Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Trust me... nothing has changed.

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Pens x

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I'm not saying we should rely on a top-heavy group. I'm saying if we can't work anything out and find ourselves in that situation, it's really not the end of the world in the grand scheme of things. I'd love to win three or four in a row, but that's an uphill battle and we need to keep perspective and understand that we're playing with house money at this point after having won two bets on green.

I hate this mentality. Why do you want to just settle because they won back to back cups? They still have a great roster despite a putrid offseason by management. I don't understand why people are essentially just throwing in the towel. This team is still better than any other eastern conference team. You make the necessary moves and you go for it all again. If they don't make it and run out of gas, oh well. But let's at least try. I don't understand the attitude of just hopefully a center option becomes available later in the season, our roster is fine until then! Do you really expect any of these AHL guys to actually make an impact?
 

madinsomniac

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I hate this mentality. Why do you want to just settle because they won back to back cups? They still have a great roster despite a putrid offseason by management. I don't understand why people are essentially just throwing in the towel. This team is still better than any other eastern conference team. You make the necessary moves and you go for it all again. If they don't make it and run out of gas, oh well. But let's at least try.

Except they are giving it a go... they arent exactly not spending to the cap... they have enough room for one more move and they seem to be waiting for the perfect move rather than knee jerking a roster together and having to make major trades to fit anyone else in
 

Ogrezilla

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Hornqvist isn't going to make fancy passes, but he can still setup plays for this team. Sid is ridiculously good at finding garbage near the net and burying it. Hornqvist taking the attention of the D in the crease, along with throwing pucks at the net, are both very effective ways of creating scoring chances for Sid. Just being near the net helps the rest of the team score. I've said for a while now that Hornqvist's statline does a poor job of representing the number of goals he helps create.
 

Jag68Sid87

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Really don't think Sid/Kessel would be a great fit. Sid wants to cycle, Phil wants nothing to do with that. First line should be Sid with Guentz and either Sheary or Horny. Really want that stud 3C to separate Sid/Geno/Kessel. I say go for it - and make someone shut down our top 9 over a 7 game series. Good luck!

It seems to me if we find a stud 3C, we would not need to separate Malkin and Kessel. We could, but we wouldn't HAVE to. The stud 3C could carry his own line, because after all he is a stud. Nick Bonino, for all his attributes, was not a stud.

Anyway, someone mentioned Jack Roslovic earlier. To me, he seems like the perfect acquisition. Right shot, projectable frame, NHL-ready imo, playmaker, etc. Would the Jets deal him? Well, they are fairly deep with young forward talent, including center.

My preference would be to begin this season with this forward lineup:

Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary
Rust-Malkin-Kessel
Wilson/Aston-Reese-?-?
Hagelin-Rowney/McClement-Reaves

If we put Hagelin on the fourth, his playmaking ability and speed can help counter the lack of offense to some degree. Besides, Wilson and/or Aston-Reese have more offensive upside. I still think trading Hornqvist is a possibility in order to land our magical third center. In that scenario, we could promote Sprong or maybe sign Jagr to fill in short term (either on the third line with youngsters or with Malkin and moving Kessel down).

JR may want to wait to see how a few players perform in camp before he is ready to deal for a center. Specifically, guys like Aston-Reese, Jarry, Sprong and Pouliot could hold the key to resolving this. Personally, I hope we keep them all and deal a veteran instead.

It's a bit like soccer. Teams scramble to sell players with only one year left on their contracts. Hornqvist is in that situation now as well, so why not maximize on this investment?

I think most people feel we cannot win another Cup without Hornqvist. I disagree. We can win another Cup without anyone so long as Crosby, Malkin and Murray are healthy.
 

NMK11

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If we don't get a Bonino equivalent for the third line, then making the team top heavy seems the way to go, as much as I don't like that.

I also really really really hope that the 'Sid doesn't like to play with Horny' thing isn't true. They work so we together. Stick Sheary or Guentzal on the other side. Then the other and Rust make up your third line wings.

Sheary/G-Sid-Horny
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Sheary/G-X-Rust
Wilson-Rowney-Reaves

If that 3C is more of a two way type, then maybe you put Hagelin on that line and you've got more of a shut down role with a pair of fast wingers.


Really, no matter how much we nitpick, man does it feel good to be able to ice that kind of a deep and complete line up even with missing an important role like a 3C. We have come so far from the days Gladams and wondering if Beau or Dupuis could carry Sutter.
 

Shady Machine

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I'm not saying we should rely on a top-heavy group. I'm saying if we can't work anything out and find ourselves in that situation, it's really not the end of the world in the grand scheme of things. I'd love to win three or four in a row, but that's an uphill battle and we need to keep perspective and understand that we're playing with house money at this point after having won two bets on green.

That's how we as fans should feel, but JR and Co. can't and won't think that way. What you did last year doesn't mean ****.
 

madinsomniac

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If Malkin would just man up and change his name to Balkin we could have another HBK line and most people would be happy enough not to care about the 3 C position until we actually address it lol
 

Pens x

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Except they are giving it a go... they arent exactly not spending to the cap... they have enough room for one more move and they seem to be waiting for the perfect move rather than knee jerking a roster together and having to make major trades to fit anyone else in

I'm not saying the team has this mentality. Some of the posters on this site seem to feel this way. We won back to back cups! What more do you want?!

I doubt the team feels the same way. Hopefully Jimmy realizes he might have been a little too passive this summer and makes some trades sooner rather than later. I'd hate to handicap this team for months while Jimmy waits for the perfect deal.
 
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Dipsy Doodle

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Pretty hard to disagree with that. The possibility of having a really, really good forward on all three lines is a good reason. Really good reason? Not sure but I can see the logic.

On the whole I trend towards keeping Guentzel with Sid but I'm open minded. Whatever they want to go with should work as long as its not really dumb.

I think the only really good reason to start Sid and Jake on separate lines would be if we didn't land at least a nominal 3C by the beginning of the year.

I don't believe there's a chance of that happening, but it would qualify.
 

pistolpete11

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I think if they want to run 3 legit scoring lines, they’ve got to separate Malkin and Kessel IMO. As good as Guentzel and Sheary have been, I don’t think they can carry a line. At least not yet. I know someone will probably pull out some G/60 stats to prove me wrong, but in the long run, I just don’t think it would work unless they bring in a very good 3C like Duchene.

Guentzel/Sheary – Crosby – Hornqvist
Guentzel/Sheary – Malkin – Rust
Hagelin – 3C – Kessel
Wilson – Rowney – Reaves

Hopefully Sprong, ZAR, and/or one of the center prospects force their way onto the roster before the playoffs to improve that 4th line, but I really like the top 9 so long as they can find an adequate 3C.
 

Shockmaster

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If Malkin would just man up and change his name to Balkin we could have another HBK line and most people would be happy enough not to care about the 3 C position until we actually address it lol

Could still sell those HBK t-shirts!
 

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If Malkin would just man up and change his name to Balkin we could have another HBK line and most people would be happy enough not to care about the 3 C position until we actually address it lol

G rhymes with B so...HGK sounds alot like HBK. I bet if they just started using in the same breath they would have HBK, I bet they could fool 95% of the fans.
 

Gurglesons

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The truth? Hornqvist is extremely good at what he does, and he is without a doubt a top 6 winger in the NHL. But his production comes from one of two ways. 1) hard work and driving the net. 2) his center/linemates create his chances for him. It's not something that's unique to him. The same applies to Hagelin, Rust and it applied to Comeau, Kunitz and Dupuis back in the day. And it will apply to many others over the next 5-8 years of Crosby and Malkin's careers.

Guentzel, Sheary and Kessel for example can all be credited to varying degree's of being able to create some of their own offense by both getting open to receive passes and getting the puck back to their centers - mainly Crosby. Hornqvist can only do the former. AKA he's heavily dependent on his center to create chances for him.

Acknowledging this doesn't take anything away from Hornqvist - it's just acknowledging what his strengths and weaknesses are. I love that we have him, and am constantly torn about how much I'd be willing to give him to keep him around (AAV/term). But that doesn't change how I see him and his weaknesses/limitations or his strengths.



Absolutely we will - and for good reasons. But one of those reasons will not be his playmaking skills. :laugh:



Define Chris Kunitz (circa 2010/11 to 2013/14). And this is someone who had much better hands and playmaking then anyone ever accused Hornqvist of having. In that 4 year span he scored 106 goals and put up 229 points in 274 games. An average pace of 32g/69pts. And how was he frequently referred to around here? A leach. So why does the same not apply to Hornqvist? Neither were complete players as both had glaring strengths and weaknesses. Yet we praise Hornqvist and vilify Kunitz from around 2011 onward.

Hornqvist brings a lot of things to the table - all of which we're happy to have. Especially seeing how unique his skillset is and how well he does what he does - easily one of the top 2-3 guys in the league (if not the best) at going to the paint. So while that makes him a valued part of a power play (net front) and a key member to a quality offensive line due to his ability to muck things up in the corners, bang bodies, contribute even when he's not scoring and in his willingness to take a beating in the crease on a regular basis - and usually without taking penalties... Understandably, and rightfully so, no one will ever confuse him as being a playmaker.

Yet to call a spade a spade is somehow apparently insulting him. I don't get it. We knock Letang for his hockey sense at times and his typically poor abilities on the PP. Yet we rarely see anyone up in arms when doing so. So why now with Hornqvist? I don't get it.

The idea that Hornqvist isn't skilled is the ridiculous part. He creates his own goals, he doesn't burst into the zone like Kesse and Sheary, but he has hands. It is why he scores 20+

It is really hard to use Kunitz as a comparison because he had prime MacDonald and Crosby / Malkin as his centers.

Hornqvist in Nashville had players like Lombardi and Legwand. Big difference.

Also, I'd argue Kunitz is much more skilled than you give him credit for.

Also, I'd argue your presumption of Hornqvist doing things when he isn't putting up points is a little unfounded. He is much more of an offensive player only versus Kuni
 
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SEALBound

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The idea that Hornqvist isn't skilled is the ridiculous part. He creates his own goals, he doesn't burst into the zone like Kesse and Sheary, but he has hands. It is why he scores 20+

It is really hard to use Kunitz as a comparison because he had prime MacDonald and Crosby / Malkin as his centers.

Hornqvist in Nashville had players like Lombardi and Legwand. Big difference.

Also, I'd argue Kunitz is much more skilled than you give him credit for.

Also, I'd argue your presumption of Hornqvist doing things when he isn't putting up points is a little unfounded. He is much more of an offensive player only versus Kuni

Nope. No. No way. Not a chance. We will not get into Chris Kunitz debates this off season. He is gone. He is nothing more than a memory.

Conversations regarding Kunitz need to end and they need to end now.
 

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Do you think he is going to win # 5 with Tampa?

I honestly do not give any amounts of **** about Kunitz. He is off this team. I am done with him. I don't care if he wins the art ross and richard and brings home #5 in Tampa. Good for him. There's zero reason why he should ever be discussed here.

Of course....if we traded for Kunitz back, we could try him at 3c ����

Good reply. :)



Sorry Geno, we have enough wingers we need centers


He's an old winger at that. 36. No room.

I thought he was a dman for some reason.
 

TheMalkinEra

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Guess who played some Center his first 2 seasons in the NHL none other then Phil Kessel. They didnt keep faceoffs stats his rookie season, but his 2nd season in 07-08 he was 4th on Bruins with over 300 faceoffs for the season. Talked to a Bruins fan, who told me that due to some injuries, Kessel played about a 25 games during first half of 07-08 in the middle.

If Sprong is too good to send down, the pens would have 7 wingers and 2 centers in there top 9, the same things when Chicago did in 2010, so they used Patrick Sharp at center for a large part of that season. The Blackhawks a couple years later had Patrick Kane play mostly C in 11-12 season.

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Rust-Malkin-Sprong
Hagelin-Kessel-Sheary

If i have feeling that Kessel would love the challenge of playing center if just to prove his critics wrong saying he cant. There have been so many players who have started at winger and moved to center later, examples include Mark Messier, Mike Modano,Trevor Linden,Jarri Kurri, Pavel Demitira,Mats Sundin, Vincent Damphousse,Kirk Muller, Keith Tkachuck,Patrick Elias.
 

Shady Machine

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Geno would have said "I like playing with Asham and Cooke. Tough guys, work hard, and dig pucks" if you asked him.
 

Shady Machine

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Guess who played some Center his first 2 seasons in the NHL none other then Phil Kessel. They didnt keep faceoffs stats his rookie season, but his 2nd season in 07-08 he was 4th on Bruins with over 300 faceoffs for the season. Talked to a Bruins fan, who told me that due to some injuries, Kessel played about a 25 games during first half of 07-08 in the middle.

If Sprong is too good to send down, the pens would have 7 wingers and 2 centers in there top 9, the same things when Chicago did in 2010, so they used Patrick Sharp at center for a large part of that season. The Blackhawks a couple years later had Patrick Kane play mostly C in 11-12 season.

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Rust-Malkin-Sprong
Hagelin-Kessel-Sheary

If i have feeling that Kessel would love the challenge of playing center if just to prove his critics wrong saying he cant. There have been so many players who have started at winger and moved to center later, examples include Mark Messier, Mike Modano,Trevor Linden,Jarri Kurri, Pavel Demitira,Mats Sundin, Vincent Damphousse,Kirk Muller, Keith Tkachuck,Patrick Elias.

Kessel played limited games at center 10 years ago, so let's make him a center now!

guiness-brilliant.jpg
 

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Geno would have said "I like playing with Asham and Cooke. Tough guys, work hard, and dig pucks" if you asked him.

Joke all you want but 2011-12 had Asham, Cooke, Rupp, and a relatively prime Kunitz.

Line up had plenty of physicality. Talbot still had bad hands though.

Kessel played limited games at center 10 years ago, so let's make him a center now!

guiness-brilliant.jpg

As logical as anything else in this thread.
 

Shady Machine

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Joke all you want but 2011-12 had Asham, Cooke, Rupp, and a relatively prime Kunitz.

Line up had plenty of physicality. Talbot still had bad hands though.

Is that supposed to make me impressed that Geno had to have them as his wingers? I'm not really sure what your point it.

As logical as anything else in this thread.

So you agree with it? Again, not sure what you're getting it.
 
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