Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Trust me... nothing has changed.

[Riptide]

When Carl Hagelin is your potential worst winger in your top 9 you can't really complain.

Forget top 9... when he has the worst contract on the team... you can't complain at all.

 

[Pens x]

That is true now that Fleury and Kunitz are gone, we don't have a bad contract on the team.

 

[Gurglesons]

Won the Cup (again) - Check
Signed up our RFAs - Check.
Didn't get stuck keeping the band together - Check


Only 2 things that stand out are no 3C, which I'm fine with right now. I don't know if I would have wanted to give Bones 4M. So I'm fine. The Cullen thing is a bummer... but I get it. He was legit the best 4C we could have.

Traded our only center prospect worth anything and a potential chance at drafting Kostin (which will likely be the new Forsberg if Reaves doesn't pan out) for a player that hits and fights - Check.

Gave a 32 year old # 6 a three year contract at 2.25 while also signing his RFAs to basically the highest amount he could in Dumo and Schultz giving us one of the most expensive defenses in the league - Check.

Did nothing to address a 3C and 4C hole that he knew he was likely going to have since July besides signing McClement to a PTO resulting in us likely moving assets for a place holder or potentially having to make a deadline deal for a 3C - Check.

 

[Gurglesons]

Forget top 9... when he has the worst contract on the team... you can't complain at all.

I'm sure you guys will find one worse. My money is on Maatta being the whipping boy with Schultz or Dumo as a close second. Maybe even Kessel.

 

[Pens x]

Traded our only center prospect worth anything and a potential chance at drafting Kostin (which will likely be the new Forsberg if Reaves doesn't pan out) for a player that hits and fights - Check.

Gave a 32 year old # 6 a three year contract at 2.25 while also signing his RFAs to basically the highest amount he could in Dumo and Schultz giving us one of the most expensive defenses in the league - Check.

Did nothing to address a 3C and 4C hole that he knew he was likely going to have since July besides signing McClement to a PTO resulting in us likely moving assets for a place holder or potentially having to make a deadline deal for a 3C - Check.

Oh boy, I agree with everything you said, but get ready for the abuse.

Number one rule here, thou shalt not criticize Jimmy Rutheford.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Traded our only center prospect worth anything and a potential chance at drafting Kostin (which will likely be the new Forsberg if Reaves doesn't pan out) for a player that hits and fights - Check.

Sundqvist isn't worth anything, he was no better of a prospect than guys like Blueger or Johnson. The Penguins weren't going to draft Kostin anyway, from what JR said they wanted Lauzon. I imagine the Penguins would have picked a defenseman at 31 even if they would have kept the pick.

Gave a 32 year old # 6 a three year contract at 2.25 while also signing his RFAs to basically the highest amount he could in Dumo and Schultz giving us one of the most expensive defenses in the league - Check.

He gave Dumoulin an extremely fair contract based on what other similar defensemen have gotten and had he not paid Schultz what he got, Schultz would be gone in a year. You're also complaining about probably a million combined for them, there's no way you could legitimately complain about Dumoulin at $3.75 million and Schultz at $4.75 million if those were the deals they got.

Did nothing to address a 3C and 4C hole that he knew he was likely going to have since July besides signing McClement to a PTO resulting in us likely moving assets for a place holder or potentially having to make a deadline deal for a 3C - Check.

It's pretty baseless to say that the Penguins are "likely moving assets for a place holder", don't you think? Why is that more correct than me saying "the Penguins are likely to trade for one of Vegas' young 3Cs"?

 

[Peat]

Oh no, we're paying our defence fair salaries that takes up a completely affordable amount of our salary cap given the way our team is structured. What a mistake.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Sundqvist wasn't worth much of anything, and you have no idea who we would have drafted. We waited until it was our pick to make the trade, which tells me they weren't looking to take anyone at the top of the board at the time.

And those defenseman salary complaints are laughable.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Oh no, we're paying our defence fair salaries that takes up a completely affordable amount of our salary cap given the way our team is structured. What a mistake.

Like for real, there are legitimate issues you can complain about with this team right now. Not many, but there are issues. Complaining about the Penguins paying their defensemen fair salaries is just complaining to complain. It's like complaining that the Penguins gave up a 2nd in March to ensure Vegas would take Fleury.

 

[WayneSid9987]

They're also in their prime(the D-Men).
All of which were integral in this latest Cup win.
Certainly not a place i'd direct my JR anger at(if i had any atm).

 

[Riptide]

I'm sure you guys will find one worse. My money is on Maatta being the whipping boy with Schultz or Dumo as a close second. Maybe even Kessel.

I think people will complain about Schultz if he doesn't put up 40+ points. But personally, I'll be alright with that, as I think a repeat of last year with a healthy Letang (lol) is unrealistic.

 

[Peat]

Sundqvist wasn't worth much of anything, and you have no idea who we would have drafted. We waited until it was our pick to make the trade, which tells me they weren't looking to take anyone at the top of the board at the time.

And those defenseman salary complaints are laughable.

Well he does have an idea, insomuch as Rutherford said he was happy to take both Lauzon and Phillips in the 1st round. Think he also said he was gonna take Lauzon at 31 anyway?

If he doesn't trust Rutherford, there's the fact we skewed heavy to dmen and pretty much don't draft from Russia and have no obvious scout there. Was never gonna be Kostin.

And... well, the crazy bit for me there is the idea Sundqvist is notably more valuable than Blueger. Plus we just drafted a Swede who's outproducing Sundqvist at the same age.



The only real area of genuine concern right now is that we could end up overpaying quite a lot for our 3C and/or fail to get the guy good enough for the role.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

They're also in their prime(the D-Men).
All of which were integral in this latest Cup win.
Certainly not a place i'd direct my JR anger at(if i had any atm).

I think you could argue that Maatta isn't in his yet, and Dumoulin and Schultz are in the early parts of theirs. Hunwick may be nearing the end of whatever prime he had, though.

Or we can be pissy about everything JR has done up to and including having an extra donut last week. It's totally reasonable and not at all over the top.

 

[WayneSid9987]

His [Blueger] numbers aren't impressive in comparison to a lot of these prospects. He is average size and weight. How does he stand out at all compared to the other mediocre prospects? As always, posters are severely overrating prospects on this site.

Cuz i've actually watched him play.
His development from 14-15 to last season was a nice bump.
He was one of Donatelli's most trusted C's by the end of the season. Ahead of Sundqvist btw.
PK's and 3on5's he was one of the first C's over the boards at the end.

I don't believe i'm overrating him at all.
At best he'll top out as a 4C in the NHL if he works on the things i mentioned in my post.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I think you could argue that Maatta isn't in his yet, and Dumoulin and Schultz are in the early parts of theirs. Hunwick may be nearing the end of whatever prime he had, though.

Or we can be pissy about everything JR has done up to and including having an extra donut last week. It's totally reasonable and not at all over the top.

Yes about Maatta just entering his.
Poster didn't mention Hunwick tho...

I'm sure you guys will find one worse. My money is on Maatta being the whipping boy with Schultz or Dumo as a close second. Maybe even Kessel.

On Hunwick, at his age, he still has speed. Thats half the battle in todays NHL and one of the big reasons Sully/JR wanted him badly.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I think people will complain about Schultz if he doesn't put up 40+ points. But personally, I'll be alright with that, as I think a repeat of last year with a healthy Letang (lol) is unrealistic.

I think he could put up similar numbers if Letang is healthier next season, and by that I mean Letang plays ~65 games. Schultz wasn't really producing much in the first 20 games and then he exploded so that could make up some of the difference for the games Letang will be ******* around on PP1.

If Letang plays 82 games I assume the rest of the team will be sacrificed anyway.

Yes about Maatta just entering his.
Poster didn't mention Hunwick tho...



On Hunwick, at his age, he still has speed. Thats half the battle in todays NHL and one of the big reasons Sully/JR wanted him badly.

My bad. I wouldn't be surprised to see his legs start to go during the contract, tbh. Part aging and part Penguins injury standards.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Oh boy, I agree with everything you said, but get ready for the abuse.

Number one rule here, thou shalt not criticize Jimmy Rutheford.

What if there wasn't a good 3C available for a reasonable price? Would you want JR to trade Sprong + 1st for Eakin or something just to make any random deal?

What everyone is trying to tell you is that maybe there wasn't anything available to JR, and that there's still time to make a deal. If you have a problem with the reality that there simply may not have been anything good available, then I don't know what to tell you.

JR is not afraid to send assets out the door, he's not afraid to make deals. If he did not make a deal yet, then it's likely nothing good has come available.

 

[billybudd]

If you say so. Sure. I clearly don't agree with you. Proactive could mean many things. You have no clue what is going on behind the scenes. You just don't. I'd rather him wait then go spend out of his mind for a marginal guy.

He could be on the phone daily for Duchene. He could be calling GMs. He could have a list of 3-4 guys he's ready to throw in big for. You do not know a single thing. And I think we have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Why would we not?

Right. I mean, let's be realistic here: the 3C pickings were slim. What were our actual options? We could have

1. re-signed Bonino...at $4 million...which is the exact sort of thing people were always are still on Shero's ass about.

2. possibly traded for Maatta, Sprong and a first round pick for 2 years of Duchene, creating a hole on D that might be even harder to fill and potentially creating the same problem at both wing and center in 2 years. And this is assuming Sakic's crazy ass wasn't insisting on Guentzel instead of Sprong, which is not necessarily a probable assumption.

3. gotten the Rags GM drunk and convinced him to trade us Derek Stepan...who views himself as a 1C.

4. moved the country music recording industry to Washington, PA and then signed Mike Fisher, I guess.

This is not an easy problem to solve in the year we had the problem. Sometimes circumstances are that problems can't be solved in a timely manner. If any roster problem could be fixed on demand irrespective of outside variables, every hockey club would win the Stanley Cup every year.

I mean, I want the center situation sorted out as much as anybody, but if it can't be fixed until league circumstances change, sometimes that happens to championship teams in a cap system.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think you could argue that Maatta isn't in his yet, and Dumoulin and Schultz are in the early parts of theirs. Hunwick may be nearing the end of whatever prime he had, though.

Or we can be pissy about everything JR has done up to and including having an extra donut last week. It's totally reasonable and not at all over the top.

If there is anything the Penguins should've learned from the last two playoffs is that you can win with a pretty mediocre defense core. We paid a 25 year old defensemen 4 x 6 years for 33 pts in 163 games on a team that is continuously putting up top three numbers in the league. Dumo has had some really good stretches in his career, but he is a player that doesn't push play. People make a comparison to Paul Martin, but his numbers just honestly don't reflect it.

Honestly, Dumo, Sheary, etc are being judged here based on what they did in 2015-16. The team has won back to back cups, but you would think if you learn anything about the past two years is that you tie your money up in forwards not in over paying defense. Dumo might have played the most minutes in this playoff run, but did he honestly look that good? His numbers are constantly worse when not paired with Crosby and Malkin.

Do you not see a complete comparison to Dumo as Maatta where they only succeed when they are paired with a player like Letang or Niskanen?

And I don't think it is one of those situations where we are going to vastly regret the Dumo deal, but to sit back and say Rutherford did everything he needed to in creating a chance for us to go 3 for 3 this summer and his RFA deals were home runs is just untrue.

You basically paid market rate for a player that could drastically decline over the next couple years. If you're going to judge Sheary for only producing with Crosby in the playoffs, can we at least take an honest examination at Dumo minus Letang.

I think Rutherford in terms of how he handle those two contracts is just bizarre. It really speaks to him being an oldschool GM valuing "defensive defensemen" with size. Rutherford legitimately said to Mackey "It is important to have balance, we have guys who can put up points and having a guy that can rely on defense is important."

Go look at the drafting that has gone on the last couple years. They fit the defensive defensemen style that is honestly a terrible way to evaluate picks.

Whatever, I'd rather run four versions of Schultz on our D versus two players like Dumo and Maatta who have barely put up points recently.

Balance is stupid. I want every player to be fast and score. This isn't Nintendo hockey. It reeks of some of the issues Shero and Bylsma had constructing our line-up. It pretty much runs counterpoint to what won the Pens cup on the last two years.

I think with Sullivan's system and Letang, we honestly do not need to pay defensemen high ticket contracts and we literally have the most expensive D in the league. Do you view anyone on our team a legitimate #2 outside of Letang?

This is coming from someone that has a Dumo jersey.

 

[mpp9]

Not having an ELC in the starting six on D kinda sucks. Makes it harder to move Maatta if a deal is there. And saving cap next summer by moving on from Cole.

 

[Empoleon8771]

"Makes it harder to move Maatta if a deal is there"

I really wish people would stop pushing for Maatta to be traded. No, you should be hoping that an ELC defenseman develops into a NHL role so you don't have to sign Hunwick for 3 years or so you don't have to overpay to keep Cole. You don't hope you have an ELC defenseman so you can trade your 23 year old top-4 D who's signed long term.

 

[Pens x]

What everyone is trying to tell you is that maybe there wasn't anything available to JR, and that there's still time to make a deal. If you have a problem with the reality that there simply may not have been anything good available, then I don't know what to tell you.

But I had to hear from many of you that Rutherford had several trades up his sleeve, as per some quote he made. Relax, Jimmy is just doing his due diligence. It's only July! Now I have to hear maybe he didn't like any players available? We will be fine!

The narrative for McClement will be amazing. It began as he's just a warm body for camp. If he is signed then people will find a way to justify it. He's a great penalty killer! It's low risk high reward signing! 4C doesn't really matter!

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Traded our only center prospect worth anything and a potential chance at drafting Kostin (which will likely be the new Forsberg if Reaves doesn't pan out) for a player that hits and fights - Check.

You assume he would have taken Kostin. There was talk the Pens would have taken Lauzon anyway at 31 even if they kept the pick. And let's wait until Kostin pans out first before deciding it was bad to pass him up.

Gave a 32 year old # 6 a three year contract at 2.25 while also signing his RFAs to basically the highest amount he could in Dumo and Schultz giving us one of the most expensive defenses in the league - Check.

Which one of those defensemen is overpriced? I know you're not high on Hunwick (even though I doubt you've seen much of him), but he's barely above $2 million, which isn't that big of a deal. Anyone else besides him?

Did nothing to address a 3C and 4C hole that he knew he was likely going to have since July besides signing McClement to a PTO resulting in us likely moving assets for a place holder or potentially having to make a deadline deal for a 3C - Check.

Did nothing *yet*. That last part seems to really slip your mind. The season hasn't even begun yet, and the trade deadline isn't until March. So how can we decide whether he's done enough to address those holes until we actually see the final product?

 

[Peat]

"Makes it harder to move Maatta if a deal is there"

I really wish people would stop pushing for Maatta to be traded. No, you should be hoping that an ELC defenseman develops into a NHL role so you don't have to sign Hunwick for 3 years or so you don't have to overpay to keep Cole. You don't hope you have an ELC defenseman so you can trade your 23 year old top-4 D who's signed long term.

His foot speed means he's not an ideal fit in the organisation and his ability means he could have a lot of value in a hockey trade. If we were in a position to be able to move on from him easily, that would be potentially really useful.

There's a lot of reasons we could use ELC dmen. Pretty much all of them listed are valid.

 

[Empoleon8771]

His foot speed means he's not an ideal fit in the organisation and his ability means he could have a lot of value in a hockey trade. If we were in a position to be able to move on from him easily, that would be potentially really useful.

There's a lot of reasons we could use ELC dmen. Pretty much all of them listed are valid.

He's been a top-4 defenseman in the organization for 4 seasons now, so I really don't think the idea that he's not "an ideal fit" is really relevant. Would you rather have a better skating version of Maatta? Yeah, for sure, but the fact is he's been incredibly effective for nearly half a decade in a top-4 role for the Penguins.