The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Beerz]

If they are going to sign Byram long term, they should absolutely look to move on from Samuelsson.

Find me a team with 5+ year deals with 4 d-men.

Find me a team with 4 dman 24 and under with pedigree.

I'm not sure why you think that is an issue.

Sure you can make the case about cap but I think that is separate from having 4 5+ year contracts

 

[Chainshot]

If they are going to sign Byram long term, they should absolutely look to move on from Samuelsson.

Find me a team with 5+ year deals with 4 d-men.

Why are they signing Byram long-term?

 

[Ace]

If they are going to sign Byram long term, they should absolutely look to move on from Samuelsson.

Find me a team with 5+ year deals with 4 d-men.

Find me one with 2 first overall and one 4th overall drafted D aged 24 and younger to compare them to

 

[Ace]

Buffalo doesn't have the cap space anyway. And that's for this season. Next season, Quinn, Levi, Peterka, and Byram all need humungous increases after 24/25, so he fits even less next season.

We're not trading for Cirelli.

Vegas manipulates cap, goes hog wild every year and then trades things away to get under the cap when they have to figure it out. Prioritizing winning at all costs and sorting it out later.

Buffalo has spent three years and counting petrified of the 2026 salary cap.

One of these teams is the reigning cup champions. The other is on an NHL record playoff drought.

I can’t remember which is which.

 

[TehDoak]

Find me a team with 4 dman 24 and under with pedigree.

I'm not sure why you think that is an issue.

Sure you can make the case about cap but I think that is separate from having 4 5+ year contracts

It'd be one thing if having 4 under 24 d-men worked well in practice. It hasn't. Maybe it will eventually? I don't recall one team hoarding high pick d-men and being successful because of it.

Why are they signing Byram long-term?

I'm just hoping Adams wait until Bryam is actually a RFA to make any decisions.

Find me one with 2 first overall and one 4th overall drafted D aged 24 and younger to compare them to

I'm reasonably sure given the lack of 1st OA d-men in the last 30 years, its an impossible question.

 

[OkimLom]

If they are going to sign Byram long term, they should absolutely look to move on from Samuelsson.

Find me a team with 5+ year deals with 4 d-men.

What do you think Byram's next deal will look like?

 

[Jim Bob]

What do you think Byram's next deal will look like?

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

If they give Byram a multi-year deal, there are not a lot of comparables with respect to a 24 or younger RFA defenseman signing a contract that expires in UFA range.

Chychrun's next deal might make for a decent comparable.

 

[OkimLom]

It'd be one thing if having 4 under 24 d-men worked well in practice. It hasn't. Maybe it will eventually? I don't recall one team hoarding high pick d-men and being successful because of it.

The only team in recent history where it was built up with the defenseman, the way Buffalo has, was Nashville. (Jones, Ellis, Josi, Ekholm, Weber) but they weren't necessarily high pick dmen (that honestly doesn't matter IMO to the discussion at the end of the day, because the issue at hand is contract values and structured).

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Vegas manipulates cap, goes hog wild every year and then trades things away to get under the cap when they have to figure it out. Prioritizing winning at all costs and sorting it out later.

Buffalo has spent three years and counting petrified of the 2026 salary cap.

One of these teams is the reigning cup champions. The other is on an NHL record playoff drought.

I can’t remember which is which.

Vegas has players they can stash on LITR and an owner who's willing to spend money. Buffalo has neither. So there's a pretty big difference between the two teams.

 

[Gras]

Vegas has players they can stash on LITR and an owner who's willing to spend money. Buffalo has neither. So there's a pretty big difference between the two teams.

As soon as we try and do it they will change the rules

 

[Jim Bob]

Vegas has players they can stash on LITR and an owner who's willing to spend money. Buffalo has neither. So there's a pretty big difference between the two teams.

The only time Buffalo wants LTIRetired guys is when they need a cheap way to get above the cap floor.

 

[Jacob582]

I don't know Cirelli's trade value but I'm guessing it's less than Tanner Jeannot's.

 

[Der Jaeger]

If the Sabres do it right, they just rotate players around their core. Tampa and Chicago were masters of this method.

Chicago: Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Sharp, Hossa, Hjalmarsson
Tampa: Hedman, Stamkos, Kucherov (with Palat, Johnson, Killorn, Paquette on the roster). Vasilevskiy was on the roster but wasn't the stater in 2015.

Chicago moved on from Versteeg, Brouwer, Ladd, Byfuglien, Bolland, and Campbell. They added in Saad, Shaw, Leddy, Kruger, Oduya, and Richards. And they changed goalies from Niemi to Crawford.
Tampa had the big three on their first Cup run when they lost to the Blackhawks. They moved on from Callahan, Stralman, Drouin, Namestnikov, Connolly, Sustr, Nesterov, Gadas, and Bishop. They elevated Vasilevskiy as a starter, traded Drouin for Sergachev, and added Point, Cirelli, Gourde, Verhaeghe, Cernak, McDonagh, Rutta, Goodrow, Colton, and Coleman.

Buffalo has a core and enough organizational assets to shuffle players out via trades when they become unaffordable and replace via trade or player development. Completely possible with the depth in the organization they have.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

If the Sabres do it right, they just rotate players around their core. Tampa and Chicago were masters of this method.

Chicago: Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Sharp, Hossa, Hjalmarsson
Tampa: Hedman, Stamkos, Kucherov (with Palat, Johnson, Killorn, Paquette on the roster). Vasilevskiy was on the roster but wasn't the stater in 2015.

Chicago moved on from Versteeg, Brouwer, Ladd, Byfuglien, Bolland, and Campbell. They added in Saad, Shaw, Leddy, Kruger, Oduya, and Richards. And they changed goalies from Niemi to Crawford.
Tampa had the big three on their first Cup run when they lost to the Blackhawks. They moved on from Callahan, Stralman, Drouin, Namestnikov, Connolly, Sustr, Nesterov, Gadas, and Bishop. They elevated Vasilevskiy as a starter, traded Drouin for Sergachev, and added Point, Cirelli, Gourde, Verhaeghe, Cernak, McDonagh, Rutta, Goodrow, Colton, and Coleman.

Buffalo has a core and enough organizational assets to shuffle players out via trades when they become unaffordable and replace via trade or player development. Completely possible with the depth in the organization they have.

That involves a lot of hard choices every year. So far, Adams hasn't been able to make any hard choices.

The choices he makes in the next month or so -- his first extremely meaningful offseason -- could set him up for years of success, or doom this plan to never get off the ground. I'm truly on needles and pins waiting to see what he does. He has the opportunity to do exactly what you lay out, if he nails it.

 

[HOOats]

What do we think Samuelsson's trade value is, both in picks and current players? I want more nasty and more GP from his spot.

I have this video game pipedream of trading Samuelsson for picks, using those picks to help unload Skinner, and then signing Zadorov 5x5. Does Sammy and our 3rd get a mid-1st? I saw some crazy Devils article offering up their 1st straight up for him and while that feels a bit loony, I guess comparable D on UFAs have fetched that at the deadline.

 

[Zman5778]

What do we think Samuelsson's trade value is, both in picks and current players? I want more nasty and more GP from his spot.

I have this video game pipedream of trading Samuelsson for picks, using those picks to help unload Skinner, and then signing Zadorov 5x5. Does Sammy and our 3rd get a mid-1st? I saw some crazy Devils article offering up their 1st straight up for him and while that feels a bit loony, I guess comparable D on UFAs have fetched that at the deadline.

I'd rather have Sammy at his contract than Zadorov on a 5x5. Zadorov strikes me as a guy who's going to play well for a few years and then dramatically fall off a cliff.

Sammy is nasty enough when he's healthy, which admittedly has been an issue. I do think that Granato neutered the physicality of the entire team and I think it was most notable with Sammy. I think Ruff will encourage him to play with more nasty in his game.

 

[Irie]

Vegas manipulates cap, goes hog wild every year and then trades things away to get under the cap when they have to figure it out. Prioritizing winning at all costs and sorting it out later.

Buffalo has spent three years and counting petrified of the 2026 salary cap.

One of these teams is the reigning cup champions. The other is on an NHL record playoff drought.

I can’t remember which is which.

The average age of Vegas Knights top 6 forwards and top 4 defenders in 2022 were 29(28.83) and 32(31.75). The average age of the Sabres top 6 forwards and top 4 defenders in 2022 were 24 and 22(21.75).

There is a time to go hog wild and go all in and there is a time where going hog wild and all in is too soon and is a fools errand.

I can't remember which is which.

 

[Irie]

And yes, a lot of our faceoff problem hasn't even been on the centers over the years. It's just as much the flaccid play from the wingers and defensemen on loose pucks or tied draws.

This is a huge part of the problem and too many people are looking at players on other teams individual FO stats for a fix, when it really should start with coaching and practicing. This team needs a head coach, assistant coaches, and vets that push the entire team to focus on the little details.

Good teams often have good FO percentages because they are well coached and they all focus on little details. If a center is going up against a much stronger face off opponent, that center needs to get low for leverage, tie up the draw, use their feet and body to shield the puck and his teammates need to step up and help win those faceoffs. This team has had none of that for a long time.

Honestly, a lot of the games little nuances are learned from vet linemates more than coaches though, and I think faceoffs are one of the biggest areas where little tricks are passed on between teammates and coaches that don't have the experience in that area are not the primary resource for the help the players need to improve.

 

[Chainshot]

This is a huge part of the problem and too many people are looking at players on other teams individual FO stats for a fix, when it really should start with coaching and practicing. This team needs a head coach, assistant coaches, and vets that push the entire team to focus on the little details.

Good teams often have good FO percentages because they are well coached and they all focus on little details. If a center is going up against a much stronger face off opponent, that center needs to get low for leverage, tie up the draw, use their feet and body to shield the puck and his teammates need to step up and help win those faceoffs. This team has had none of that for a long time.

Honestly, a lot of the games little nuances are learned from vet linemates more than coaches though, and I think faceoffs are one of the biggest areas where little tricks are passed on between teammates and coaches that don't have the experience in that area are not the primary resource for the help the players need to improve.

A team that has a staff willingly giving them a pass on physical battles probably isn't going to tap into some inner reserves on draws. Hopefully Ruff can set the tone and the rest of the staff reinforce it but the wuss factor leads to so many 50-50's that they have lost over the Granato era... how much of it is coaching and how much is it the players now have bad habits there? We'll see.

What do we think Samuelsson's trade value is, both in picks and current players? I want more nasty and more GP from his spot.

I have this video game pipedream of trading Samuelsson for picks, using those picks to help unload Skinner, and then signing Zadorov 5x5. Does Sammy and our 3rd get a mid-1st? I saw some crazy Devils article offering up their 1st straight up for him and while that feels a bit loony, I guess comparable D on UFAs have fetched that at the deadline.

I can't say he's going to hold enough value to get Skinner moved. I would also look at trying to improve the non-physical players or marginally physical players rather than trying to get more physicality out of one of their more physical guys.

 

[Irie]

A team that has a staff willingly giving them a pass on physical battles probably isn't going to tap into some inner reserves on draws. Hopefully Ruff can set the tone and the rest of the staff reinforce it but the wuss factor leads to so many 50-50's that they have lost over the Granato era... how much of it is coaching and how much is it the players now have bad habits there? We'll see.

I personally am not super optimistic on there being a big change on the lack of details. A lot of those small intangibles are addressed by good assistants that have been there and done it themselves, and I still feel this staff has one of the weakest assistant coach lineups in the league when it comes to experience and what they bring in that department.

Getting a few guys like McKee or Peca to replace WIlford and Ellis should have been a top priority imo, but the "loyalty to nice guys" took priority over "doing what is best to build a winner". I don't think the team is better for it, unfortunately.

 

[MeenOlViks]

I personally am not super optimistic on there being a big change on the lack of details. A lot of those small intangibles are addressed by good assistants that have been there and done it themselves, and I still feel this staff has one of the weakest assistant coach lineups in the league when it comes to experience and what they bring in that department.

Getting a few guys like McKee or Peca to replace WIlford and Ellis should have been a top priority imo, but the "loyalty to nice guys" took priority over "doing what is best to build a winner". I don't think the team is better for it, unfortunately.

I have full confidence in a former goalie and matt ellis upping our faceoff %

 

[joshjull]

I'm very curious to see how Adams handles the bottom six. I hope he's successful in morphing it into a heavy, hard to play against unit. To me, it feels like the simplest way to change the team's culture/identity.

But he has 7 forwards on the roster who likely aren't suited to playing that kind of role (Thompson, Tuch, Cozens, Peterka, Quinn, Benson, and Skinner). Skinner is the only one of those forwards he'd probably be happy to move. But I don't know if he's movable even with retention. And I don't know if it makes sense to buy Skinner out just yet given our plentiful cap space.

If they can't move Skinner, Adams and Ruff have some tough choices to make. Do they bench him? See if one of the 7 forwards I listed can play on a heavy third line? Or do they run with a more offensively oriented third line by calling up a kid or 2 to round it out?

It feels like the last option is the path of least resistance. But I hope Adams is more active in trying to change the complexion of the team.

Brought this from the Savoie thread.


I don’t think we need an entire bottom 6 that plays a heavy game. Just a 4th line would be a huge positive change. Even with just two players added to anchor it.

They still need to leverage their skilled forward group. It just needs to be augmented with the heavy game.

 

[Krieger Bot]

Vegas manipulates cap, goes hog wild every year and then trades things away to get under the cap when they have to figure it out. Prioritizing winning at all costs and sorting it out later.

Buffalo has spent three years and counting petrified of the 2026 salary cap.

One of these teams is the reigning cup champions. The other is on an NHL record playoff drought.

I can’t remember which is which.

The concerns raised about the future cap when discussing acquiring/extending/keeping good, young players are odd to me. If we end up in a situation where we have too many good, young players to afford (which, it's not clear when that's going to happen with the way the cap is likely to move over the next few years), we can just trade one away. These aren't likely to become immovable contracts like, say, whatever Guentzel is going to get this summer. We don't need to preemptively trade away the likes of Sammy/Mitts, or refuse to acquire a Cirelli, because we might have to choose between extending Peterka or one of the goalies at some undefined point in the future. You acquire/extend good, young players when you can, and you figure out the cap later.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

The concerns raised about the future cap when discussing acquiring/extending/keeping good, young players are odd to me. If we end up in a situation where we have too many good, young players to afford (which, it's not clear when that's going to happen with the way the cap is likely to move over the next few years), we can just trade one away. These aren't likely to become immovable contracts like, say, whatever Guentzel is going to get this summer. We don't need to preemptively trade away the likes of Sammy/Mitts, or refuse to acquire a Cirelli, because we might have to choose between extending Peterka or one of the goalies at some undefined point in the future. You acquire/extend good, young players when you can, and you figure out the cap later.

It’s present cap, not future cap. We have like $8m for 3 roster spots. If Cirelli takes up $6.25m then you’re stuck with all ELCs on the 4th line wings. Which is the worst idea ever.

 

[joshjull]

It’s present cap, not future cap. We have like $8m for 3 roster spots. If Cirelli takes up $6.25m then you’re stuck with all ELCs on the 4th line wings. Which is the worst idea ever.

Just to flesh it out. We have roughly 22mil in cap space with 14 players signed - 8F/5D/1G.

RFAs
Krebs

RFA with arb rights
UPL
Joker
Bryson
Clague

Not sure what you’re basing the 8mil with 3 spots to fill on. But its certainly one of the possibilities that could play out.

——————————————————————————————-

Aside from that, If we had 8mil to fill out the 4th line wings, Why would it require youngsters on ELCs? Having 8mil for 3 players gives us 2-3mil to spend on each.