Prospect Info: The Second Overall Pick Thread: Part I (Kakko/Hughes Talk)

[Ghost of jas]

Two things that I’m certain will happen on draft night- 1) the Devils will take Hughes, and 2) the Rangers will take Kakko. People need to stop overthinking this.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I do blame the Oilers for not trading that pick to Columbus and then picking Murray, but that’s a different story.

There was a story a while ago that said Oilers group was going to take Murray 1st and they got overruled by the owner because he wanted Yakupov

 

[Fugazy]

There was a story a while ago that said Oilers group was going to take Murray 1st and they got overruled by the owner because he wanted Yakupov

That’s brutal.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Mock drafts are literally a scam. You know how you can tell that none of them are watching most of the players (besides the fact that it's impossible for 1 person or even a group of people in 1 time zone to do)? They all agree, within 2-3 spots on all the draftees.

Imagine ranking the top 31 NHL players. There would be huge fights of who goes where. And there, you're judging players on what they are doing today. In the draft, you're judging how a player will turn out 10 years later when he has played a few seasons in his prime. Yet, no huge disagreements? Who are you kidding?!

Some people put out a list early on that no doubt has huge mistakes because they didnt watch most of these players at all or just barely. Then others copy those lists to seem smart, changing up a few things based on whether you prefer size or speed, ceiling potential or a certain position, etc. Then the mock drafts take a life of their own because people just repeat that crap on forums.

Then a team grabs Kravtsov at #9 or Grachev "slips" to round 3 from round 1, and people go crazy, not understanding what happened. They blame the team as if mock drafts were holy. It is not even discussed that it's possible that the first guy to make a mock draft made a mistake, then all the rest made the same mistake with minor adjustments because basically everyone is cheating by reading and repeating each other in a circle jerk.

Clicks=revenue. Accuracy=/= revenue. In this day and age, everyone one of us can put out a mock and people will read them just to kill time.

 

[Kovalev27]

I love that positional breakdown chart @Amazing Kreiderman put out there. Basically the kid dominated at all 3 positions. He was a point a game player at left wing had 4 goals 1 assist in 4 games at center. And is known as a right wing. Kid can play anywhere and dominate it appears.

Honestly with Kravtsov and buchnevich locking down the right side it wouldn’t be so bad to have this kid penciled on the left. He’s obviously extremely versatile

 

[patnyrnyg]

Yes, it is.

Virtually every NHL scout (literally) publicly has Hughes #1, and a majority of them also have Kakko #2.

There is a gap this year between #1 and #2, and there is a gap this year between #2 and.................................................... everyone else.

Therefore, it is an absolute LOCK the Devils are taking Hughes and the Rangers are taking Kakko. This is very uncomplicated this year.

Does every scout include Shero? If Shero likes Kakko better, does he just go with what the tsn and sportsnet guys say?

 

[ijuka]

Kakko is a waste at center. Just not his thing. His natural position is on the wing. That narrative has been coming from Finland and nobody outside of TPS knows why. His goal scoring and hands are incredibly elite, but I don’t see him being a center who can take over games in all three zones.

They can draft pass-first types after Kakko to exploit his strengths. He always look better on the wing anyways.

Kakko performed very well as center when he played there with TPS. Them trying him as C in Liiga should say volumes, when that's not something that was done with Kotkaniemi for example.

Also, funny how he now is not a pass-first player, when that's what he was all his career until November of 2018. Well, we'll see how he does at Worlds, I guess.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Imo, its too early. Lots of decisions to be made prior though.
Who else do we add via draft? Trade up? Trade Kreider? Add Panarin?

Option 1. Adding Panarin probably will take us out of bottom 5, anf become a bubble team. Especially if Geo plays 40-45 games. If you add Panarin then you keep Kreider.

Option 2. Trade Kreider......pass on Panarin.....then this team is at least 3-4 years from even sniffing PO's. No matter how good Kravtsov and Kaako are, our young D needs to be really good in order to have any kind of a shot for PO's,

Option 3. Trade Kreider.......add Panarin. Gets us picks/prospects and will probably keep us somewhere where we ended up this year......but will be costly.

Probably should be a poll.

Disagree on option 2. Not saying they make the play-offs this year, but I don't think this puts them 3-4 years away. They likely in the play-offs in 2021, but not going far.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Does every scout include Shero? If Shero likes Kakko better, does he just go with what the tsn and sportsnet guys say?

It very well could . We know that Gordie Clark is one of the people Bobby Mac consults when he constructs his prospect rankings. Shero could be another. Regardless of that, Shero has connections to the Hughes family and is on record as loving the USNTP kids. Hughes is the unanimous consensus #1 ranked player. The Devils will take Hughes.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Tampa and/or Dallas woukd have to get us that 1st, first. Then what if Button is wrong and Zegras is gone? We would have to have a great contingency plan.

That is why it won't be done until Minnesota (or whoever, if we are talking a different pick than 12) is on the clock.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Huge demand for them. Gotta give fans what they want. Better to give a garbage mock draft than no mock draft atcall. Look at Kiper — he's always wrong after the first few picks. The most I ever hit is like 4/31. Teams treat their draft strategies like top secret info. Nobody on the outside knows. Still fun to guess.

Just keeps debates going. Same with rankings.

McKenzie is the only one with the resources to do one, but he’d blow up their spot and lose his sources. That’s why he does an anonymous poll and Button does the mock. Button doesn’t have Bob’s scout and agent contacts.

Nobody outside of an NHL team’s inner circle knows how the draft will go.

I agree it can be fun to debate. The problem becomes, and I see this A LOT, especially with the NFL draft, is when a team selects a player and the fans start whining about how they could have traded down and still taken player X. Then the evidence they use is along the lines of, "All the mocks had him going 20th or later...."

 

[nyr2k2]

Yes, it is.

Virtually every NHL scout (literally) publicly has Hughes #1, and a majority of them also have Kakko #2.

There is a gap this year between #1 and #2, and there is a gap this year between #2 and.................................................... everyone else.

Therefore, it is an absolute LOCK the Devils are taking Hughes and the Rangers are taking Kakko. This is very uncomplicated this year.

I'm sure you're right. I've always considered Hughes essentially a lock to go number one. And yes, he's ranked there pretty much everywhere. I've seen a few articles in the past couple months arguing that Kakko should at least be considered, but that's all that is.

I've said for some time (without thinking my team would ever have a chance at either) I think they are pretty close in terms of what they'll be able to contribute overall, but given Hughes plays the more premium position, he has to be the presumptive number one.

So, while I think in a vacuum there's still a sliver of a chance Kakko is the top pick, you obviously know your team and its needs better and I will defer to you that it is clear cut.

 

[patnyrnyg]

I'm sure you're right. I've always considered Hughes essentially a lock to go number one. And yes, he's ranked there pretty much everywhere. I've seen a few articles in the past couple months arguing that Kakko should at least be considered, but that's all that is.

I've said for some time (without thinking my team would ever have a chance at either) I think they are pretty close in terms of what they'll be able to contribute overall, but given Hughes plays the more premium position, he has to be the presumptive number one.

So, while I think in a vacuum there's still a sliver of a chance Kakko is the top pick, you obviously know your team and its needs better and I will defer to you that it is clear cut.

Pronman has an article on The Athletic about Kakko going number 1. He posts an article about Hughes going #1, it gets lost in the shuffle and not many people read it. He posts about someone else, and people get curious and click.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Saw somewhere that Kakko is playing the World Championships. Does NHL network usually show these games in the US?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Article mentions he plays center as well. Anyone here (Kreiderman?) KNOW if that is his preferred position and is just playing wing because of his age and others on a little older and more accomplished?

I know we already have a glut of centers, but what if.....eventually someday we have Zbad, Chytil and Kakko at the center positions. What team rivals that? Premature? Yes, of course.
Oh wow, i suppose that would be a waste having him center 3rd line and pushing Howden or Strome to the wing. I know what i presented is a little crazy, it is best he breaks in at the wing, but if he DOES prefer center......well then. We have some major diversification here......Quinn has to love that!

I did a breakdown of this yesterday:



Kakko can play every position up front, but I feel he's most dangerous on the right side. However, he is always going where the puck isn't, so to speak. He finds open ice to receive a pass. I think there is not much difference in playing him at LW or RW in this case. He's lethal either way.

Oh, and FYI: Those numbers are by a 17-year old Kaapo Kakko, in the 5th best professional league in the world

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Saw somewhere that Kakko is playing the World Championships. Does NHL network usually show these games in the US?

Kakko deciding to skip the u18s and go for the senior WC is a great sign of how confident he is. I am sure NHL Network will show a large portion of the games

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I was on a business trip to Chicago the last few days and I was able to follow the lottery and such (but just barely).

Can't express how happy I am. It's so surprising to see us picking second. It's a blessing as a fan. If Hughes falls to us, great, If Kakko is the pick, great. I'm so happy as a fan about this team going forward. That news was so great when I first saw it.

 

[Edge]

I agree it can be fun to debate. The problem becomes, and I see this A LOT, especially with the NFL draft, is when a team selects a player and the fans start whining about how they could have traded down and still taken player X. Then the evidence they use is along the lines of, "All the mocks had him going 20th or later...."

When I reported on here, Mock Drafts and player comparisons were probably the two most popular requests I'd get.

But people would get so attached to them, that it became a nuisance. Everything was literal, and people would become fixated on seemingly minute details.

After a few years, I stopped doing them and haven't really touched them since.

It's like posting trade rumors. If people don't like the rumor, it's your fault. If the rumor doesn't come true, it's your fault. If the rumor comes true, you just guessed right. It's just not worth the aggravation.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

2 days later you'd think that the excitement has worn off.

Nope.

KAKKO BITCHES!

 

[Leetch3]

thats interesting that he played almost the same amount of time on LW & RW...most list him as a RW...not sure if he prefers one but nice to have options

 

[Beacon]

Huge demand for them. Gotta give fans what they want. Better to give a garbage mock draft than no mock draft atcall. Look at Kiper — he's always wrong after the first few picks. The most I ever hit is like 4/31. Teams treat their draft strategies like top secret info. Nobody on the outside knows. Still fun to guess.

Just keeps debates going. Same with rankings.

McKenzie is the only one with the resources to do one, but he’d blow up their spot and lose his sources. That’s why he does an anonymous poll and Button does the mock. Button doesn’t have Bob’s scout and agent contacts.

Nobody outside of an NHL team’s inner circle knows how the draft will go.

I get that. But let's not pretend teams went off boards just because they disagree with mock drafts. Teams have large groups of professionals come up with their lists. Mock drafts are done by a fan sitting in a single time zone who, at best, watched a few prospects a few times, but mostly those creating mock drafts just copy each other's lists.

If with the 22 OA pick the Rangers choose Jackson LaCombe, they may not be going off board - it is just highly doubtful anyone making mock drafts was watching High School hockey in Minnesota, but the Rangers no doubt did. It's not going off board, it's knowing more.

 

[haveandare]

I’d think RW would be best to start - we’ve needed finishers forever and we don’t get good wingers often who have the prime handedness to shoot first from their wings - lefty RWs and righty LWs

 

[The Crypto Guy]

This still is the draft thread, right?

There is another draft thread, I think this one i just to discuss the 2nd pick, unless you think we should pick Turcotte 2nd overall?


edit - nevermind it was closed for some reason

 

[AlternateSideParking]

I agree it can be fun to debate. The problem becomes, and I see this A LOT, especially with the NFL draft, is when a team selects a player and the fans start whining about how they could have traded down and still taken player X. Then the evidence they use is along the lines of, "All the mocks had him going 20th or later...."

Well it depends on the mock source. Some mocks mirror rankings. I try to study GM trends, team needs, and best fit irrespective of my rankings.

And even after hours and hours of pre-mock research, I’m still dead wrong 95-99% of the time.

I also think that teams like to use deception schemes to throw other teams off. Like they’ll make a near definite decision on a kid in February, then overscout another player later on to sway others into thinking the second kid is who they are gunning for. If media get word, it could impact the mocks.

 

[Seele]

Saw somewhere that Kakko is playing the World Championships. Does NHL network usually show these games in the US?

He will play preliminary games and then will either make it or not to World Championships. Chances are really good if he just keeps up with how he has been playing recently.

Today he is playing in the first line against Denmark: Leijonat - Tanska-Suomi klo 20, Yle Areena näyttää ottelun suorana - Leijonien kentälliset

It's streamed in Finland but that's geographically restricted so that you are only able to see it from Finland. Maybe with a VPN you could be able to watch it: Jääkiekon Nordic cup | Jääkiekon Nordic cup: DEN - FIN