The state of the Habs Rebuild - The Next step

[Bouboumaster]

Since Gallagher is actually playing well this year, and with Josh Anderson not being as bad as the last couple of years, who should be the team Whipping Boy this year?

Dvorak?

 

[HabsCode]

Since Gallagher is actually playing well this year, and with Josh Anderson not being as bad as the last couple of years, who should be the team Whipping Boy this year?

Dvorak?

The usual suspects: Dvorak, Matheson, Armia

 

[Tabarouette]

Armia doesn't get enough shit tbh, Dvorak has *some* defensive value (not a lot), Armia is unbelievably useless this year

 

[Bouboumaster]

I think Armia is playing well, I don't consider him as part of the problem

 

[Runner77]

I don't entirely disagree but this is what a rebuild looks like. I know some people think you just snap your fingers and everyone collectively starts playing better, but this team isn't at that point yet.

They're still stuck between young promising players and washed up veterans. It's still very much a work in progress and everyone knew this coming into this year and it became even more true after losing Laine in the preseason. This is essentially the same team that finished 5th worst last year + Hutson - Jake Allen (who brought stability in goaltending that we're just not getting right now from either goalie).

We don't know how things will unfold...they might look this bad for the next 50 games and some time in February, will start to turn the corner. That's just how it goes.

This is the path we all wanted, can't just get off the ride cause it gets bumpy.

I signed up for the rebuild and am on board with how ugly it can get. I’m not cheering for anything else but for talent to develop, for even more elite level talent to join the fold and for management to stay the course. All the better if they can win sooner rather than later, using their intended strategy.

This “in the mix” BS has caused unnecessary expectations from some fans and smacks of yet another of Geoff’s failed marketing schemes. We all know rebuilds take time, are sinewy and can be eyesores, but so long as rebuilding is what they are doing, then it’s understood that it’s toward a future contending roster that can stay competitive for the long run.

I’m willing to see the process through but I also accept that this is not what some fans want. However, Montreal is not a destination market and the other ways have been tried — so building from within looks to me the best way to go in order to end up with a solid nucleus and be able to hang on to it.

 

[StreetHawk]

That is something Gorton and Hughes should have been in on with Molson. Set the expectations properly.

For the vets if the production isn’t there anymore that is one thing. But they need to continue to be pros. Still need to show the kids how to prepare, practice, workout, commit to nutrition, get their rest, etc.

Hardest part of the rebuild is putting the pieces together while trying to turn the corner to a PO team.

 

[montreal]

I think Armia is playing well, I don't consider him as part of the problem

He's 31 and last year was his 2nd longest season of his career at 66 games and only the 3rd time in his career he played more then 60 games in any regular season.

 

[Nicko999]

Hagens/Misa/Martone are gone top 3, and we're probably not getting a pick in that range.

Spence I could see us getting if Flames' pick is right outside the top 10.

But Desnoyers I think will get taken in the top 10 given how good he's been at both ends of the ice this year so I really don't think we'll have a chance at him with our second pick in the first round.

Unless we add to that pick in a trade, or teams drafting higher than us suddenly stop valuing two-way centers with skills, size, smarts, skating ability, a decent shot, and no real flaw.

I will give you Fiddler and Tretheway though, that we could realistically target if we trade our 2nds+ to get a pick in the 20s.

But unfortunately, there is no "boom and done" about it.

There is a chance we get a top 3 pick. We are right there with SJ and Chicago for worst team.

I don't believe there is a clear cut #1 for now (Hagens slightly ahead) so not winning the lottery would be OK.

 

[The Last Red]

Hagens/Misa/Martone are gone top 3, and we're probably not getting a pick in that range.

Spence I could see us getting if Flames' pick is right outside the top 10.

But Desnoyers I think will get taken in the top 10 given how good he's been at both ends of the ice this year so I really don't think we'll have a chance at him with our second pick in the first round.

Unless we add to that pick in a trade, or teams drafting higher than us suddenly stop valuing two-way centers with skills, size, smarts, skating ability, a decent shot, and no real flaw.

I will give you Fiddler and Tretheway though, that we could realistically target if we trade our 2nds+ to get a pick in the 20s.

But unfortunately, there is no "boom and done" about it.

Have you seen us play this year? We definitely have a chance at a top 3-5 pick (our own).

 

[Habs13]

I feel like the Habs are going down the rebuild route of the Leafs where we are getting lots of skilled perimeter players and no one willing to get garbage goals or pay the price. Yeah we have Gallagher but he isnt on the top 6. Well get Demidov in here and hes another incredibly talented skill player that wont grind it out in the crease. The habs need someone like Hyman. This added to the lack of grit or tenacity in the habs culture is going to just spell failure in the playoffs when perimeter goals gets scarce.

We really need Tuch and F.Xhekaj to hit, at the very least

 

[Riggins]

Current point projections from the Athletic. Habs T-3rd and Calgary 12th. Sign me up NOW! (Columns represent projected goal differential, points, odds to make playoffs, odds to win Cup).

 

[themilosh]

Damn, how great would it be to pick up Hagens/Malone/Misa this year.. the final piece to our top 6.
Stop crying guys - we arent moving up. We are not going to be anything more than a bottom feeder this year..

We have yet to fill our top 6 with "true" game changers.. right now the only top 6 we have are:
CC - suzuki - Slaf - Laine - Demidov.
Bubble: Dach (only as wing)

Outside the above players, nobody in our roster even comes close to an NHL top 6.

We also have complete, absolute garbage for a bottom 6:
Dvo- Andy- newhook- Gally- pez. They need to go, like yesterday..

Bottom 6 value:
Roy- Evans- Beck- Hage- Heinmann- Xhekaj- Xhekaj- Tuch.

Bottom 6 garbage: Mesar- kidney- trudeau. These guys are AHLers at best.. Mesar might have trade value for a 3rd rounder..

 

[WinterLion]

Current point projections from the Athletic. Habs T-3rd and Calgary 12th. Sign me up NOW! (Columns represent projected goal differential, points, odds to make playoffs, odds to win Cup).

View attachment 925925

That's basically what Vegas said at the start of the year (75pts).... why are we all freaking out? Embrace it!

 

[themilosh]

That's basically what Vegas said at the start of the year (75pts).... why are we all freaking out? Embrace it!

I think the big takeaway in the post was that CGY finishing 12thoa.. just to confirm, do we get CGY pick if not top10?

If im Hugo i am sending them a gift at the TDL if it keeps them out of the top10.. lol

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I signed up for the rebuild and am on board with how ugly it can get. I’m not cheering for anything else but for talent to develop, for even more elite level talent to join the fold and for management to stay the course. All the better if they can win sooner rather than later, using their intended strategy.

This “in the mix” BS has caused unnecessary expectations from some fans and smacks of yet another of Geoff’s failed marketing schemes. We all know rebuilds take time, are sinewy and can be eyesores, but so long as rebuilding is what they are doing, then it’s understood that it’s toward a future contending roster that can stay competitive for the long run.

I’m willing to see the process through but I also accept that this is not what some fans want. However, Montreal is not a destination market and the other ways have been tried — so building from within looks to me the best way to go in order to end up with a solid nucleus and be able to hang on to it.

I expected improvement this year. And we may still see it. If we don’t though it’s not the end of the world. Sometimes you wind up taking a step back.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

I signed up for the rebuild and am on board with how ugly it can get. I’m not cheering for anything else but for talent to develop, for even more elite level talent to join the fold and for management to stay the course. All the better if they can win sooner rather than later, using their intended strategy.

This “in the mix” BS has caused unnecessary expectations from some fans and smacks of yet another of Geoff’s failed marketing schemes. We all know rebuilds take time, are sinewy and can be eyesores, but so long as rebuilding is what they are doing, then it’s understood that it’s toward a future contending roster that can stay competitive for the long run.

I’m willing to see the process through but I also accept that this is not what some fans want. However, Montreal is not a destination market and the other ways have been tried — so building from within looks to me the best way to go in order to end up with a solid nucleus and be able to hang on to it.

Just to piggyback on your point a bit, only 1 of the 3 Habs top 5 picks is actually playing in the NHL. How can the rebuild be over if the main prospects haven't even cracked the lineup yet? So much impatience, but the reality is that the main glut of players on this current team are still the same mediocre vets that have been here the past 3 years.

 

[LaP]

I think the big takeaway in the post was that CGY finishing 12thoa.. just to confirm, do we get CGY pick if not top10?

If im Hugo i am sending them a gift at the TDL if it keeps them out of the top10.. lol

Yes we get their pick if they draft 11th and later.

 

[Habs]

I think Armia is playing well, I don't consider him as part of the problem

you forgot an 'LOL' at the end sir

 

[Sorinth]

Open the tank thread

My 2cents is that it's too early for management to decide to tank this season, and as a fan I'm not going to be cheering for losses yet either. That said I have no problems with there being a tank thread because it's clearly something a lot of posters want to talk about. Although I do wonder what the actual differences would be between a tank thread and this thread anyways.

 

[LaP]

I expected improvement this year. And we may still see it. If we don’t though it’s not the end of the world. Sometimes you wind up taking a step back.

NJ last year is a good example. Hamilton missed the entire eyar. They overestimated how ready the kids behind him were.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

NJ last year is a good example. Hamilton missed the entire eyar. They overestimated how ready the kids behind him were.

Also Akira Schmidt was their #1 goalie going into the year...

 

[montreal]

Current point projections from the Athletic. Habs T-3rd and Calgary 12th. Sign me up NOW! (Columns represent projected goal differential, points, odds to make playoffs, odds to win Cup).

View attachment 925925

going into the lottery with 3rd and 12th OA would be sick.

 

[StreetHawk]

NJ last year is a good example. Hamilton missed the entire eyar. They overestimated how ready the kids behind him were.

Montreal really over estimated the step their D kids would take. But, that was a mistake by management as most of the kids were not sure fire, locks for the NHL.

Barron, X, and Struble were still finding their way in the NHL. All could have used playing with a solid veteran to help them develop. Combined about 200 games total for these 3 guys. Then there was Guhle, their best youngster in terms of development so far. And Hutson. All while having 2 seasoned vets. Once one of those 2 and/or Guhle got hurt, it was a mess as the Habs had 4 inexperienced kids in the lineup. Like playing 8 forwards with limited experience.

 

[ReHabs]

Just to piggyback on your point a bit, only 1 of the 3 Habs top 5 picks is actually playing in the NHL. How can the rebuild be over if the main prospects haven't even cracked the lineup yet? So much impatience, but the reality is that the main glut of players on this current team are still the same mediocre vets that have been here the past 3 years.

Reinbacher would likely flirt with NHL time this year if not for his unfortunate injury. Suzuki, Caufield, and Guhle are not youngsters any more -- the Habs didn't start with zero prospects.

The tanking phase, ie Management Shrugs Its Shoulders After Losses, should be over but as long as the fans don't mind, management won't mind losing for longer. It's easier on the organization, easier on the players, and easier on the pocket-book of the owner (ie doesn't need to spend in arms-races, can comfortable slither under the cap).

Seems to me like a lot of fans are fed up of losing and the visible regression... and a small but ferociously loud minority of fans are extremely satisfied with losing and visible regression.

going into the lottery with 3rd and 12th OA would be sick.

It would mean the Habs were putrid this year and didn't step forward one bit and didn't learn to win. Not sure if that's good long-term.

Montreal really over estimated the step their D kids would take. But, that was a mistake by management as most of the kids were not sure fire, locks for the NHL.

I think it was a calculated risk.

The other option was to sign one of those awful July 1st contracts. They made the right decision. Now it's on the coaches to play a tighter and more serious game... this team's country club culture has to stop immediately.

 

[StreetHawk]

I think it was a calculated risk.

The other option was to sign one of those awful July 1st contracts. They made the right decision. Now it's on the coaches to play a tighter and more serious game... this team's country club culture has to stop immediately.

Have to consider history of the Dmen as well. Savard had missed 20 games a season in each of his 3 years with MTL. Not a great sign for a mid 30's Dman. Guhle, still young missed 1/4 of the available games he could have played.

If they thought that they could have 2 of Barron/X/Struble play together and develop/get better, that was probably over estimating things.

The other consideration is that they have Mailloux, Reinbacher also coming. So, if some or most of the D kids don't develop as planned, I can't imagine they just replace Savard with a kid and roll it back with everyone else. Going to have to make some decisions of who to bring back.