[Milhouse40]

I've put a B in this thread....now it's an A

I wasn't even interested in Laine, not at all. Still have a whole lot of reservations regarding his overall health. But there's was a surplus of D and a trade was needed. For me that trade was kind of the missing piece for a very good summer for Kent Hugues

Jordan Harris for a 2nd round pick was more than enough for me.
The rest is just pure voodoo shit....once again.

 

[Scintillating10]

I've put a B in this thread....now it's an A

I wasn't even interested in Laine, not at all. Still have a whole lot of reservations regarding his overall health. But there's was a surplus of D and a trade was needed. For me that trade was kind of the missing piece for a very good summer for Kent Hugues

Jordan Harris for a 2nd round pick was more than enough for me.
The rest is just pure voodoo shit....once again.

I think Laine do good, predict he scores 40 this season.

 

[waitin425]

Laine....40 goal potential
Caufield.....40 goal potential
Slaf.....35 goal potential
Suzuki....35 goal potential
Dach.....30 goal potential
Demi......who the hell knows???

What is happening here???

Are we an offensive powerhouse?

 

[SwiftyHab]

What is happening here???

Are we an offensive powerhouse?

In theory yes but…

 

[DAChampion]

If this year ends up in the bottom third of the league and we can sell off Dvorak, Savard, and Armia for quality assets as well as have another quality pick that will be a massive win and set us up for a huge competitive window.

I think that if Dvorak, Armia, and Savard play well enough to garner substantial value at the deadline, then the Habs will likely be a bubble team at worst.

Now that the Habs acquired Laine, I expect them to be a bubble team, because they now have a top six that can lose one player to injury and still be effective.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

We should do all we can to get Askarov. He is the perfect age and stage of development to push our rebuild at the next level. I like Fowler but he is at best 2 years from NHL and maybe 4 or 5 years until he is a decent NHL starter if everything goes well. I would still try to retain him though in case Askarov is not able to become the main goaltender.