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Prospect Info: The Second Overall Pick Thread: Part III (Kakko/Hughes Talk)

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Hischier and Hughes said:
Id say Hughes’ skating can be generational and Kakko’s puck control can be generational

Just like Kane’s hands are generational
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Before labeling Hughes's skating as generational, I'd like to know why he's not been able to be slippery enough to avoid physical confrontation on large ice? This will be even more difficult on small ice. While I had not seen it in his skating, his agility certainly had been advertized for me. What gives?

I'll watch WHCs to the end, but "agility not as advertized" looks likely at this point.
 
I define it as the handful of players that you'll brag to your kids about having to seen play. MarionLemieux fits that bill, but Ron Francis (tremendous player) does not.

I also think Nik Lidstrom would be on many people's lists if he played "more" in the east.
 
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ijuka said:
Before labeling Hughes's skating as generational, I'd like to know why he's not been able to be slippery enough to avoid physical confrontation on large ice? This will be even more difficult on small ice. While I had not seen it in his skating, his agility certainly had been advertized for me. What gives?

I'll watch WHCs to the end, but "agility not as advertized" looks likely at this point.
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Because the ice is total shit. Kakko fell on his own twice today as did a lot of guys. Its like 80 degrees in these arenas.

When your edges are as quick and deep as Hughes and right there with him in Kakko - youll go down easier because youre movement is far more fine tuned and thus the smallest of differences can screw you up.

Also if you were expecting Jack to never get hit that was just a silly expectation. Not to mention the few big hits hes had on him were generally unavoidable as he didnt just have the puck on the move like a sone entry or something
 
IDK about being a generational skater. There have been marginal players that were absolute f***ing wizards on their skates. It was the only thing keeping them in the league. There have also been guys that were amazing skaters that couldn't even make the NHL because they had nothing else.

I'm not saying Hughes isn't a phenomenal skater, but it's tough to label anyone a generational talent in that area because there have just been so many tremendous skaters (power, acceleration, agility, etc.) both in and out of the NHL just in recent memory.
 
Hughes has blistering small space speed with exceptional puck-handle skills.
And he is still a child.
It now becomes a projection from here.
 
This thread is trying to compare 2 players over the course of like 3 games vs what really matters, which is years of observation and intel into the deepest little corners of their games(Strengths/weaknesses/potential). At the end of the day, the Rangers and Devils are both getting phenomenal players. That's the bottom line.
 
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Generational is tough because there is no definition of what is generational. If Ovechkin and Leetch aren’t generational, then the term probably isn’t what people mean if they are asking if Kakko and Hughes are generational; because if we got a player like Ovechkin who is a sure fire Hall of Famer and Stanley Cup winner, we take that all day.

I’d be more interested in something like this.... going back to, say, 2004, rank the highest rated selections “as prospects.” Meaning.... rank the players not on how good their careers eventually became, or how good they were as players when they came out, but if you had assigned a draft grade that took potential into account at the time of their respective drafts, how would you rank the following skaters?

Alex Ovechkin
Evgeni Malkin
Sidney Crosby
Patrick Kane
Steven Stamkos
Drew Doughty
John Tavares
Victor Hedman
Taylor Hall
Tyler Seguin
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
Gabriel Landeskog
Nail Yakupov
Nathan McKinnon
Aleksander Barkov
Aaron Ekblad
Connor McDavid
Jack Eichel
Auston Matthews
Patrik Laine
Niko Hischier
Nolan Patrick
Rasmus Dahlin
Andrei Svechnikov
Jack Hughes
Kaapo Kakko

If you could rank these guys as prospects coming out, it might help clarify where we think Kakko and Hughes will end up being career wise.

I’m no scout, and maybe I’m looking at it with bias since I’m a Rangers fan, but I would guess they’d fall, as prospects, taking their potential into account, obviously below Crosby/McDavid/Ovechkin coming out, but obviously above Nugent-Hopkins, Hall, Yakupov, Seguin, Hischier, Patrick.... personally I feel like above Landeskog, McKinnon, Barkov and Ekblad too.

In my ignorance, I’m hoping they come in slightly above Laine/Matthews and maybe are right there at the Tavares/Stamkos/Kane level. But I could be way off... that’s where I interpret my own relatively uninformed hope/projection of these two guys based on things I’ve read and seen from other people.
 
BB88 said:
Laine was an insane prospect, who really got going at the WJC and after, he was the best player in the playoffs and scored a lot at the WC, again Laine was an insane prospect and had had a fantastic development over the last few months.
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At the men's WHC Laine was also pretty invisible in the final against Canada just like almost the entire Finnish team. Mikael Granlund was the only Finnish forward who was able to hold his own in that game. The way Kakko is playing in this tournament right now, I'd be surprised if he didn't create some problems for any opposing team on any given day. Right now Finland has a decent shot of making the final four. I hope we get to see how Kakko manages at that stage against some of the top-4 countries whose rosters are superior compared to Finland.
 
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JT Kreider said:
World Juniors are more prestigious. This tournament is not even close to "best on best".
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The top teams in this tournament are still head and shoulders above any team at the WJC.

NernieBichols said:
For sure. I just mean I don’t kakko dominating this tournament is so amazing bc of that reason. Most of the non-nhlers are worse comp than your facing in the world juniors and it’s at the end of hockey season
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How do you think SKA St. Petersburg, SC Bern, Frölunda HC or Kärpät Oulu would do against the best WJC teams?

kelsier said:
In fact he's been a force and quite literally carried Team Finland so far despite of getting little ice time - nevermind the line mates, ha.
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How did you like Rajala's pass to Kakko's breakaway goal against Canada? "Ha"?
 
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Tell you what I just watched the game from today and despite not scoring that might actually have been kakko’s best game. He was a force out there. Threw jack Hughes off him a couple times like a child. If you only watched today’s game you’d never NEVER take Hughes over this kid. He was probably again the best player on the ice. Looks like a seasoned nhl vet.
 
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Ola said:
Kakko would never be on the WCHs team if he went to the U18. He had to win a spot on the roster.
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Finland played EHT games against the Czech Republic, Russia, and Sweden after the U18 WJC was over. What makes you think Kakko wouldn't have been able to prove himself to be worthy of a roster spot in those three games?

Hischier and Hughes said:
also for a perspective Hughes played at the WJC whereas Kakko skipped to prep for WHC and practiced with the team in the meantime. Add on size and Kakko should have a great tournament while Jack may struggle.
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You can also add on the fact that Finland's roster sucks compared to USA. It's a lot easier for Kakko to get icetime when he doesn't have wingers like Kane and DeBrincat eating up those minutes.

Ola said:
He is more or less taking his Liiga game to the level of the WCHs, and that is like taking your ECHL game to the NHL.
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Undermining the Liiga much? There were nine Liiga players on the Finnish team that beat Canada 3-1 on Friday. FEL might not be much compared to the NHL but it's a far cry from the ECHL.

I Eat Crow said:
My comments about being a diabetic and having celiac disease being tragic stem from NYC having some of the world's best Italian food and pizza.
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I thought it stemmed from how difficult it will be for him to find gluten-free food in such a small backwater town.

Sayba said:
Kakko is so impressive, he looks a little like Jagr protecting the puck.
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Kakko looks a lot more like Peter Forsberg than like Jaromir Jagr when protecting the puck. Mikko Rantanen's style is closer to Jagr's.
 
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Kovalev27 said:
Tell you what I just watched the game from today and despite not scoring that might actually have been kakko’s best game. He was a force out there. Threw jack Hughes off him a couple times like a child. If you only watched today’s game you’d never NEVER take Hughes over this kid. He was probably again the best player on the ice. Looks like a seasoned nhl vet.
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Like I said, Rangers almost lucked out getting the 2nd pick lol.
 
Michael Grabner is a generational skater
Frolov is a generational wrap around artist
Chris Simon is a generational shithead
I am a generational poster/friend/companion/etc.
Bern is a generational trade guru
The main boards is a generational garbage heap
 
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I'm wondering... Might the Devils trade the pick... I assume it has never happened. And it's very far-fetched, I know.
 
Kovalev27 said:
Tell you what I just watched the game from today and despite not scoring that might actually have been kakko’s best game. He was a force out there. Threw jack Hughes off him a couple times like a child. If you only watched today’s game you’d never NEVER take Hughes over this kid. He was probably again the best player on the ice. Looks like a seasoned nhl vet.
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Mentioned it on his main thread by why exactly does Hughes have higher ceiling than Kakko?
Other than C over W.

Kakko could be the best puck protector in the league with elite elite skill, so one of the toughest players to play against, who can drive a play.
What does Hughes need to become to beat that?

Lepardi said:
At the men's WHC Laine was also pretty invisible in the final against Canada just like almost the entire Finnish team. Mikael Granlund was the only Finnish forward who was able to hold his own in that game. The way Kakko is playing in this tournament right now, I'd be surprised if he didn't create some problems for any opposing team on any given day. Right now Finland has a decent shot of making the final four. I hope we get to see how Kakko manages at that stage against some of the top-4 countries whose rosters are superior compared to Finland.
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Yeah both scored numbers on WC's, but they did it in very different ways.
Kakko straight up dominates games by himself, against the best teams in this tourney.
Laine punished teams more by his shot.
 
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