Blue Jays Discussion: The "So, How About Them Blue Jays?" Edition. [1.5 Games ahead of Yankees]

[garce]

I know this is stating the obvious, but the division is likely literally coming down to the 7 games against each other.

Outside of the Jays facing a much weaker N.L. opponent, I think the Jays and Yanks are prime to lay significant beatings on those teams.

I'm going to swallow it up and become a huge Red Sox, Orioles and Rays fan when they face the Yankees.

I always cheer for whoever is playing the Yankees. Even Boston.

 

[Dr.Funk]

And what kind of compensation to we have to send Cleveland?

 

[Muston Atthews]

Here is the link to Heyman's story. It appears that Shapiro wants to keep AA.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/25285269/sources-jays-to-name-mark-shapiro-club-president-replacing-beeston

I'd hope he'd want to keep the guy who built the best offense/defense in baseball.

 

[trellaine201]

And what kind of compensation to we have to send Cleveland?

Heard its Stroman

 

[metafour]

but why change what has began to pay dividends?

Beeston's influence has next to no impact on the day-to-day win/loss success of the team, so I'm not sure why a half season turnaround all of a sudden means that it now makes sense to keep him here even longer. Its not like he was the one making the on-field moves. For a guy who's role is business-operations, he's done next to nothing in terms of improving stadium and fan-amenities that are literally years past due. Those are the things you should be judging him on; not the fact that Anthopolous has been able to hit a couple transactional homeruns.

Did Rogers allow the deadline acquisitions because of someone in their corporate office? Or did AA and Beeston work together to get approval from the suits to be bold?

I don't think the suits needed much convincing to be "bold" as Beeston/AA were basically both on their last legs. Remember that Rogers also approved Ricciardi a big final push to put up or shut up, and once his bold moves failed they made big changes. This was the same thing as they've been trying to replace Beeston for a year now; and had the moves flopped Anthopolous would have been out as well with him. Either way, where was Beeston when we made "win now" moves in Martin/Donaldson this past offseason only to follow it up with no significant pitching acquisitions (which were much needed) and an opening day roster that was trying to rely on a frightening number of unproven rookies to fill key roles (Castro coming up from A ball to close, Norris/Sanchez starting, Pompey manning CF, etc)?

The President/CEO is the most important employee for sustained longterm success, and in our situation this is even more important because Rogers is a problematic, fickle owner with few "leaders" who actually know anything about baseball. Getting a guy who actually knows baseball (ie: not an accountant like Beeston) is a priority because Rogers needs a LOT of convincing to spend money. An ageing dinosaur like Beeston has no business running this show anymore; comparing him to other top executives around the league is a joke.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I hope Shapiro throws that 5 year contract limit rule out the window

 

[King Mapes]

I hope Shapiro throws that 5 year contract limit rule out the window

His first test is Price

 

[garce]

Beeston's influence has next to no impact on the day-to-day win/loss success of the team, so I'm not sure why a half season turnaround all of a sudden means that it now makes sense to keep him here even longer. Its not like he was the one making the on-field moves. For a guy who's role is business-operations, he's done next to nothing in terms of improving stadium and fan-amenities that are literally years past due. Those are the things you should be judging him on; not the fact that Anthopolous has been able to hit a couple transactional homeruns.




I don't think the suits needed much convincing to be "bold" as Beeston/AA were basically both on their last legs. Remember that Rogers also approved Ricciardi a big final push to put up or shut up, and once his bold moves failed they made big changes. This was the same thing as they've been trying to replace Beeston for a year now; and had the moves flopped Anthopolous would have been out as well with him. Either way, where was Beeston when we made "win now" moves in Martin/Donaldson this past offseason only to follow it up with no significant pitching acquisitions (which were much needed) and an opening day roster that was trying to rely on a frightening number of unproven rookies to fill key roles (Castro coming up from A ball to close, Norris/Sanchez starting, Pompey manning CF, etc)?

The President/CEO is the most important employee for sustained longterm success, and in our situation this is even more important because Rogers is a problematic, fickle owner with few "leaders" who actually know anything about baseball. Getting a guy who actually knows baseball (ie: not an accountant like Beeston) is a priority because Rogers needs a LOT of convincing to spend money. An ageing dinosaur like Beeston has no business running this show anymore; comparing him to other top executives around the league is a joke.

Beeston presided over two championships, by persuading ownership to spend money under a very smart baseball man in Pat Gillick and now has a legit contender under another smart baseball man in AA. Despite having a problematic fickle owner. Pretty good track record.

 

[Cloned]

Arrieta has a no-hitter through 5.

 

[Woodman19]

I wonder if Shapiro will overhaul the development system.

 

[Cloned]

I wonder if Shapiro will overhaul the development system.

I'd imagine he's going to look at why the Jays can develop pitching but not positional players.

 

[trellaine201]

lots of changes i bet. new guy in town

 

[garce]

Arrieta has a no-hitter through 5.

Lot of no hitters and close this year, might seem that way because every time somebody goes over 4 innings you get a notice on your phone.

 

[trellaine201]

always wondered why so long to get real grass?

 

[Muston Atthews]

always wondered why so long to get real grass?

... argos?

 

[Dr.Funk]

always wondered why so long to get real grass?

Argos

 

[TootooTrain]

I'd imagine he's going to look at why the Jays can develop pitching but not positional players.

We've seen a couple sprouts of late with Pillar, Pompey, and Alford (albiet in potentia). I think it has more to do with the quantity of picks that were used on pitchers, specifically high ones, in contrast to positional players. They've definitely weighed heavily on arms in the last 3-4 years. Hech while not a game breaker, has formed a steady mlb career.

 

[trellaine201]

i think pitchers are worth more aka more value down the road.

 

[garce]

i think pitchers are worth more aka more value down the road.

Look at almost every deal for a established player it's always pitching prospects going the other way. The more you have the better.

 

[metafour]

I'd imagine he's going to look at why the Jays can develop pitching but not positional players.

This is a false premise. You get that impression because ~70% of this team's top draft picks go towards pitching, with that being the case it should be no surprise that we have a system weighted in the side of pitching. They can't develop positional players? Both Dalton Pompey and Anthony Alford are top prospects despite coming into this system as incredibly raw athletes. Franklin Barreto was a star prospect who turned into Josh Donaldson. How about Kevin Pillar? A late round college pick who has surprisingly blossomed into a starting-caliber center fielder. Even Ryan Goins is starting to look like a useful player. Rowdy Tellez was also breaking out before he broke the hamate bone in his hand. You could even go on to state that Yan Gomes was "developed" by the Jays before they ultimately misjudged his upside and shipped him away.

 

[calcal798]

We've seen a couple sprouts of late with Pillar, Pompey, and Alford (albiet in potentia). I think it has more to do with the quantity of picks that were used on pitchers, specifically high ones, in contrast to positional players. They've definitely weighed heavily on arms in the last 3-4 years. Hech while not a game breaker, has formed a steady mlb career.

Often it seems like AA took the position that if he developed pitchers he could just trade them for position players.

 

[Cloned]

This is a false premise. You get that impression because ~70% of this team's top draft picks go towards pitching, with that being the case it should be no surprise that we have a system weighted in the side of pitching. They can't develop positional players? Both Dalton Pompey and Anthony Alford are top prospects despite coming into this system as incredibly raw athletes. Franklin Barreto was a star prospect who turned into Josh Donaldson. How about Kevin Pillar? A late round college pick who has surprisingly blossomed into a starting-caliber center fielder. Even Ryan Goins is starting to look like a useful player. Rowdy Tellez was also breaking out before he broke the hamate bone in his hand. You could even go on to state that Yan Gomes was "developed" by the Jays before they ultimately misjudged his upside and shipped him away.

Well, that's probably one of the reasons Shapiro would identify, right? It's not necessarily a false premise - it's just that the reason is obvious. He may decide to balance the drafting more. Just saying.

 

[garce]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/toronto-blue-jays-2015-mlb-draft-brian-parker-alex-anthopoulos/

 

[The Nemesis]

Well, that's probably one of the reasons Shapiro would identify, right? It's not necessarily a false premise - it's just that the reason is obvious. He may decide to balance the drafting more. Just saying.

I don't know if you necessarily want to balance the drafting more. Pitching is the thing that's always in demand around the league, especially young pitching. And pitching is the position with the highest rate of attrition among prospects vying for major league careers. It makes sense to stack the system with as many young electric arms as you can. Because that's how we ended up seeing the team acquire Price and Tulowitzki and Revere and Hawkins and Lowe and Buehrle and Dickey and also have Sanchez and Osuna and Cecil in the pen. Only Donaldson came at a price that didn't include high end pitching, and even then Graveman and Nolin were both in the deal as secondary pieces and Jays-drafted.

I think that what the team does focusing its draft resources on pitchers is a smart tactic. It gives you the numbers to make trades with the most desirable assets in the system that you can have, and means that even if the vast majority of your prospects will amount to ****-all at the MLB level, the sheer numbers present mean you should still walk away with the one or two success stories that you can integrate into your big league roster (or trade for big league talent)

You go back in time and pick more position guys at the cost of picking some pitchers, and who's to say AA is in a position to assemble the roster he has.

 

[Cloned]

I don't know if you necessarily want to balance the drafting more. Pitching is the thing that's always in demand around the league, especially young pitching. And pitching is the position with the highest rate of attrition among prospects vying for major league careers. It makes sense to stack the system with as many young electric arms as you can. Because that's how we ended up seeing the team acquire Price and Tulowitzki and Revere and Hawkins and Lowe and Buehrle and Dickey and also have Sanchez and Osuna and Cecil in the pen. Only Donaldson came at a price that didn't include high end pitching, and even then Graveman and Nolin were both in the deal as secondary pieces and Jays-drafted.

I think that what the team does focusing its draft resources on pitchers is a smart tactic. It gives you the numbers to make trades with the most desirable assets in the system that you can have, and means that even if the vast majority of your prospects will amount to ****-all at the MLB level, the sheer numbers present mean you should still walk away with the one or two success stories that you can integrate into your big league roster (or trade for big league talent)

You go back in time and pick more position guys at the cost of picking some pitchers, and who's to say AA is in a position to assemble the roster he has.

All I'm saying is that Shapiro may do his evaluation and find several inefficiencies with how the Jays draft and develop. I know what the drafting has allowed us to do but that doesn't mean it can't be even better. They haven't drafted a true high impact positional player in quite some time, and not all of those have to necessarily be first round picks.