Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Trust me... nothing has changed.

[Honour Over Glory]

For anyone that has seen Blueger play more than like 5 games in the AHL, who does he even compare to? Strengths? Weaknesses? Does he put sugar in his coffee or does he drink it manly like?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I don't ****ing get this "Sid doesn't like Hornqvist or his game" ********. I really don't. Literally a guy that crashes the net and loves to deflect goals and play in the garbage area like a combined prime Kunitz and Dupuis, not as fast mind you, but not as slow as people make him out to be.

It irrationally angers me that Hornqvist is seen this way by the Captain of this team, allegedly, or insinuated by fans to be something allegedly hinted at. I also pray Hornqvist suddenly finds magic with Malkin with Sheary as his LW'er and Kessel is moved up to Crosby's line and that solves everything. I love Rust, I have been his biggest cheerleader since he left college and joined WBS and made his presence known on the Pens.

But there is no way I want Rust in the top 6, not for some stints with Crosby to just burn people with speed.


Guentzel, Crosby, Kessel
Sheary, Malkin, Hornqvist
Hagelin, 3C, Rust
Wilson, Rowney, Reaves

 

[Rufus]

I don't know how you can justify taking Jake off Sid's line. They play great together. So now we are going to have a useless fourth line and hinder the top line all because jimbo can't find respectable centers?

Since Sully has said that is not ideal, I don't think JR is much into that idea either

 

[Pens x]

Since Sully has said that is not ideal, I don't think JR is much into that idea either

Good. I think it would be a huge mistake. Hopefully Sully tells Jimbo to get wake up and get him some respectable centers.

 

[wheelz87]

Really don't think Sid/Kessel would be a great fit. Sid wants to cycle, Phil wants nothing to do with that. First line should be Sid with Guentz and either Sheary or Horny. Really want that stud 3C to separate Sid/Geno/Kessel. I say go for it - and make someone shut down our top 9 over a 7 game series. Good luck!

 

[FDR]

The problem with putting Hornqvist on the top line is that he can't carry the puck, can't create his own shot, and isn't a good passer. That leaves more bodies to drape all over Sid all game. We saw this a lot when that line was together. Having a net front presence is great and all but not a one dimensional one like that on the top line. What we and Sid have needed for a while is a big body power forward who can do the net front stuff but also all the other stuff as well. I suppose that goes for every team though.

 

[Riptide]

I don't know how you can justify taking Jake off Sid's line. They play great together. So now we are going to have a useless fourth line and hinder the top line all because jimbo can't find respectable centers?

I'm curious as to how putting a player who was on pace for 70pts - almost all of which were at ES on Crosby's wing - is "hindering the top line".

 

[Peat]

True. But there's clicking, and then there's "lead the playoffs in goal scoring as a rookie" clicking.

I think it's fair to say that Sid has better chemistry with Guentzel than he's had with any other winger. They tore the league a new one in their very first crack at it, at the most important time of year against the best competition in the world.

There's a word I want to use here, can't quite think what it is, its on the tip of my tongue, begins with a U...

I want a bigger sample before I decisively say that. It looks likely, but then this time last year I thought HBK was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

[billybudd]

I agree we're better off waiting than wasting the cap space we have on a run of the mill guy. But if they are serious about going for a dynasty, you simply can't be relying on 87/71 all year for offense. Not a good idea after two long playoff runs when they're both 30+ years old.

I'm not saying we should rely on a top-heavy group. I'm saying if we can't work anything out and find ourselves in that situation, it's really not the end of the world in the grand scheme of things. I'd love to win three or four in a row, but that's an uphill battle and we need to keep perspective and understand that we're playing with house money at this point after having won two bets on green.

 

[wheelz87]

The problem with putting Hornqvist on the top line is that he can't carry the puck, can't create his own shot, and isn't a good passer. That leaves more bodies to drape all over Sid all game. We saw this a lot when that line was together. Having a net front presence is great and all but not a one dimensional one like that on the top line. What we and Sid have needed for a while is a big body power forward who can do the net front stuff but also all the other stuff as well. I suppose that goes for every team though.

So like a Jamie Benn type player?

Horny is great at what he does and what he does is invaluable to this team. He's fine with Sid, you just need a skilled player to Sid's left - oh hey we have that with Guentzel.

Look at Hagelin. Not overly skilled, doesn't have a great shot, ect ect. But man can he skate and play a great 2 way game. His greatest assets are accentuated in our system and that makes him valuable.

I mean, or we can go Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary if you prefer. And just out cycle teams.

 

[Pens x]

I'm curious as to how putting a player who was on pace for 70pts - almost all of which were at ES on Crosby's wing - is "hindering the top line".

I'm saying taking Jake off Sid's line would hinder Crosby and the first line. They play great together and they shouldn't be separated. It's not their fault that Jimmy went into hibernation this summer.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

There's a word I want to use here, can't quite think what it is, its on the tip of my tongue, begins with a U...

I want a bigger sample before I decisively say that. It looks likely, but then this time last year I thought HBK was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Unprecedented?

Regardless of whether it continues, it's true to this point so I'd run with it until it proves otherwise, just like HBK was great in '15-'16 and we ran with it until it proved otherwise.

I'm a big proponent of sticking with what works until we have a very good reason to change it.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Because I could care less if Sid wins another scoring title as long as we're winning Stanley Cups?

My post was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I'm not exactly sure what the above is even meant to suggest.

We won a Cup *with* Guentzel next to Crosby. So why would that be your response to me suggesting people splitting them up and costing Crosby some regular season hardware as well?

Why not keep them together to allow Crosby to do both (Art Ross AND a Cup)?

 

[Riptide]

I'm saying taking Jake off Sid's line would hinder Crosby and the first line. They play great together and they shouldn't be separated. It's not their fault that Jimmy went into hibernation this summer.

Then you'd be very very wrong.

Don't try and blame this idea on the premise that it's only because we don't have a #3C and might try Guentzel there. Some of us have been suggesting this idea (that only one of Guentzel and Sheary play with Crosby) for months now. It has nothing to do with trying Guentzel as a center, and everything to do with creating 3 legitimate scoring lines. One of the best ways to do that is by not putting 2 of our top 'skilled' wingers with the same center.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm curious as to how putting a player who was on pace for 70pts - almost all of which were at ES on Crosby's wing - is "hindering the top line".

For starters - Sullivan and to a lesser extend JR, do not want to split Crosby & Jake up at all, they see what we see and realize the best line-up is with those two together. He then goes on to say yeah Jake can play C, but that really doesn't mean anything and in the greater good of things, it's not what they want to resort to, there are other options.


But sure, Sheary and all that...

 

[Peat]

Unprecedented?

Regardless of whether it continues, it's true to this point so I'd run with it until it proves otherwise, just like HBK was great in '15-'16 and we ran with it until it proved otherwise.

I'm a big proponent of sticking with what works until we have a very good reason to change it.

Pretty hard to disagree with that. The possibility of having a really, really good forward on all three lines is a good reason. Really good reason? Not sure but I can see the logic.

On the whole I trend towards keeping Guentzel with Sid but I'm open minded. Whatever they want to go with should work as long as its not really dumb.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

What is this horse **** about Hornqvist not being able to create his own shot, not being able to pass, etc.

People act like he was some ****ing horrendous player in Nashville that just leeched off of players and that he's doing the same on the Penguins or something. The guy can create his own shot, he's just made his bread and butter wreaking havoc in the crease, he's also a fairly decent playmaker, he won't be confused with Kessel or Guentzel, but he's not the worse either.

This is a group where when Horny is gone, will whine about how we need a player that does what he does when they describe what the Pens need for forwards.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Jets are a team that is really deep with C's...

Guys like Little, Lowry, Scheifele, Perreault, Copp are their guys right now, all very young except Little and Perreault.

I'd look at maybe trying to pick up Harkins or Roslovic from them.

Either of them is perfect imo, both skate well, Harkins has more of an edge to his game, Roslovic is the quicker one (He's from Columbus too, just a big middle finger to the intense rivalry with them).

I think we'd have to lose Jarry to pick up one of these guys though, the Jets are desperate for some sort of future goalie.

 

[Gurglesons]

What is this horse **** about Hornqvist not being able to create his own shot, not being able to pass, etc.

People act like he was some ****ing horrendous player in Nashville that just leeched off of players and that he's doing the same on the Penguins or something. The guy can create his own shot, he's just made his bread and butter wreaking havoc in the crease, he's also a fairly decent playmaker, he won't be confused with Kessel or Guentzel, but he's not the worse either.

This is a group where when Horny is gone, will whine about how we need a player that does what he does when they describe what the Pens need for forwards.

Yeah, this is literally the stupidest thing ever.

He has put up 20 goals every season in the league outside of his two injury plagued seasons.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

What is this horse **** about Hornqvist not being able to create his own shot, not being able to pass, etc.

People act like he was some ****ing horrendous player in Nashville that just leeched off of players and that he's doing the same on the Penguins or something. The guy can create his own shot, he's just made his bread and butter wreaking havoc in the crease, he's also a fairly decent playmaker, he won't be confused with Kessel or Guentzel, but he's not the worse either.

This is a group where when Horny is gone, will whine about how we need a player that does what he does when they describe what the Pens need for forwards.

There is certainly a good argument for Hornqvist's value, but this is fantasy land.

 

[BlackAndGold87]

Jets are a team that is really deep with C's...

Guys like Little, Lowry, Scheifele, Perreault, Copp are their guys right now, all very young except Little and Perreault.

I'd look at maybe trying to pick up Harkins or Roslovic from them.

Either of them is perfect imo, both skate well, Harkins has more of an edge to his game, Roslovic is the quicker one (He's from Columbus too, just a big middle finger to the intense rivalry with them).

I think we'd have to lose Jarry to pick up one of these guys though, the Jets are desperate for some sort of future goalie.

I'd be fine trading Jarry for Lowry.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'd be fine trading Jarry for Lowry.

Lowry is a solid guy, if the two I mentioned suddenly push him for a spot, I think he'd become available, but for now, I don't think the Jets are looking to move him at all. I'd still be interested in Roslovic and Harkins though, 3yrs on their ELC, Lowry is a RFA after this next season, he'll look to make a lot more. The other two, young, talented, they'd be in a good spot buffered by veterans for support.

Which would also be interesting if Blueger emerges too.

 

[Slaaapshuter]

Guentzel - Crosby - Hörnqvist
Hagelin - Malkin - Kessel
Sheary - X - Rust
Wilson - Rowney - Reaves

That's how I would like to start the season to see what we have. The top two lines have lethal weapons in Guentzel / Crosby and Malkin / Kessel. The third line is dangerous due to the sum of it's parts.

The lines feels pretty balanced as well, offense, defence, speed, grit, talent.

Only the fourth line feels a bit thrown together with leftover parts. No identity. What do we want from our 4th line.

Then we have some up and coming and potential names in the AHL.

Depending on which type or quality of the 3C this looks like a really dangerous group...

 

[Riptide]

What is this horse **** about Hornqvist not being able to create his own shot, not being able to pass, etc.

The truth? Hornqvist is extremely good at what he does, and he is without a doubt a top 6 winger in the NHL. But his production comes from one of two ways. 1) hard work and driving the net. 2) his center/linemates create his chances for him. It's not something that's unique to him. The same applies to Hagelin, Rust and it applied to Comeau, Kunitz and Dupuis back in the day. And it will apply to many others over the next 5-8 years of Crosby and Malkin's careers.

Guentzel, Sheary and Kessel for example can all be credited to varying degree's of being able to create some of their own offense by both getting open to receive passes and getting the puck back to their centers - mainly Crosby. Hornqvist can only do the former. AKA he's heavily dependent on his center to create chances for him.

Acknowledging this doesn't take anything away from Hornqvist - it's just acknowledging what his strengths and weaknesses are. I love that we have him, and am constantly torn about how much I'd be willing to give him to keep him around (AAV/term). But that doesn't change how I see him and his weaknesses/limitations or his strengths.

People act like he was some ****ing horrendous player in Nashville that just leeched off of players and that he's doing the same on the Penguins or something. The guy can create his own shot, he's just made his bread and butter wreaking havoc in the crease, he's also a fairly decent playmaker, he won't be confused with Kessel or Guentzel, but he's not the worse either.

This is a group where when Horny is gone, will whine about how we need a player that does what he does when they describe what the Pens need for forwards.

Absolutely we will - and for good reasons. But one of those reasons will not be his playmaking skills.

Yeah, this is literally the stupidest thing ever.

He has put up 20 goals every season in the league outside of his two injury plagued seasons.

Define Chris Kunitz (circa 2010/11 to 2013/14). And this is someone who had much better hands and playmaking then anyone ever accused Hornqvist of having. In that 4 year span he scored 106 goals and put up 229 points in 274 games. An average pace of 32g/69pts. And how was he frequently referred to around here? A leach. So why does the same not apply to Hornqvist? Neither were complete players as both had glaring strengths and weaknesses. Yet we praise Hornqvist and vilify Kunitz from around 2011 onward.

Hornqvist brings a lot of things to the table - all of which we're happy to have. Especially seeing how unique his skillset is and how well he does what he does - easily one of the top 2-3 guys in the league (if not the best) at going to the paint. So while that makes him a valued part of a power play (net front) and a key member to a quality offensive line due to his ability to muck things up in the corners, bang bodies, contribute even when he's not scoring and in his willingness to take a beating in the crease on a regular basis - and usually without taking penalties... Understandably, and rightfully so, no one will ever confuse him as being a playmaker.

Yet to call a spade a spade is somehow apparently insulting him. I don't get it. We knock Letang for his hockey sense at times and his typically poor abilities on the PP. Yet we rarely see anyone up in arms when doing so. So why now with Hornqvist? I don't get it.

 

[EightyOne]