The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

What note you give to Kent Hughes' Rebuild? ?

  • A

    Votes: 212 47.5%
  • B

    Votes: 163 36.5%
  • C

    Votes: 50 11.2%
  • D

    Votes: 9 2.0%
  • E

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • F

    Votes: 14 3.1%

  • Total voters
    446

The Great Weal

Phil's Pizza
Jan 15, 2015
55,820
72,170
Martone + Desnoyers and call it a day
That would be fantastic, but we would have to make some massive trades to make it viable.

Suzuki/Demidov/Martone/Desnoyers/Slaf are probably the 5 forwards we would definitely keep in this scenario. But how many of CC/Dach/Hage/Roy/Laine do you keep? Especially given how besides Laine, Suzuki would be the only forward with a ton of NHL experience. Keep in mind that the defense would be Hutson, Guhle, Reinbacher, Mailloux, and Engstrom which is extremely weak in comparison.
 

Vachon23

Registered User
Oct 14, 2015
19,413
23,999
Victoriaville
That would be fantastic, but we would have to make some massive trades to make it viable.

Suzuki/Demidov/Martone/Desnoyers/Slaf are probably the 5 forwards we would definitely keep in this scenario. But how many of CC/Dach/Hage/Roy/Laine do you keep? Especially given how besides Laine, Suzuki would be the only forward with a ton of NHL experience. Keep in mind that the defense would be Hutson, Guhle, Reinbacher, Mailloux, and Engstrom which is extremely weak in comparison.
I would make a move for a RD with experience and for the forward, all this is very hypothetical.
Laine is not someone I necassey see as a long term solution
 

StreetHawk

Registered User
Sep 30, 2017
29,734
11,556
I would make a move for a RD with experience and for the forward, all this is very hypothetical.
Laine is not someone I necassey see as a long term solution
Based on Reinbacher missing a large chunk of this season, it will be tougher for him to be NHL ready in 25/26. Barron hasn't exactly taken a step forward yet. So, with Savard a ufa, at this point, they just can't swap his spot in for a kid. They need to bring in a vet to replace his spot in the lineup. Need some stability back there.

It may have to be via trade over a free agent signing.
 

Grate n Colorful Oz

Pure Laine Hutson
Jun 12, 2007
36,717
35,486
Hockey Mecca
Reinbacher would likely flirt with NHL time this year if not for his unfortunate injury. Suzuki, Caufield, and Guhle are not youngsters any more -- the Habs didn't start with zero prospects.

The tanking phase, ie Management Shrugs Its Shoulders After Losses, should be over
but as long as the fans don't mind, management won't mind losing for longer.

The point is not that they started with nothing and this is ultimately your blindspot, along with other people, where you fail to realize that what we had wasn't close to righting the ship by simply developing them. Even with them on board, we had multiple holes to fill and it would take more than 3 drafts 1- to get the players we need, 2- to let them integrate the lineup and develop, which there are only two of so far, Slaf and Lane. This doesn't come even close to re-establish a solid asset base. This nonsense where you decided its enough is pure fantasy and irrealistic.

Even with Laine, Dach, Newhook, Slaf and Hutson added we're still far from done. Still need to add more talent and that talent needs to be developed.

Before Bergevin left, our asset base was already subpar and our D was very old and the most problematic of our components. It's still problematic today and one would be foolish to expect that kind of problem to be fixed in 3 years time.

We've only added two players from our first draft. They are still very young. This isn't even close to enough to fill the holes.
 
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Grate n Colorful Oz

Pure Laine Hutson
Jun 12, 2007
36,717
35,486
Hockey Mecca
One thing for sure, next f***ing draft i want size and grit. No more f***ing Farrel, Kidney of this world. We have a shit load of those players.

Lol we're destined to draft James Hagens so the whole board will go nuts because we have too many small players. Those damn hockey gods.
 
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Trenbohabs

Registered User
Sep 25, 2024
90
75
The point is not that they started with nothing and this is ultimately your blindspot, along with other people, where you fail to realize that what we had wasn't close to righting the ship by simply developing them. Even with them on board, we had multiple holes to fill and it would take more than 3 drafts 1- to get the players we need, 2- to let them integrate the lineup and develop, which there are only two of so far, Slaf and Lane. This doesn't come even close to re-establish a solid asset base. This nonsense where you decided its enough is pure fantasy and irrealistic.

Even with Laine, Dach, Newhook, Slaf and Hutson added we're still far from done. Still need to add more talent and that talent needs to be developed.

Before Bergevin left, our asset base was already subpar and our D was very old and the most problematic of our components. It's still problematic today and one would be foolish to expect that kind of problem to be fixed in 3 years time.

We've only added two players from our first draft. They are still very young. This isn't even close to enough to fill the holes.
It's fun when you're not here to troll people. Good arguments.

If it was of my I wouldve traded Caufield or Suzuki like the hawks did for the biggest draft since 15 years in 2023. Getting a top 3 pick in that draft wouldve changed the team completly. Now we are stuck with no number 1 center. This team might make the playoffs in the 2026-2027 season and might have a cup run around 2030-2031.

Lets have a real talk here, Suzuki was named captain by kind of default, hes not a true captain, his personality is really shitty and his engagement does not represent a good captain. He will be our 4th best forward when we make it to the last 4 in playoffs and he will be a 70 pts producer at best.
 
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ReHabs

Registered User
Sponsor
Jan 18, 2022
8,602
13,018
The point is not that they started with nothing and this is ultimately your blindspot, along with other people, where you fail to realize that what we had wasn't close to righting the ship by simply developing them. Even with them on board, we had multiple holes to fill and it would take more than 3 drafts 1- to get the players we need, 2- to let them integrate the lineup and develop, which there are only two of so far, Slaf and Lane.
Okay, I have a proposition. First let's find out the topics with which we are in accord and agree:

1. "They didn't start with nothing" which = they started with some valuable players/prospect that would've otherwise been necessary to pick-up during the rebuild.

2. "There were multiple holes to fill on the roster" = the roster they inherited needed significant churning

3. "and it would take more than 3 drafts..." = it takes time before the products of the tank, specifically them, are contributing to the roster

I agree with all three statements.

I think where we have issue is, as always online, with the definition of Rebuild and the definition of Tank. I didn't say the rebuild is over, you interpreted that from what I did say, which was: "The tanking phase, ie Management Shrugs Its Shoulders After Losses, should be over". Not the same thing mon chum, not the same thing.
This doesn't come even close to re-establish a solid asset base. This nonsense where you decided its enough is pure fantasy and irrealistic.

Even with Laine, Dach, Newhook, Slaf and Hutson added we're still far from done. Still need to add more talent and that talent needs to be developed.

Before Bergevin left, our asset base was already subpar and our D was very old and the most problematic of our components. It's still problematic today and one would be foolish to expect that kind of problem to be fixed in 3 years time.

We've only added two players from our first draft. They are still very young. This isn't even close to enough to fill the holes.
I did not say the rebuild is over. I said Tanking should be over. It is my opinion, you're welcome to disagree with that statement, but your comments above are basically irrelevant to my sentiment.

I don't even disagree that we shouldn't be buying (which is what you imply with "solid asset base"). I don't disagree that we're still far from done. I don't disagree that we need to add more talent, or that we need a better 'asset base', and that it's a longer-term process. And obviously I don't disagree that two players from the 2022 draft could possibly fill all our holes (forgive the innuendo).

You're welcome to disagree with me on the tanking comment but I don't see the arguments that lead one to think the Habs 1) intended to tank this year or 2) even should have planned to tank this year.

Suzuki is in his D+8. He and the rest of this roster need to start playing with different expectations. MSL literally said this today. HugoMo said "in the mix" over summer. They traded for Laine. I don't think I'm out to lunch when saying the tanking phase is over. You're welcome to change my mind.
 

ReHabs

Registered User
Sponsor
Jan 18, 2022
8,602
13,018
Just want to highlight that no rebuild by any team starts with zero prospects/young NHLers. So it doesn't make sense to say we didn't start at zero so our rebuild should be shorter/faster then other successful rebuilds, because those successful rebuilds also didn't start at zero.
Please see my reply above. I never said the rebuild is over, because it clearly is not over: we are not remotely close to being "Buyers".
 
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417

Sheeeeeeeeeeeit!!!!!
Feb 20, 2003
52,607
30,787
Ottawa
There is no next step - you stay the course because the rebuild is only half over.

What did people think was going to happen, here? It was always a five-year rebuild, and we just started year three.
I'd argue it's barely begun.
 

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
79,920
51,929
Some could say... [dramatic pause]... the rebuild will never end.
Those people have the patience of a gnat. They’d be the same people who did a game by game comparison of Slaf in his first year. Nonsensical and doom casting. Those same people look very foolish now.

We’re three drafts in and have one of the deepest prospect pools in the league.

If we have a rough season, that’s okay. This is what rebuilding looks like.
 

417

Sheeeeeeeeeeeit!!!!!
Feb 20, 2003
52,607
30,787
Ottawa
Those people have the patience of a gnat. They’d be the same people who did a game by game comparison of Slaf in his first year. Nonsensical and doom casting. Those same people look very foolish now.

We’re three drafts in and have one of the deepest prospect pools in the league.

If we have a rough season, that’s okay. This is what rebuilding looks like.
Three drafts in and of those 3 drafts...

- 30 players drafted
- 145 games played (130 by Slaf, 14 by Hutson , 1 by Beck)

Why would anyone act like this rebuild has even really gotten started yet is exactly why this market has never truly gone through a rebuild.

The majority of fans don't understand it, don't have the patience for it and are too emotional to to participate in process that needs to be pragmatic and not reactionary.
 

Lshap

Hardline Moderate
Jun 6, 2011
28,272
27,620
Montreal
I did not say the rebuild is over. I said Tanking should be over.
I agree, and this point gets misunderstood. Many key players of the rebuild are already on the team. Suzuki, Caufield, Slafkovsky, Dach, Newhook, Guhle, Struble, and Xhekaj. These aren't rookies. Some improvement is expected. If so, the team should improve incrementally. Nobody's expecting us to win this season. Forget playoffs and 'in the mix'. I'm just talking about moving up slowly, not languishing at the bottom once again.

Sure, a lot depends on future players like Demidov, Reinbacher and Hage, and on rookies like Hutson. But even more depends on the current players.

At some point, tanking stops being a strategy and starts becoming a symptom of stagnation.
 

Kobe Armstrong

Registered User
Jul 26, 2011
16,160
7,296
Hughes and Gorton have done such a bad job that we have no choice but to embrace the tank for another 3 seasons.

Hopefully we suck for another couple seasons and fire these clowns and bring in a real GM in time for us to capitalize on the influx of picks/prospects.

A real GM with all of these assets could put a team together quickly
 
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417

Sheeeeeeeeeeeit!!!!!
Feb 20, 2003
52,607
30,787
Ottawa
No it's only been two years! The first 6 months don't count they were just the alpha phase!
The first 6 months they took over a team in last place and you, and everyone else in here, wanted them to finish last overall so they could pick 1st.

So you can count them all you want, just don't try to re-write history.
 

junyab

Registered User
Jan 22, 2013
2,060
1,264
There's no clear definition of a "rebuild" so you can't really attach a start or end date to it.

But for me, the rebuild begins in 1 scenario; when you draft a superstar. To me that would be Slaf or Demidov, but neither have proven to be one yet.

And the rebuild ends when you have enough talent in your current roster and prospect pool to fill out an entire contender, and we don't have that yet.

So IMO we don't really know where we are yet. We could be in the middle of a rebuild, or just beginning. In either scenario I still just want to pile up high draft picks so I'm not too upset we're having another losing season.
 

Mrb1p

PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Dec 10, 2011
91,967
59,057
Citizen of the world
The first 6 months they took over a team in last place and you, and everyone else in here, wanted them to finish last overall so they could pick 1st.

So you can count them all you want, just don't try to re-write history.
I'm not trying to rewrite anything. Competing teams don't have 3 2nd rounders in multiple years.
 

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