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The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

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Chainshot said:
The lack of confrontation from the supporting players in all areas of the ice seems to seep into the faceoff dot. Lighting some fire under them to attempt to get more winger wins is a biggy.

And yet, when looking at the best faceoff teams, it remains that their best centers are the keys to being good at this task. If we look at the best faceoff performers based on wins in that timeframe, only a handful in the top 50 (7 of 'em) are sub 50%. The best guys to take those draws went and got good at it - that advantage is not in finding someone who is naturally talented at it since that doesn't measure the value of the player at the rest of the the game (see Cody Eakin) but in turning the most important players on the team into people who are at least a saw-off at it. Thompson in particular should be ashamed by his season at the dot and his career 42.1% win rate. No one serious has a 1 or 2 center getting pushed around to that degree at the dot.

Sure, finding a player who can contribute to being a bit above 50% for that individual will help a smidge on lower lines but unless Thompson and Cozens put in the work AND the staff makes a demand that they buy into about winning the puck off tied draws... this is trying to find an advantage way down the list in terms of priorities.
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I'm in agreement with you that our top centers need to get it together as far as faceoffs and that we need a coaching/team philosophy change on confrontation in order to fix our faceoff problem. A depth signing or two who are good at faceoffs is not the answer on it's own.

My point is that while reshaping the bottom 6 we can, in addition to the above, target guys who are good at draws. It's not just the top 2 centers that we lack, it's the depth as well. Teams who are good at faceoffs seem to have entire center spines and often wingers who are good at faceoffs. Not just the top 2 guys. They all have at least 4 good faceoff guys. We have zero.

Pens #1 in fow%
Crosby leads the Pens and the league with a +308. Crosby is a freak who works obsessively on the details. The next 3 Pens are a combined +200 (Malkin not pictured at -23). So the #1 center leads the way, but the other guys are no slouches and are also quite good at draws, except for Malkin.
1716988120902.png


Dallas #2
Looks to be a team effort led by a winger. Big, physical, confrontational bully of a team. Not a surprise at all that they dominate faceoffs without a mega #1C faceoff winner.
1716988363924.png


NJ #3
1716988838960.png


In conclusion. We need our top Centers to work on faceoffs to at least become average, we need the team as a whole to toughen up and fight/win loose pucks and we need to sign some depth who are good all around players, including faceoffs. I don't want a cody eakin who was worthless outside of the faceoff dot, but I also don't want to sign bottom sixers who can't win draws either.
 
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BFLO said:
I'm in agreement with you that our top centers need to get it together as far as faceoffs and that we need a coaching/team philosophy change on confrontation in order to fix our faceoff problem. A depth signing or two who are good at faceoffs is not the answer on it's own.

My point is that while reshaping the bottom 6 we can, in addition to the above, target guys who are good at draws. It's not just the top 2 centers that we lack, it's the depth as well. Teams who are good at faceoffs seem to have entire center spines and often wingers who are good at faceoffs. Not just the top 2 guys. They all have at least 4 good faceoff guys. We have zero.

Pens #1 in fow%
Crosby leads the Pens and the league with a +308. Crosby is a freak who works obsessively on the details. The next 3 Pens are a combined +200 (Malkin not pictured at -23). So the #1 center leads the way, but the other guys are no slouches and are also quite good at draws, except for Malkin.
View attachment 876974

Dallas #2
Looks to be a team effort led by a winger. Big, physical, confrontational bully of a team. Not a surprise at all that they dominate faceoffs without a mega #1C faceoff winner.
View attachment 876977

NJ #3
View attachment 876980

In conclusion. We need our top Centers to work on faceoffs to at least become average, we need the team as a whole to toughen up and fight/win loose pucks and we need to sign some depth who are good all around players, including faceoffs. I don't want a cody eakin who was worthless outside of the faceoff dot, but I also don't want to sign bottom sixers who can't win draws either.
Click to expand...

How many years have the centres been bad at faceoffs? They won't become average. Honestly, it's a real hole in the lineup. It would help if you coached in a way to anticipate battles off the faceoffs because we get so few clean wins.
 
HogtownSabresfan said:
How many years have the centres been bad at faceoffs? They won't become average. Honestly, it's a real hole in the lineup. It would help if you coached in a way to anticipate battles off the faceoffs because we get so few clean wins.
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The ROR years were the only time we weren't among the dregs of the league in fow% during the drought.

Our top 3 performances of the drought era:
21st in 2015-16
17th in 2016-17
7th in 2017-18 ROR led the league with a +424
 
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Chainshot said:
A team that has a staff willingly giving them a pass on physical battles probably isn't going to tap into some inner reserves on draws. Hopefully Ruff can set the tone and the rest of the staff reinforce it but the wuss factor leads to so many 50-50's that they have lost over the Granato era... how much of it is coaching and how much is it the players now have bad habits there? We'll see.
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A good first step was recognizing the problem with faceoffs and dedicating a coach to it. Ruff will handle the forwards with Appert, so I assume he’ll be involved with this to some extent.

In terms of the team’s overall battle……. The players that already have that in their game to any degree, it shouldn’t be too hard. It will be like sharpening a dull knife. But it will be a project with the players that don’t. Another factor is how many players are added to help with that.
 
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twointhebox.com

Pinpointing Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen’s Contract

Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen needs a new contract this offseason and after an impressive campaign in which he solidified himself as Buffalo’s starting goaltender, he’s on track to receive a healthy raise a…
twointhebox.com twointhebox.com

An ideal contract for Luukkonen would be a three-year deal somewhere in the neighborhood of $4.25 and $4.75 million per year, let’s call it three years with an AAV of $4.65 million. That’s a hefty raise from what he’s currently earning and would make him one of the top 25 paid goaltenders in the NHL.
Click to expand...
 
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www.nytimes.com

Duhatschek: By hiring Don Waddell, the Blue Jackets overcame recent bad habits

After a long period of missteps, Columbus did the correct thing by turning over its hockey operations to Waddell.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Money quote:

Carolina was known for its culture, but Waddell clarified that, to him, “Culture is an overused word. It’s important and critical, but you can’t just say, ‘OK, we’re going to have this culture.’ It doesn’t work that way. It takes time, and everybody’s got to be on board — I’m talking right down from the locker room, the trainers, the equipment managers, obviously the coaches, the players, and the staff that’s surrounding the team. If you’re not on the same page, it’s not going to work. And if you are on the same page, it just builds. That’s critical to our success. I think about that all the time.”
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Hope that's what's happening in Buffalo and in the right way.
 
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I just stumbled on “SabresSpace” a forum that is about as active as this board. Is anyone else here on it? Thoughts ?
 
I think Toy
Snippit said:
I just stumbled on “SabresSpace” a forum that is about as active as this board. Is anyone else here on it? Thoughts ?
Click to expand...

I think that might have been the one I used to go to before here until for some reason a thread about Pegula devolved into aggressive Christian bashing and the mods ignored it.
 
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Jim Bob said:
twointhebox.com

Pinpointing Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen’s Contract

Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen needs a new contract this offseason and after an impressive campaign in which he solidified himself as Buffalo’s starting goaltender, he’s on track to receive a healthy raise a…
twointhebox.com twointhebox.com
Click to expand...
That would be an asinine contract. Even if his play plateaus you just walked a top 15 goalie to UFA at 27yo. Buffalo needs to pony up a bit more on AAV to secure another couple years
 
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joshjull said:
Just to flesh it out. We have roughly 22mil in cap space with 14 players signed - 8F/5D/1G.

RFAs
Krebs

RFA with arb rights
UPL
Joker
Bryson
Clague

Not sure what you’re basing the 8mil with 3 spots to fill on. But its certainly one of the possibilities that could play out.

——————————————————————————————-

Aside from that, If we had 8mil to fill out the 4th line wings, Why would it require youngsters on ELCs? Having 8mil for 3 players gives us 2-3mil to spend on each.
Click to expand...


8/5/0 at $23M in space
2G at $5M combined
2 vet F at $5M combined
2D at $3M combined
10/7/2 with $10M left
2 ELCs and Rousek give them

13F/7D/2G $7M mlm left. You can increase on 2 vet Fs signed but you need to also realize you need space next year so that added F likely expires after this season

Doug Prishpreed said:
Just curious, what's the cost for Trenin and Matt Roy?
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Roy will cost above $5M trenin around $3.5M

The problem us long term D/G cap space usage.
 
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If you have a young goalie who showed you he can play you pay them to stay. Because another team will pay you to take them if they stumble. Then another team will pay them if he stumbles again. You have a big goalie who has impressed at all? That you aren’t paying 7 or more per year? You know how many teams would call to take him off your hands if he dropped from a .910 to a .900 in two years? Plenty.

The risk with goalies is paying them an immovable contract or not paying them to stay.

Middling a contract term because you think your younger goalie will be good enough is malpractice. Because you don’t know shit.
 
Jim Bob said:
It would scream to me that they are not sold on UPL being able to maintain his solid play to end the season.
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Or they may understand the volatility year to year at the position. Do I think and hope UPL has arrived? Sure, the eye test looks pretty darn good as far as the development in his game goes.

I bet the Wild are happy they didnt 'lock up' Monster after his amazing finish 1 year ago (an often comparable to UPL).

But its goalie whisperer season, and the track record from all of those who know which goalie to pick around here every summer is exemplary :sarcasm:

From Ned to Vanacek to Samsonov....maybe give Campbell or Jarry or Korpisalo a 5yr deal...how about trade for Elvis or Kuemper...and on and on and on.

I don't know if 3/12 is the wrong move or if 5/25 is the right move, none of us do really. I'm just not worried about what might happen 4 years from now when it comes to goaltending. (OR THE CAP, I know that worrying about the cap structure 3, 4, 5 years from now is the favorite past time of this place, yet teams prove every year how its not a problem). If he's a Vezina candidate, back up the brinks truck. Some here wanted to trade for 30 yr old Hellye and give him all the years and money, so doing that with a 27yr old works better for me if it comes to that.

I love UPL, but I'm not gonna have a meltdown if its 3 or 4 yrs :dunno:
 
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Chainshot said:
AFP has Trenin at $2,554,525.60 for three years.
Roy at $5,823,280.00 for five.
Click to expand...
I should listen to the episode that explains it but some of those numbers are off and some are spot on

Sabreality said:
Or they may understand the volatility year to year at the position. Do I think and hope UPL has arrived? Sure, the eye test looks pretty darn good as far as the development in his game goes.

I bet the Wild are happy they didnt 'lock up' Monster after his amazing finish 1 year ago (an often comparable to UPL).

But its goalie whisperer season, and the track record from all of those who know which goalie to pick around here every summer is exemplary :sarcasm:

From Ned to Vanacek to Samsonov....maybe give Campbell or Jarry or Korpisalo a 5yr deal...how about trade for Elvis or Kuemper...and on and on and on.

I don't know if 3/12 is the wrong move or if 5/25 is the right move, none of us do really. I'm just not worried about what might happen 4 years from now when it comes to goaltending. (OR THE CAP, I know that worrying about the cap structure 3, 4, 5 years from now is the favorite past time of this place, yet teams prove every year how its not a problem). If he's a Vezina candidate, back up the brinks truck. Some here wanted to trade for 30 yr old Hellye and give him all the years and money, so doing that with a 27yr old works better for me if it comes to that.

I love UPL, but I'm not gonna have a meltdown if its 3 or 4 yrs :dunno:
Click to expand...
Agree.


I would also take Elvis in a heartbeat
 
Jim Bob said:
It would scream to me that they are not sold on UPL being able to maintain his solid play to end the season.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't trust this franchise to be sold on any player that's worth it.
Sabreality said:
Or they may understand the volatility year to year at the position. Do I think and hope UPL has arrived? Sure, the eye test looks pretty darn good as far as the development in his game goes.

I bet the Wild are happy they didnt 'lock up' Monster after his amazing finish 1 year ago (an often comparable to UPL).

But its goalie whisperer season, and the track record from all of those who know which goalie to pick around here every summer is exemplary :sarcasm:

From Ned to Vanacek to Samsonov....maybe give Campbell or Jarry or Korpisalo a 5yr deal...how about trade for Elvis or Kuemper...and on and on and on.

I don't know if 3/12 is the wrong move or if 5/25 is the right move, none of us do really. I'm just not worried about what might happen 4 years from now when it comes to goaltending. (OR THE CAP, I know that worrying about the cap structure 3, 4, 5 years from now is the favorite past time of this place, yet teams prove every year how its not a problem). If he's a Vezina candidate, back up the brinks truck. Some here wanted to trade for 30 yr old Hellye and give him all the years and money, so doing that with a 27yr old works better for me if it comes to that.

I love UPL, but I'm not gonna have a meltdown if its 3 or 4 yrs :dunno:
Click to expand...
At some point a team has to pay a guy that's shown something in goal. Or just forget it because nothing is guaranteed, like how they've operated for the last ten years.
 
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Personally, I don't want to give UPL a massive term. 3-4 years seems about right

There is a huge field of one year wonder goalies out there for cautionary tales. And we have Levi in the pipe.

The IDEAL setup for next year.

Sign UPL to a 3 year deal.
Sign a veteran backup goalie
Give Levi another year in the minors

Next summer, sign Levi to a 3 year deal so we can walk UPL to UFA and not be terrified of the future.

Haven't we given enough long term deals out based on 1 good season or 1/2 a good season already?
 
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