The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[DapperCam]

History of THE sport?

History of all major sports.
Hockey
Basketball
Football
Baseball

Sabres own it.

Amazing how 50% say Adam did a good job.

KC Royals had a 27 year playoff drought (being sandwiched by World Series appearances helps though). Sacramento Kings had a 16 year playoff drought. Montreal Expos/Washington Nationals had a 30 year playoff drought.

Now…it is a little bit tougher to make the playoffs in baseball (only 40% of teams make it vs 50% in the NHL), and MLB doesn’t have a salary cap which can keep bad teams bad. But I still think those droughts are worse.

Between 1969-2011 the Expos/Nationals had ONE playoff appearance.

———

To bring things back to the roster, I’m not sure enough has been done to put us over the edge. Revamping the bottom 6 is like the easiest thing for a GM to do, and they don’t usually have to overpay in FA and give up premium prospects to do it.

It may take the Senators/Red Wings not taking that next step and teams like the Lightning/Capitals taking a step back to make it.

The team was frankly a disappointment last year in the way they showed up for games. We must have led the league in goals allowed in the first 5 minutes of a game. Hopefully Ruff can button that up.

 

[jc17]

GMKA has locked down the core. Thompson, Cozens, Dahlin and Power. How they do or don’t do is how the Sabres will do.

Tuch is good enough, peterska, Quinn, appear to be. Hopefully Benson is.

Samuelson, Byrom appear to be good enough

For the skaters, I think it boils down to Cozens and Byram. Those two will determine if we have an actual top 6, and actual top 4.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Unfortunately we are currently on the worst run in the history of the sport and the comments are going to reflect that fact.

We all know that. And it's best to be objective about it.

But certain posters do seem to have an agenda where they are absolutely negative about anything and everything. To the point where i can read their posts knowing exactly who has written it without needing to look at a user name or avatar.

 

[Matt Ress]

For the skaters, I think it boils down to Cozens and Byram. Those two will determine if we have an actual top 6, and actual top 4.

For me it's the top end. Do we see healthy Thompson get back to form, Tuch return to an impact player and Power take a step in the right direction? I think that will make room for the Cozens, Quinns and JJs of the world.

We will probably have young middle 6 players emerging for the next few years but the top end guys are harder to get and more important imo

 

[TehDoak]

I hate defending Adams because I am not thrilled with his overall body of work, but the team he took over had zero chance of competing in the near future. Losing Jack gutted the high-end talent pool of the team, but blaming Adams for that when it was Pegula who would not approve the Surgery over insurance coverage is misguided.

As for the current team, completely rebuilding the bottom six with quality bottom six players is not something that is a typical offseason for most teams. Picking up good roleplayers is not easy for small market teams. What Adams was able to procure this offseason in that department deserves some props.

The coaching and especially special team coaching has been abysmal. Hopefully Ruff can turn that around, but I look at the possibilities for the powerplay,

Dahlin
Power
Byram
Thompson
Tuch
Quinn
Peterka
Cozens
Benson

I am honestly excited. That group is so young and there is so much potential there.

Looking at the prospect pool options going forward, combined with current personnel, and the top six is actually quite solid. Could they use a generational talent? Of course, but they are going to be able to compete moving forward with this group, which is a good place to be in.

If Ruff can cobble two bottom six lines together with this season's additions that are effective in their roles, this team may surprise a lot of people.

It really isn't all doom and gloom. Honestly, if you can't find any positives in the direction the team is heading, you really aren't trying, and maybe it is time to take a break for a while

I think you can be hopeful for a team but skeptical, if that makes sense.

I see the talent there. It's a talented team. It's a talented prospect pipeline.

I feel we are missing elements in the top 6 forwards/top 4 d-men as well as veteran leaders who can push this team to the next level. I see them as, at the top end, a bubble team. If we get career years out of a few guys, it's absolutely possible this is a playoff team. But...it's not like other teams where lots of things have to go wrong for them to miss the playoffs.

The bigger issue for me is that the front office hasn't shown the ability to roster shape or build nor have we seen the buy in from ownership to spend at or above the cap for a sustained period. Until we see that from the front office, I think we are in a steady state of 'well lets hope everything breaks right and we can make the playoffs'

 

[BFLO]

We all know that. And it's best to be objective about it.

But certain posters do seem to have an agenda where they are absolutely negative about anything and everything. To the point where i can read their posts knowing exactly who has written it without needing to look at a user name or avatar.

Is it really an agenda when that's just been the reality of this team for 13 years in a row?

Seems like the posters who are actually pushing an agenda are the ones on the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

[Sabreality]

Is it really an agenda when that's just been the reality of this team for 13 years in a row?

Seems like the posters who are actually pushing an agenda are the ones on the opposite end of the spectrum.

I just think there's a big disconnect between sects of the fanbase who view 13 years! 13 years! versus the great reset of 5 years ago with Adams. 7, 9, 13 years ago has nothing to do with this roster.

But...yeah, roster thread.

I'm excited for this season and this roster.

 

[Jim Bob]

Sabres' X-Factor This Season Could Be Jack Quinn - The Hockey Writers Buffalo Sabres Latest News, Analysis & More

The Buffalo Sabres have a lot of talent, but Jack Quinn could be the guy to get them over the hump in the coming season.

thehockeywriters.com

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

We all know that. And it's best to be objective about it.

But certain posters do seem to have an agenda where they are absolutely negative about anything and everything. To the point where i can read their posts knowing exactly who has written it without needing to look at a user name or avatar.

How is this about the roster? Honestly, these off-topic posts, critiquing other people's posting habits are literally worse than any opinion anyone could possibly have.

 

[Chainshot]

Comment on post content, not poster please. And this remains the roster thread.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk. I will start just dumping posts into the bin in here going forward.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

So reading Jame....errr,...Teh Doaks comment about Vet leadership/top 6 player.....who could we realistically go after, and what are we willing to give up for said player???

Stamkos was available, and as I stated before he signed with Nashville, he scared me for the Sabres. He has won multiple Cups, won personal awards, what does he have to play for going forward, especially for a bottom feeder like Buffalo??? I use him as an example because even a guy like Malkin, why go after him? So who realistically has gas left in the tank and still add that fire and leadership that Tkachuk brought to Florida to get them over the hump?

The other issue is that in order to get Tkachuk, the Panthers sent a first line winger, top right shot defenseman, prospect and a first. Are we really going to gut our team to try and bring in said vet player? Sucks because any time a player of that caliber comes to UFA, he's not signing in Buffalo.

My point is that saying Adams isn't shaping the roster correctly, sitting on extra cap space, etc...... I honestly don't see a way he could without gutting the roster/pipeline, or bringing in a player like Stone who fits the criteria but has missed almost half the games the last 3/4 years.

 

[Irie]

I think you can be hopeful for a team but skeptical, if that makes sense.

I see the talent there. It's a talented team. It's a talented prospect pipeline.

I feel we are missing elements in the top 6 forwards/top 4 d-men as well as veteran leaders who can push this team to the next level. I see them as, at the top end, a bubble team. If we get career years out of a few guys, it's absolutely possible this is a playoff team. But...it's not like other teams where lots of things have to go wrong for them to miss the playoffs.

The bigger issue for me is that the front office hasn't shown the ability to roster shape or build nor have we seen the buy in from ownership to spend at or above the cap for a sustained period. Until we see that from the front office, I think we are in a steady state of 'well lets hope everything breaks right and we can make the playoffs'

Skeptical is one thing, but so may have written off this season before a single game has been played.

Many posters are ignoring the positive signs and repeatedly posting rants with the singular focus of trying to rally the community against Adams.

When posting something positive or saying you are looking forward to the season is labelled an "agenda", there is a problem. Hockey is a game we watch for entertainment. Why anyone would subscribe to the belief that something they enjoy is going to be ruined before it has even occurred is the signs of an apocalyptic defeatist.

This years roster is the most balanced it has been in a decade+. The new coach has a track record of success. Fans want flashy, star studded changes, but most teams that are where the Sabres currently are that make the jump to the next level do so with under the radar moves bringing in better role players.

Look at the Canucks last year. They changed their coach, and added solid bottom six talent and bottom pairing guys, Lafferty, Blueger, Suter, Cole and Saucy. Those aren't sexy moves, but they really paid off.

There is a lot of reasons to look at the current Sabres roster and to look forward to this season. There should be some pretty good hockey this year in Buffalo.

 

[Der Jaeger]

So reading Jame....errr,...Teh Doaks comment about Vet leadership/top 6 player.....who could we realistically go after, and what are we willing to give up for said player???

Stamkos was available, and as I stated before he signed with Nashville, he scared me for the Sabres. He has won multiple Cups, won personal awards, what does he have to play for going forward, especially for a bottom feeder like Buffalo??? I use him as an example because even a guy like Malkin, why go after him? So who realistically has gas left in the tank and still add that fire and leadership that Tkachuk brought to Florida to get them over the hump?

The other issue is that in order to get Tkachuk, the Panthers sent a first line winger, top right shot defenseman, prospect and a first. Are we really going to gut our team to try and bring in said vet player? Sucks because any time a player of that caliber comes to UFA, he's not signing in Buffalo.

My point is that saying Adams isn't shaping the roster correctly, sitting on extra cap space, etc...... I honestly don't see a way he could without gutting the roster/pipeline, or bringing in a player like Stone who fits the criteria but has missed almost half the games the last 3/4 years.

I see your point and agree that bringing in a Stamkos, Kane, etc. probably doesn't get this particular team over the hump. I think the biggest change they needed was already made, which was the change from Granato to Ruff.

Granato was great for pulling the roster and organization out of the fire they were in, and getting a bunch of players back on track developmentally. So there's no ill feelings on my part of Granato. He did what needed to be done.

Ruff is a guy who can compete mentally with the other coaches in the league. He can coach many different styles. And he holds players accountable. The roster is ready for that.

As far as the big addition, I've been vocal about adding Tkachuk (Brady, not Matthew). There's more to that type of move than adding a veteran presence. I wouldn't be for that type of move for a slick scoring winger or a point producing defenseman. Tkachuk adds a power forward who can score in front of the net and add toughness the team needs.

Just imagine the power play. Thompson, Dahlin, and Cozens on the umbrella, Tuch low and Tkachuk net front. That's a lot of ugly goal potential.

As far as the price:
1st line winger: Peterka
Top pair defender: Samuelsson or Byrum
Prospect: pick one
1st

I'd do that.

 

[toddkaz]

KC Royals had a 27 year playoff drought (being sandwiched by World Series appearances helps though). Sacramento Kings had a 16 year playoff drought. Montreal Expos/Washington Nationals had a 30 year playoff drought.

Now…it is a little bit tougher to make the playoffs in baseball (only 40% of teams make it vs 50% in the NHL), and MLB doesn’t have a salary cap which can keep bad teams bad. But I still think those droughts are worse.

Between 1969-2011 the Expos/Nationals had ONE playoff appearance.

———

To bring things back to the roster, I’m not sure enough has been done to put us over the edge. Revamping the bottom 6 is like the easiest thing for a GM to do, and they don’t usually have to overpay in FA and give up premium prospects to do it.

It may take the Senators/Red Wings not taking that next step and teams like the Lightning/Capitals taking a step back to make it.

The team was frankly a disappointment last year in the way they showed up for games. We must have led the league in goals allowed in the first 5 minutes of a game. Hopefully Ruff can button that up.

Sorry meant currently. I just got a little excited about how bad the team really is. Currently the ly are the worst out of all 4 sports.

 

[BFLO]

I just think there's a big disconnect between sects of the fanbase who view 13 years! 13 years! versus the great reset of 5 years ago with Adams. 7, 9, 13 years ago has nothing to do with this roster.

But...yeah, roster thread.

I'm excited for this season and this roster.

If you're going to ignore the 8 years before Adams... then he's solely responsible for the failure of the past 4 seasons. I don't see how that's any more palatable. But to each their own I guess.

I too am excited for this season. I have serious doubts about this roster. But I hope to be wrong.

Skeptical is one thing, but so may have written off this season before a single game has been played.

Many posters are ignoring the positive signs and repeatedly posting rants with the singular focus of trying to rally the community against Adams.

When posting something positive or saying you are looking forward to the season is labelled an "agenda", there is a problem. Hockey is a game we watch for entertainment. Why anyone would subscribe to the belief that something they enjoy is going to be ruined before it has even occurred is the signs of an apocalyptic defeatist.

This years roster is the most balanced it has been in a decade+. The new coach has a track record of success. Fans want flashy, star studded changes, but most teams that are where the Sabres currently are that make the jump to the next level do so with under the radar moves bringing in better role players.

Look at the Canucks last year. They changed their coach, and added solid bottom six talent and bottom pairing guys, Lafferty, Blueger, Suter, Cole and Saucy. Those aren't sexy moves, but they really paid off.

There is a lot of reasons to look at the current Sabres roster and to look forward to this season. There should be some pretty good hockey this year in Buffalo.

Just going to omit the Canucks biggest addition in Hronek?

Where's our top 4 RD equivalent to Hronek that we acquired for futures? Byram? He's left handed when we already have 2 lefties better than him filling the same role. And we paid a top 6 forward off our roster to get him, not futures.

Where's our veteran "defense first" right handed Dman who plays 18:41 a night and PKs his ass off in Ian Cole? And he's actually good at it unlike EJ. Top 4 in ice time among Canuck D-men in the regular season.

 

[Mattilaus]

I see your point and agree that bringing in a Stamkos, Kane, etc. probably doesn't get this particular team over the hump. I think the biggest change they needed was already made, which was the change from Granato to Ruff.

Granato was great for pulling the roster and organization out of the fire they were in, and getting a bunch of players back on track developmentally. So there's no ill feelings on my part of Granato. He did what needed to be done.

Ruff is a guy who can compete mentally with the other coaches in the league. He can coach many different styles. And he holds players accountable. The roster is ready for that.

As far as the big addition, I've been vocal about adding Tkachuk (Brady, not Matthew). There's more to that type of move than adding a veteran presence. I wouldn't be for that type of move for a slick scoring winger or a point producing defenseman. Tkachuk adds a power forward who can score in front of the net and add toughness the team needs.

Just imagine the power play. Thompson, Dahlin, and Cozens on the umbrella, Tuch low and Tkachuk net front. That's a lot of ugly goal potential.

As far as the price:
1st line winger: Peterka
Top pair defender: Samuelsson or Byrum
Prospect: pick one
1st

I'd do that.

The problem is the price you are paying is being evaluated by you at peak value. Do you think the rest of the league views peterka as a top line winger? Huberdeau had just had like 115 point season when he was traded. Peterka by comparison has barely even played on the first line. Do you think the league views Samuelsson or Byram as top pairing D men? I have very large doubts.

If you think the price would be top line winger and a top pairing D, I think you will end up paying more than what you are guessing here.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

Bored. Do something, Darcy!

 

[Irie]

Just going to omit the Canucks biggest addition in Hronek?

Where's our top 4 RD equivalent to Hronek that we acquired for futures? Byram? He's left handed when we already have 2 lefties better than him filling the same role. And we paid a top 6 forward off our roster to get him, not futures.

Where's our veteran "defense first" right handed Dman who plays 18:41 a night and PKs his ass off in Ian Cole? And he's actually good at it unlike EJ. Top 4 in ice time among Canuck D-men in the regular season.

We are talking about the offseason moves. Hronek was not an offseason acquisition for Vancouver. The same way no one here is considering Byram an offseason move. Hronek was a TDL acquisition the previous season.

Do you believe none of the new guys are going to be near the top of the team in PK ice time in Buffalo this season? (that was rhetorical, I'm really not looking for an answer.)

You worry too much about handedness with the D. Dahlin, Samuelsson, Jokiharju and Clifton are all very strong playing on the RIght. Playing your offhand actually has a lot of advantages. Transition D is easier, It's a lot tougher to walk defenders or beat them outside-in(a goalies nightmare) when they are playing on their offhand. puck retrievals and breakouts are easier when playing on your offhand. Offensive zone passing and one timers are much more effective playing on your offhand. Really the biggest drawback to playing on your offhand is desperation puck clearing, and puck retrieval off the boards when cycling, but this team is more of a controlled breakout team, and their personnel tends to favor a puck possesion philosophy over a heavy cycling down low strategy, so the pros outweight the cons.

As for the D, if Byram and Dahlin can find the chemistry they flashed after the TDL, they may make a formidable top pairing. I also think that with all the defensively sound forward additions, Samuelsson won't have the physical load he has been carrying, and hopefully can stay healthy, which will open up a lot of pairing options for Ruff on the second and third pairings.

And yes, I'm looking forward to this season. I am choosing to be positive and focus on what could go right vs what may go wrong. This team has me excited. I do worry that it will take time for this team to gel with all the new additions and with them opening in Europe, but once they come together, this roster feels balanced enough to me to be a playoff team. I am just hoping that it doesn't take too long for them to develop some chemistry under a new coaching system, as I think that will be the one thing that will hold them back (assuming injuries aren't ridiculous).

 

[TehDoak]

So reading Jame....errr,...Teh Doaks comment about Vet leadership/top 6 player.....who could we realistically go after, and what are we willing to give up for said player???

Stamkos was available, and as I stated before he signed with Nashville, he scared me for the Sabres. He has won multiple Cups, won personal awards, what does he have to play for going forward, especially for a bottom feeder like Buffalo??? I use him as an example because even a guy like Malkin, why go after him? So who realistically has gas left in the tank and still add that fire and leadership that Tkachuk brought to Florida to get them over the hump?

The other issue is that in order to get Tkachuk, the Panthers sent a first line winger, top right shot defenseman, prospect and a first. Are we really going to gut our team to try and bring in said vet player? Sucks because any time a player of that caliber comes to UFA, he's not signing in Buffalo.

My point is that saying Adams isn't shaping the roster correctly, sitting on extra cap space, etc...... I honestly don't see a way he could without gutting the roster/pipeline, or bringing in a player like Stone who fits the criteria but has missed almost half the games the last 3/4 years.

This ends up being a circular argument because the counter is simply 'Not everyone who is available got moved'

And those who get moved may have not been available to the Sabres, so its really ends up being a big circle.

But, in the end, it's on the GM to improve the team. That is the bottom line.

In the end its not just about this summer. It's the past two summers post Eichel trade where the GM has had ample picks/prospects/cap space and not done anything of substance. And the summer he talked a big game about 'no stone unturned', he came up empty doing anything but swapping out bodies on the 4th line and overpaying for a offensively challenged 3rd line center.

 

[Matt Ress]

This ends up being a circular argument because the counter is simply 'Not everyone who is available got moved'

And those who get moved may have not been available to the Sabres, so its really ends up being a big circle.

But, in the end, it's on the GM to improve the team. That is the bottom line.

In the end its not just about this summer. It's the past two summers post Eichel trade where the GM has had ample picks/prospects/cap space and not done anything of substance. And the summer he talked a big game about 'no stone unturned', he came up empty doing anything but swapping out bodies on the 4th line and overpaying for a offensively challenged 3rd line center.

So in summation, we don't know who was available, at what price or if they would even come to Buffalo.

But it's still Kevyns fault that the guy I targeted isn't currently on the team, relative to the rest of the league. Got it yeah totes legit

 

[DapperCam]

Sorry meant currently. I just got a little excited about how bad the team really is. Currently the ly are the worst out of all 4 sports.

That I can agree with. Either us or the NY Jets.

 

[BFLO]

We are talking about the offseason moves. Hronek was not an offseason acquisition for Vancouver. The same way no one here is considering Byram an offseason move. Hronek was a TDL acquisition the previous season.

Do you believe none of the new guys are going to be near the top of the team in PK ice time in Buffalo this season? (that was rhetorical, I'm really not looking for an answer.)

You worry too much about handedness with the D. Dahlin, Samuelsson, Jokiharju and Clifton are all very strong playing on the RIght. Playing your offhand actually has a lot of advantages. Transition D is easier, It's a lot tougher to walk defenders or beat them outside-in(a goalies nightmare) when they are playing on their offhand. puck retrievals and breakouts are easier when playing on your offhand. Offensive zone passing and one timers are much more effective playing on your offhand. Really the biggest drawback to playing on your offhand is desperation puck clearing, and puck retrieval off the boards when cycling, but this team is more of a controlled breakout team, and their personnel tends to favor a puck possesion philosophy over a heavy cycling down low strategy, so the pros outweight the cons.

As for the D, if Byram and Dahlin can find the chemistry they flashed after the TDL, they may make a formidable top pairing. I also think that with all the defensively sound forward additions, Samuelsson won't have the physical load he has been carrying, and hopefully can stay healthy, which will open up a lot of pairing options for Ruff on the second and third pairings.

And yes, I'm looking forward to this season. I am choosing to be positive and focus on what could go right vs what may go wrong. This team has me excited. I do worry that it will take time for this team to gel with all the new additions and with them opening in Europe, but once they come together, this roster feels balanced enough to me to be a playoff team. I am just hoping that it doesn't take too long for them to develop some chemistry under a new coaching system, as I think that will be the one thing that will hold them back (assuming injuries aren't ridiculous).

Where did you say offseason only? You said "last year". And you also listed "new coach" as one of the things the Canucks improved. But they got that new coach in season, not during the off season. Tocchet was named head coach January 22, 2023.

So no, you weren't talking about the offseason only.

I agree that handedness isn't the be all, end all. Although it does play a small factor. I'm more concerned about the overall balance of the D.

We've got 3x top paring (potential) left shot PMD. 2x bottom pairing right shot PMD and then Samuelsson as our only defensive specialist.

I don't think we need a left shot/right shot on every pair. But I do think we need at least 1 right shot in the top 4. We have zero. I'd love for Clifton or Joki to unexpectedly break out but I don't think even the most optimistic among us here count either of them in our top 4.

I also think we need more than 1 defensive specialist. Especially since the one we have has only averaged 53 games played per season between the NHL and AHL over the last 3 seasons.

 

[Irie]

Where did you say offseason only?

You responded to a back and forth that was discussing the offseason. You can find the start of the exchange with the post that starts:

This off-season has been completely different.

And yes, Tocchet was also hired before the offseason, but it was the offseason where Vancouver also remade their bottom 6/bottom pairing with guys that better fit the new system which typically would be ironed out during a full training camp.

Regardless, it was just a small example, there really was no need to try to wordsmith a singular thought in a larger post into something it isn't to try to undermine my narrative, I was not claiming anything concrete, just giving an example of a possibility to offer hope that this season may be a fun season for Sabres fans.

 

[TehDoak]

So in summation, we don't know who was available, at what price or if they would even come to Buffalo.

But it's still Kevyns fault that the guy I targeted isn't currently on the team, relative to the rest of the league. Got it yeah totes legit

Literally the guys job to improve the team and fix roster issues.

The ‘well nobody was available’ argument doesn’t fly when they haven’t added a top six forward to the team since Tuch got here in the eichel trade. That was in Nov 2021. 3 full offseason and 2.5 regular seasons.

Adams sat on his hands for far too long and when he declared to the world he was going to make moves he failed to.

 

[Jim Bob]

Literally the guys job to improve the team and fix roster issues.

The ‘well nobody was available’ argument doesn’t fly when they haven’t added a top six forward to the team since Tuch got here in the eichel trade. That was in Nov 2021. 3 full offseason and 2.5 regular seasons.

Adams sat on his hands for far too long and when he declared to the world he was going to make moves he failed to.

Zach Benson would disagree.