Prospect Info: The Second Overall Pick Thread: Part II (Kakko/Hughes Talk)

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Edge

Kris King's Ghost
Mar 1, 2002
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Edge

Kris King's Ghost
Mar 1, 2002
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not gonna lie, buttons list is pretty good.

wouldn't be terrible if we go kakko/kaliyev

Gotta be honest with you, at that point, I'm definitely going for someone like Zegras or Newhook if we're that close. We talked about top 10 prices, but I'm all over 12/13 and/or 16 at that point.

And that's without any hypothetical Kreider trade.
 

offdacrossbar

misfit fanboy
Jun 25, 2006
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Gotta be honest with you, at that point, I'm definitely going for someone like Zegras or Newhook if we're that close. We talked about top 10 prices, but I'm all over 12/13 and/or 16 at that point.

And that's without any hypothetical Kreider trade.

if zegras and newhook both go before we step up, and we end up the K and K. I'm oK with that

im higher on kaliyev than most ill admit. i think hes more than just the best shot in the draft.
 

Edge

Kris King's Ghost
Mar 1, 2002
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if zegras and newhook both go before we step up, and we end up the K and K. I'm oK with that

im higher on kaliyev than most ill admit. i think hes more than just the best shot in the draft.

I love the shot'. The more I see, and go back, the more lukewarm I am on everything else.

If I go with the bare minimum, we have 21, 37, 50 and 58 to work with.

I'm definitely willing to part with 21, 50 and 58 to take a shot on Zegras at 12. I'd part with two of the three assets for Newhook at 16, and maybe throw in a sweetener.

But I see something like that mock draft, and having a mid-teen pick feels that much more important to me.

Give me 14 to work with and I bundle that with 58 for 12. Take Zegras.

Give me 21 to work with and I bundle that with 50 for 17. Take York.

Hopefully find Dorofyev sitting there at 37.

Gimme Kakko at 2, Zegras at 12, York at 17 and Dorofyev at 37. Lemme roll the dice on skill in this draft.
 

GeorgeKaplan

Registered User
Dec 19, 2011
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I love the shot'. The more I see, and go back, the more lukewarm I am on everything else.

If I go with the bare minimum, we have 21, 37, 50 and 58 to work with.

I'm definitely willing to part with 21, 50 and 58 to take a shot on Zegras at 12. I'd part with two of the three assets for Newhook at 16, and maybe throw in a sweetener.

But I see something like that mock draft, and having a mid-teen pick feels that much more important to me.

Give me 14 to work with and I bundle that with 58 for 12. Take Zegras.

Give me 21 to work with and I bundle that with 50 for 17. Take York.

Hopefully find Dorofyev sitting there at 37.

Gimme Kakko at 2, Zegras at 12, York at 17 and Dorofyev at 37. Lemme roll the dice on skill in this draft.
Hell of a draft that’d be. Still two months away :ha:
 

offdacrossbar

misfit fanboy
Jun 25, 2006
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I love the shot'. The more I see, and go back, the more lukewarm I am on everything else.

If I go with the bare minimum, we have 21, 37, 50 and 58 to work with.

I'm definitely willing to part with 21, 50 and 58 to take a shot on Zegras at 12. I'd part with two of the three assets for Newhook at 16, and maybe throw in a sweetener.

But I see something like that mock draft, and having a mid-teen pick feels that much more important to me.

Give me 14 to work with and I bundle that with 58 for 12. Take Zegras.

Give me 21 to work with and I bundle that with 50 for 17. Take York.

Hopefully find Dorofyev sitting there at 37.

Gimme Kakko at 2, Zegras at 12, York at 17 and Dorofyev at 37. Lemme roll the dice on skill in this draft.

i like that, that's a solid 4some

ill counter

kakko 2. newhook 12. kaliyev 17. nikolayev 37
 

Edge

Kris King's Ghost
Mar 1, 2002
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i like that, that's a solid 4some

ill counter

kakko 2. newhook 12. kaliyev 17. nikolayev 37

I can be happy with that. Though if I am rolling the dice on Kaliyev at 17, I think I'd storngly prefer to come away with Zegras at 12. I also think that would provide some playmaking balance to the haul.
 
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Mac n Gs

Drury plz
Jan 17, 2014
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I just finished watching the Sweden-Finland game. The contrast is quite big from the U18, and it stands out quite much that Kakko is eligible to play against the kids as well. Many of them are pretty raw, Kakko certainly isn’t.

I know this might rub some intanglibles allergic posters the wrong way, but it shouldn’t, don’t misunderstand me, but what really sticks out in Kakko’s game is his intanglibles. How hard he competes. His ability to win back pucks. The reads he makes. How effective he plays. One thing that is illustrative is that if you ever watched highlights of him, it stands out how many wrap-around goals he scores. But what those plays really is about is just the amount of puck battles and pucks he wins, and if you can strip a D of the puck behind the net a wraparound is close at hand.

The level of play at this level, or the WJC U20, and so forth is just pretty high. But Kakko still just competes harder than most out there night in and night out. That is not just about making up your mind, everyone are determined at this level, it’s a skill and an ability that also is unique for him. In a way he actually reminds me a bit of Peter Forsberg or Markus Naslund in that regard. They took that competitive aspect to the next level, it was a part of all their training to have like mini-competitions in all drills and they really embraced it.

But that is what ‘really’ sticks out. Looking at the basis of his game he is just a very very good player for someone his age and you can also mention his size. He thinks the game well, he is good in thight quarters with the puck, his shot is perfectly OK.

At this age, he is overall up there with the best I’ve ever seen. But at the same time, it should be noted that he doesn’t display the extreme raw core abilities that a few have done, like AO or Crosby and co. Speed, ability to carry the puck etc.

I can’t call it, say that I am certain of this or that. These guys are pretty rare and I’ve not — for natural reasons... — not bad the pleasure to follow most of these kids really closely for a longer period before. But it’s hard to not think of guys like Eichel when you see him. He is up there with that type of kid. I actually don’t think that a comparison to a young Eric Staal is that off overall.

Weren't you saying that you only had Kakko 4th on your list as of like 3 weeks ago? What made you change your mind so suddenly?
 
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Cag29

94! I’m ready for more! LGR!
Jul 18, 2018
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I love the shot'. The more I see, and go back, the more lukewarm I am on everything else.

If I go with the bare minimum, we have 21, 37, 50 and 58 to work with.

I'm definitely willing to part with 21, 50 and 58 to take a shot on Zegras at 12. I'd part with two of the three assets for Newhook at 16, and maybe throw in a sweetener.

But I see something like that mock draft, and having a mid-teen pick feels that much more important to me.

Give me 14 to work with and I bundle that with 58 for 12. Take Zegras.

Give me 21 to work with and I bundle that with 50 for 17. Take York.

Hopefully find Dorofyev sitting there at 37.

Gimme Kakko at 2, Zegras at 12, York at 17 and Dorofyev at 37. Lemme roll the dice on skill in this draft.
 

Ola

Registered User
Apr 10, 2004
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Weren't you saying that you only had Kakko 4th on your list as of like 3 weeks ago? What made you change your mind so suddenly?

Self-preservation!!!

Seriously though, some reasons are:

1. I still think that Turcotte is blocked by Hughes pretty badly on the US team, and if it wasn't for Hughes, there would be -- a lot -- more talk on Turcotte going higher up the drafts. Looking at like the 5 nations in Russia when Hughes was injured, Turcotte was the clear No 1 center for a dominant US team.

So I think Turcotte is underrated. I think there is a really good shot that he will be a strong top center for someone down the road. Like a Matt Duchene with his head screwed on not only right, but with a very good attitude and 2-way game.

2. Podkolzin has not had the most impressive U18. But I still also think that he is underrated. Many put him in that Russian wunder-kid with issues category, and not totally without reason, but he is also a very strong and hard working, stubborn and determined, young player. I wouldn't at all be surprised if he could become a Tarasenko type of player, or even slight better. He will be a physical force in the near future. He can really rip the puck. He is so hard to get a hold of and can carry it in traffic. He is tremendously ambitious.

3. I think Kakko kind of can become an Eric Staal type of performer. A winner. A leader. But I am not sold on him like becoming Malkin II, although he certainly has a lot of potential.

4. So against the background of 1-3, choosing between a Duchene type with a very good 2-way game, someone that can become a Tarasenko type and someone that can become a Eric Staal type of performer, I think there is an argument to be made for the more speedy/flashier types in today's game.

5. One thing that has changed for me is the probability for these kids of full-filling their potential. I've not seen Kakko since the U20. He had a good U20 WJC, topped by the gold winning goal, but he didn't blow that tournament away. He impressed me a lot more yesterday when I saw him again again Sweden. I don't change my opinion on his potential, but it did change my opinion of the likelihood of him getting there.

Even if I am not ready to write off vPod like some are, certainly him but also Turcotte has not improved my picture of them. Turcotte is where he was and vPod has fallen a little.

6. I do think that it is important to remember that in -- almost all drafts -- the distance between 2 and certain players going 3-10 ends up being smaller than it was on the draft day.
-Brady T certainly gained ground on Svech this season.
-Elias Petterson has leapfrogged Nolan Patrick.
-McAvoy and Matthew Tkachuk is closer to Laine than they were on draft day.
-Marner and Raantanen must be seen as being ahead of Eichel at this point. Or? At least closer to him than on draft-day.
-Is Sam Reinhart even top 5 anymore?

Early developed players often get drafted very high, and kids behind them catch up.

There is, de facto, a big risk in uncritically going with the 'best player' on draft day, without really thinking through where this kids might end up being in a 5-10 year range.

But a counter argument to that is that even if you know that of a bunch of horses in a race, its more likely than not that the top horse won't win, it doesn't make sense to never put your many on the top horse. But the threshold for me to joggle with these names aren't as high as it is for some.
 
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