The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Dreakon13]

Honestly the main thing I hope Ruff/coaching can bring to this team is harder practices and practicing at game speed, so these guys aren't just waking up around the second period most games. It sounds so simple in my head lol

How many of the losses last year were all but settled in the first 5-10 minutes of the game

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Honestly the main thing I hope Ruff/coaching can bring to this team is harder practices and practicing at game speed, so these guys aren't just waking up around the second period most games. It sounds so simple in my head lol

How many of the losses last year were all but settled in the first 5-10 minutes of the game

The funny thing is that the year before, they fell behind early a lot too, but you knew that they’d come back and make a game of it.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Final results meaning what the roster looks like. It's an underwhelming roster and nobody except Sabres fans are picking them to make the playoffs.

I would love nothing better than for every player to hit their potential and for the Sabres to make some noise in the playoffs. It's definitely possible as we saw two seasons ago.

Oddsmakers put this team in the bottom third of the league for chances to make playoffs. It's pretty incredible after all these years. This team should be beyond scratching for playoffs, and we should be talking about winning a round.

This year mostly comes down to Ruff and a bet on young players. Both situations are likely based on Pegula's unwillingness to spend because we are well below the cap, and Ruff's hire was likely motivated in part by New Jersey paying part of his contract.

All that said, Ruff is a good coach, and he could be very successful. And we do have solid prospects after years of high picks.

Two things change, and they are the mix: better goaltending, which is very possible with a full year of UPL, Riemer in the mix, and Levi with more experience, and a better PP. The better PP should happen with even just some minor coaching adjustments from game to game.

My hope is it comes together, crowds feel rink, and Terry is then convinced to spend a little at the deadline.

It's not crazy to think this could happen but our odds should be so much better at this point.

 

[Jim Bob]

Oddsmakers put this team in the bottom third of the league for chances to make playoffs. It's pretty incredible after all these years. This team should be beyond scratching for playoffs, and we should be talking about winning a round.

This year mostly comes down to Ruff and a bet on young players. Both situations are likely based on Pegula's unwillingness to spend because we are well below the cap, and Ruff's hire was likely motivated in part by New Jersey paying part of his contract.

All that said, Ruff is a good coach, and he could be very successful. And we do have solid prospects after years of high picks.

Two things change, and they are the mix: better goaltending, which is very possible with a full year of UPL, Riemer in the mix, and Levi with more experience, and a better PP. The better PP should happen with even just some minor coaching adjustments from game to game.

My hope is it comes together, crowds feel rink, and Terry is then convinced to spend a little at the deadline.

It's not crazy to think this could happen but our odds should be so much better at this point.

I also hope that Adams learned from his approach to the 2023 trade deadline and how not making a meaningful add and coming up one point short was regretable.

If they are in the hunt at the TDL and Adams doesn't push meaningful chips into the middle to get the team in and talks about how the guys in the room have earned a shot to make it themselves...

 

[TehDoak]

I get the impression that Adams and his team are pretty diligent which makes the sitting on his hands narrative weird to me. They might not swing at every pitch and miss a few curve balls but it seems like they keep their eye on the ball. Just my opinion I suppose

Adams lack of quality external addition really speaks to his ability to improve the team.

In the end, its a very simple explanation as to why.

He has no front office experience. At any level. This is all new to him.

I think that is the core of the issue

You can see how much he genuinely likes the players he drafts and how excited he is. I don't think that is a show. He spends months debating and arguing about these guys, and is always excited to get 'their guy'

But, at some point, that's a handicap. Picks and prospects are currency. GMs have to be cold and calculating and balance the prospect needs with the NHL teams needs.

I don't doubt he's diligent, but he's been unwilling to make moves when he was in a good position to use his cap situation to his advantage. The likely reason is overvaluing his picks and prospects and it has made it impossible to get deals done.

My guess is he learned an important lesson this summer in where he had to, essentially, cut the cord on a top 10 pick in Savoie because he wasn't able to get anything else done for what is an offensively challenged 3rd line center in McCleod.

But again, this isn't an Marketing internship. This is a top tier position in a professional sports league. You can't have your GM have "learning experiences" that cost fans entire seasons.

And that is where we are at as a franchise.

Hoping Kevyn learned from his mistakes and makes good decisions this time.

 

[SundherDome]

This is one thing that makes me hopeful the coaching change CAN have a good impact. The players coming in and out didn't forget how to pass or magically remember when they went elsewhere so in my view it has to be a system based problem. Players don't know where other players are going to be or where they are going to go.

It feels like Bylsma was the last coach where this team completed passes. It's an incredibly weird thing that passing just disappears based on coaching but positioning is critical.

 

[Zman5778]

Adams lack of quality external addition really speaks to his ability to improve the team.

Malenstyn and Lafferty are quality 4th liners. McLeod is a quality 3rd liner with the potential for a bit more still....you say he's "offensively challenged", yet when put with Draisaitl, he's performed well enough offensively. We really don't know what his offensive capability is, as Edmonton really hasn't had much offensive quality on their 3rd/4th lines. If we play McLeod with some combo of Benson/Zucker/Greenway/etc....Benson and Zucker are probably better offensively than a lot of what he's had to play with.


I think the root of your issue is that Adams is waiting to see who amongst the kids sticks as top 6/top 9 forwards and not being more active in getting a "more legit" top 6/top 9 guy than Zucker and/or Greenway. I don't share that concern, but I acknowledge that some may have that concern.....and that it may be valid if some of the kids don't step up.

 

[DJN21]

Malenstyn and Lafferty are quality 4th liners. McLeod is a quality 3rd liner with the potential for a bit more still....you say he's "offensively challenged", yet when put with Draisaitl, he's performed well enough offensively. We really don't know what his offensive capability is, as Edmonton really hasn't had much offensive quality on their 3rd/4th lines. If we play McLeod with some combo of Benson/Zucker/Greenway/etc....Benson and Zucker are probably better offensively than a lot of what he's had to play with.


I think the root of your issue is that Adams is waiting to see who amongst the kids sticks as top 6/top 9 forwards and not being more active in getting a "more legit" top 6/top 9 guy than Zucker and/or Greenway. I don't share that concern, but I acknowledge that some may have that concern.....and that it may be valid if some of the kids don't step up.

For 5 million I'd have wanted much better than Zucker but I share your sentiment in him needing the flexibility to insert Kulich/Rosen etc and simply drop Greenway down a line so I get not going nuts with a top 6 addition. I also don't see how a big top 6 addition fits with our future payroll set up but I'm more optimistic going into this year than I was prior years I suppose...

 

[Matt Ress]

Adams lack of quality external addition really speaks to his ability to improve the team.

In the end, its a very simple explanation as to why.

He has no front office experience. At any level. This is all new to him.

I think that is the core of the issue

You can see how much he genuinely likes the players he drafts and how excited he is. I don't think that is a show. He spends months debating and arguing about these guys, and is always excited to get 'their guy'

But, at some point, that's a handicap. Picks and prospects are currency. GMs have to be cold and calculating and balance the prospect needs with the NHL teams needs.

I don't doubt he's diligent, but he's been unwilling to make moves when he was in a good position to use his cap situation to his advantage. The likely reason is overvaluing his picks and prospects and it has made it impossible to get deals done.

My guess is he learned an important lesson this summer in where he had to, essentially, cut the cord on a top 10 pick in Savoie because he wasn't able to get anything else done for what is an offensively challenged 3rd line center in McCleod.

But again, this isn't an Marketing internship. This is a top tier position in a professional sports league. You can't have your GM have "learning experiences" that cost fans entire seasons.

And that is where we are at as a franchise.

Hoping Kevyn learned from his mistakes and makes good decisions this time.

But we know Adams was in on Murray and several others. He also is very particular about those negotiations not going public. He's mentioned it dozens of times. You don't know what you don't know.

Then there's the, "he doesn't trade prospects for players...errr I mean players I like" narrative that is an implosion of stance. Our 3rd liner doesn't score enough. That's what we're leaning on here.

I skipped over most of the FO stuff but it seemed bred from the same narrative but my apologies if I missed something legitimate.

 

[DJN21]

As for roster construction and the place we are in I cant help but fault the drafting to an extent. Not that we haven't potentially hit on some guys like Wahlberg, novikov, komarov etc so im not entirely blaming adams or the scouts. But taking small skilled forwards over and over and over and then realizing you cant fit a circle through a square peg in terms of team needs is baffling to me. Then having to double down on it and trade a former top 10 pick for at best a 3c is just mind numbing to me.

Its just poor asset management and moreover hes just covering his tracks in finally addressing the necessary top 6. I think our 4th line is finally addressed properly so kudos for that. But why did we get to this point in the first place? In my opinion which likely holds little value its because we haven't drafted for it to have internal options in those roles and we haven't been more proactive in realizing that quality bottom 6 vets being added to the team earlier might have helped the development of this team to being playoff caliber.

So in long I'm not an adams basher as it seems hes finally kinda getting it right but I do question his past actions/drafts/inexperience and how it has impacted this team to date. Theres plenty here that support the savoie for McLeod trade NOW and I get that. But no one can tell me with a straight face that more value couldn't have been extracted by trading the draft slot we took savoie in for a much better player....excelerating the "rebuild" but instead we took an undersized skill player we ended up having in spades and pinned ourselves into a corner of selling low.

Gms are never perfect so mistakes happen but it just chaps me...

 

[thewookie1]

As for roster construction and the place we are in I cant help but fault the drafting to an extent. Not that we haven't potentially hit on some guys like Wahlberg, novikov, komarov etc so im not entirely blaming adams or the scouts. But taking small skilled forwards over and over and over and then realizing you cant fit a circle through a square peg in terms of team needs is baffling to me. Then having to double down on it and trade a former top 10 pick for at best a 3c is just mind numbing to me.

Its just poor asset management and moreover hes just covering his tracks in finally addressing the necessary top 6. I think our 4th line is finally addressed properly so kudos for that. But why did we get to this point in the first place? In my opinion which likely holds little value its because we haven't drafted for it to have internal options in those roles and we haven't been more proactive in realizing that quality bottom 6 vets being added to the team earlier might have helped the development of this team to being playoff caliber.

So in long I'm not an adams basher as it seems hes finally kinda getting it right but I do question his past actions/drafts/inexperience and how it has impacted this team to date. Theres plenty here that support the savoie for McLeod trade NOW and I get that. But no one can tell me with a straight face that more value couldn't have been extracted by trading the draft slot we took savoie in for a much better player....excelerating the "rebuild" but instead we took an undersized skill player we ended up having in spades and pinned ourselves into a corner of selling low.

Gms are never perfect so mistakes happen but it just chaps me...

His original target was likely Marco Kasper as we had all but sent 16 to Ottawa for Murray and their 1st.

1st round picks, especially in the 10 range are rarely traded and when they are tend to turn out really bad for the team dealing the pick.

As for drafting strategy, the biggest issue could also be argued to have merely been that the Best Player Available always ended up being the small skill player. I can't exactly fault him for that. Seeing as we haven't exactly passed up bigger, well thought of players in order to get smaller guys.

 

[TehDoak]

Malenstyn and Lafferty are quality 4th liners. McLeod is a quality 3rd liner with the potential for a bit more still....you say he's "offensively challenged", yet when put with Draisaitl, he's performed well enough offensively. We really don't know what his offensive capability is, as Edmonton really hasn't had much offensive quality on their 3rd/4th lines. If we play McLeod with some combo of Benson/Zucker/Greenway/etc....Benson and Zucker are probably better offensively than a lot of what he's had to play with.

"Quality" 4th liners aren't hard to find. Plenty of guys in the AHL who could be quality 4th liners if given the opportunity. Lots of guys in Europe who could be quality 4th liners. It's typically more about scheme fit than anything.

McCleod's lack of offense is why the Oilers paid a premium to go get Adam Henrique at the deadline

McLeod has never been an elite offensive player at lower levels, so its unlikely he starts lighting it up now or in the future.

Ryan McLeod (b.1999) Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Ryan McLeod, a hockey player from Mississauga, ONT born Sep 21 1999 who was active from 2014 to 2024.

www.hockeydb.com

I don't think there is a ton of offensive upside there, regardless of teammates.

I think the root of your issue is that Adams is waiting to see who amongst the kids sticks as top 6/top 9 forwards and not being more active in getting a "more legit" top 6/top 9 guy than Zucker and/or Greenway. I don't share that concern, but I acknowledge that some may have that concern.....and that it may be valid if some of the kids don't step up.

The issue is, Adams was at a competitive advantage during the flap cap post pandemic to acquire players for less because of excess cap hit. And he didn't take advantage of it. Not talking about taking a salary dump, but taking on a contracted player for less

The two specific examples:

-Mariano (traded in division for a 3rd round pick in summer of 2022)
- Oliver Bjorkstrand (traded for a 3rd and a 4th)

I'm sure there are more examples, but those were the two that immediately came to mind.

 

[DJN21]

His original target was likely Marco Kasper as we had all but sent 16 to Ottawa for Murray and their 1st.

1st round picks, especially in the 10 range are rarely traded and when they are tend to turn out really bad for the team dealing the pick.

As for drafting strategy, the biggest issue could also be argued to have merely been that the Best Player Available always ended up being the small skill player. I can't exactly fault him for that. Seeing as we haven't exactly passed up bigger, well thought of players in order to get smaller guys.

Id argue thats what's wrong with the strategy then. Best player available even if they don't fit your need is nonsense if you sell that player off for pennies later on. Why not just draft the type of player you need? Thats a dumb approach.

 

[thewookie1]

Id argue thats what's wrong with the strategy then. Best player available even if they don't fit your need is nonsense if you sell that player off for pennies later on. Why not just draft the type of player you need? Thats a dumb approach.

Well the issue with drafting for need is you tend to get worse players and/or you overdraft and reach.

For instance the last thing you want is to waste a 1st on a 4th line player straight up. We did that more or less with both Grigorenko and Girgensons but at least the latter had long term use. Savoie had 2 shots to make an impact on the management and more or less just helped them find Benson. The value sucks, don’t get me wrong, but prospects and picks seem to be suddenly losing value for unknown reasons.

 

[DJN21]

Well the issue with drafting for need is you tend to get worse players and/or you overdraft and reach.

For instance the last thing you want is to waste a 1st on a 4th line player straight up. We did that more or less with both Grigorenko and Girgensons but at least the latter had long term use. Savoie had 2 shots to make an impact on the management and more or less just helped them find Benson. The value sucks, don’t get me wrong, but prospects and picks seem to be suddenly losing value for unknown reasons.

None of them are on the current team...hence my point of trading from that position of draft power for an established NHL player of a higher caliber than Mccleod.

Draft picks are the be all end all until they end up exactly where your post nails it. Adams has to be okay trading a lottery pick for a sure thing AT SOME POINT. He hasn't done that and it wreaks of punting the ball further down the road of the most embarassing NHL franchise....

Tampa and Vegas havent needed their 1sts lately....but lets just hoard them and draft small wingers. Then when we need a "complete" team trade assets for pennies on the dollar because we didn't act with urgency sooner.

Just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not calling for Adams head or trying to be a jerk I just dont understand the thinking. Either way I'm here I guess lol

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Id argue thats what's wrong with the strategy then. Best player available even if they don't fit your need is nonsense if you sell that player off for pennies later on. Why not just draft the type of player you need? Thats a dumb approach.

BPA is always the proper call in the 1st, especially as you don't know how they will further develop. As for Savoie his value was low because he gets hurt a lot for juniors, which questions his durability against the big boys.

 

[Jacob582]

The issue is, Adams was at a competitive advantage during the flap cap post pandemic to acquire players for less because of excess cap hit. And he didn't take advantage of it. Not talking about taking a salary dump, but taking on a contracted player for less

The two specific examples:

-Mariano (traded in division for a 3rd round pick in summer of 2022)
- Oliver Bjorkstrand (traded for a 3rd and a 4th)

I'm sure there are more examples, but those were the two that immediately came to mind.

Will Butcher!

 

[Zman5778]

Id argue thats what's wrong with the strategy then. Best player available even if they don't fit your need is nonsense if you sell that player off for pennies later on. Why not just draft the type of player you need? Thats a dumb approach.

Savoie didn't "get solid off for pennies" because we drafted Benson and Helenius.

And BPA is a slight bit of a misnomer, IMO. Most teams rank players into tiers, as Adams/Forton have alluded to in the Behind Blue and Gold series. Benson was the ONLY player available in his tier -- teams aren't going to drop to a completely lower tier just because a guy might possibly be or become redundant. The BB&G on this year's draft certainly seemed to imply that Helenius was on his own tier as well (among those who were left to draft).

 

[Matt Ress]

I imagine Adams is waiting for the team to be good before selling off 1sts. I agree more money could have been spent but we also can't believe that this is somehow our ultimate contender team.

Eventually a top 6 player without big questions or warts will shake free and I hope Adams will do what needs to be done to get the boys to the next level.

 

[DJN21]

BPA is always the proper call in the 1st, especially as you don't know how they will further develop. As for Savoie his value was low because he gets hurt a lot for juniors, which questions his durability against the big boys.

I dont disagree about savoie or his durability my issue isn't with trading him the player...its the mismanagement of the asset he became. We don't need every 1st round pick to be a lotto ticket like savoie was. Its okay to make a trade to improve the team NOW. Maybe adams doesn't have that ability with other GMs idk.

Making the savoie pick just to have it lose that much value in like 2 years when it could've been used more usefully is my point.

Im not hell bent on savoie the player at all. Kinds the opposite I was meh on him and im just as meh on McLeod

 

[Chainshot]

"Quality" 4th liners aren't hard to find. Plenty of guys in the AHL who could be quality 4th liners if given the opportunity. Lots of guys in Europe who could be quality 4th liners. It's typically more about scheme fit than anything.

McCleod's lack of offense is why the Oilers paid a premium to go get Adam Henrique at the deadline

McLeod has never been an elite offensive player at lower levels, so its unlikely he starts lighting it up now or in the future.

Ryan McLeod (b.1999) Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Ryan McLeod, a hockey player from Mississauga, ONT born Sep 21 1999 who was active from 2014 to 2024.

www.hockeydb.com

I don't think there is a ton of offensive upside there, regardless of teammates.



The issue is, Adams was at a competitive advantage during the flap cap post pandemic to acquire players for less because of excess cap hit. And he didn't take advantage of it. Not talking about taking a salary dump, but taking on a contracted player for less

The two specific examples:

-Mariano (traded in division for a 3rd round pick in summer of 2022)
- Oliver Bjorkstrand (traded for a 3rd and a 4th)

I'm sure there are more examples, but those were the two that immediately came to mind.

Marino wasn't traded for a just a third. There was a once-well regarded former first round pick in that deal as well.

 

[TageGod]

I dont disagree about savoie or his durability my issue isn't with trading him the player...its the mismanagement of the asset he became. We don't need every 1st round pick to be a lotto ticket like savoie was. Its okay to make a trade to improve the team NOW. Maybe adams doesn't have that ability with other GMs idk.

Making the savoie pick just to have it lose that much value in like 2 years when it could've been used more usefully is my point.

Im not hell bent on savoie the player at all. Kinds the opposite I was meh on him and im just as meh on McLeod

What point are you trying to make here? Idk why he was a lotto ticket as a top 10 pick. It only lost value because he chose to sell low. Being stuck in the WHL is what hurt his value, which is not his fault. We will find out soon over in EDM.

I really wanted this year's first gone for a top 6 payer.

 

[CowbellConray]

"Quality" 4th liners aren't hard to find. Plenty of guys in the AHL who could be quality 4th liners if given the opportunity. Lots of guys in Europe who could be quality 4th liners. It's typically more about scheme fit than anything.

I think the last decade of Sabres hockey have shown that AHL and Europe players do not simply cut into a lineup as a quality 4th liner. We've seen this team go down that that path before and the lack of investment into the the bottom six and 4th line has been a talking point of this team for a while as a reason for our lack of success.

I think Adams has missed opportunities to address weaknesses in this team over the past several years. However, I dont think "there are quality 4th liners all over the AHL and Europe" is a fair statement. there is a reason these types of players are moved at the deadline or signed for premiums.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I also hope that Adams learned from his approach to the 2023 trade deadline and how not making a meaningful add and coming up one point short was regretable.

If they are in the hunt at the TDL and Adams doesn't push meaningful chips into the middle to get the team in and talks about how the guys in the room have earned a shot to make it themselves...

Adams? You think that was Kevyn Adam's call. Take out GMKA and put in Pegula.

 

[Jim Bob]

Adams? You think that was Kevyn Adam's call. Take out GMKA and put in Pegula.

I absolutely think it was Adams's call to largely stand pat at the TDL.

It doesn't cost a lot cash-wise to make moves at the TDL. And if they make the playoffs, they get a lot of money through selling playoff tickets.