The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Zman5778]

Didn't get a top 6 so he gets a C. Long and short of the offseason. Top 6 would be an A. They don't need any D.

And for me, it's the exact opposite. I don't think we need a top 6. We've got Tage and Cozens entrenched as our top 2 centers (regardless of personal belief, Cozens is at the bare minimum starting as a center this year).....we've got Tuch/JJP/Quinn/Benson/Kulich/Rosen (maybe Walhberg, maybe possibly Helenius) competing for various spots in the top 6. We brought in Zucker to be a middle 6 wing and if a couple of kids stand out, he can shift to a 4th line role. We've got PLENTY of scoring ability in the top 6/9. I personally don't see the need for another top 6 guy.

Where I do see a need is a legit 2nd pair RHD. Clifton and Jokiharju are best as 3rd pair RHDs, and neither can play the left side effectively at all.

We're counting on 3 puck movers and Samuelsson to be our top 4 defensemen......and the actual defensive ability of both Byram and Power are quite questionable at this time IMO. So I had been pounding the table for a legit top 4 RHD to pair with one of the LHDs, push Sammy down to pair with Clifton/Joker.

But that's me.

 

[tsujimoto74]

That's on our management team(s) more than anything.

4th line is the easiest thing to fix in season if its not working. 4th liners are moved pretty frequently and easy to acquire, either via waivers or with mid/late round picks. Having the best 4th line in the NHL isn't going to make a big difference in where you finish at the end of the year. It's typically something teams will beef up going into the playoffs where match-ups and intimidation over a 7 game series matter more than they do over the course of an 82 game season

It's like tuning the engine performance on a car. It'll help you get a little more out of what you have. But no matter how much you tune your honda civic, you aren't beating a tesla model S off the line.

That is why it's weird that people are holding up the retool'd 4th line as a big accomplishment. It's not. It just seems like a lot because of how little Adams has done previously. The issues in our top 6 forward group and top 4 d-men that were unaddressed will have a much bigger impact than our shiny new 4th line. We fixed a micro issue while leaving many macro issues unresolved.

This is a funny comment considering whose 4th line we poached 2/3 of and how impactful the line was for them as essentially their only defensive matchup line.

 

[Zman5778]

This is a funny comment considering whose 4th line we poached 2/3 of and how impactful the line was for them as essentially their only defensive matchup line.

Malenstyn/Dowd/NAK quite literally dragged Washington to a playoff spot. There was no more impactful 4th line in the NHL.

And we got 2/3rds of them.

 

[TehDoak]

Malenstyn/Dowd/NAK quite literally dragged Washington to a playoff spot. There was no more impactful 4th line in the NHL.

And we got 2/3rds of them.

Can you quantify this is any meaningful way?

I mean, I didn't watch any caps games, and my thought is: hot goalie + hot ovechkin is what led to their late season run. I'm open to being wrong though.

 

[TageGod]

This thread is like arguing with the wall about what shade of green it is. Probably for everyone.

They should already have an app that identify colors. Point it at the shade of green and it tells you.

And for me, it's the exact opposite. I don't think we need a top 6. We've got Tage and Cozens entrenched as our top 2 centers (regardless of personal belief, Cozens is at the bare minimum starting as a center this year).....we've got Tuch/JJP/Quinn/Benson/Kulich/Rosen (maybe Walhberg, maybe possibly Helenius) competing for various spots in the top 6. We brought in Zucker to be a middle 6 wing and if a couple of kids stand out, he can shift to a 4th line role. We've got PLENTY of scoring ability in the top 6/9. I personally don't see the need for another top 6 guy.

Where I do see a need is a legit 2nd pair RHD. Clifton and Jokiharju are best as 3rd pair RHDs, and neither can play the left side effectively at all.

We're counting on 3 puck movers and Samuelsson to be our top 4 defensemen......and the actual defensive ability of both Byram and Power are quite questionable at this time IMO. So I had been pounding the table for a legit top 4 RHD to pair with one of the LHDs, push Sammy down to pair with Clifton/Joker.

But that's me.

Samuelsson was a top 4 D for sure when healthy. This is the new age NHL you don't need stay at home D on every line. Benson is our top 6 option, or Zucker. I have 0 confidence in either of those to be a top 6 winger this year.

 

[Matt Ress]

Don't worry, soon we will have hockey, then we can argue about individual games and line combos instead.

I honestly cannot wait

 

[Zman5778]

Can you quantify this is any meaningful way?

I mean, I didn't watch any caps games, and my thought is: hot goalie + hot ovechkin is what led to their late season run. I'm open to being wrong though.

I'm pretty sure I read a stat that stated that Malenstyn/Dowd/NAK started in the defensive zone something like 90% of the time......yet their shifts finished in the offensive zone like 50% of the time. Hopefully I'll remember to go find that stat when I get home from work.

So while some of their counting and fancy stats may look abysmal (thanks to their horrendous defensive zone start %).......they most certainly flipped the ice more often than not and set the table for the actual scorers to do their jobs.

But there is a legitimate question as to how much of an effect that Dowd had on Beck and NAK.......and if Lafferty can have the same effect between those two

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

This thread is like arguing with the wall about what shade of green it is. Probably for everyone.

There's an advert -Smarty mobile about shade of white paint

 

[Dubi Doo]

And for me, it's the exact opposite. I don't think we need a top 6. We've got Tage and Cozens entrenched as our top 2 centers (regardless of personal belief, Cozens is at the bare minimum starting as a center this year).....we've got Tuch/JJP/Quinn/Benson/Kulich/Rosen (maybe Walhberg, maybe possibly Helenius) competing for various spots in the top 6. We brought in Zucker to be a middle 6 wing and if a couple of kids stand out, he can shift to a 4th line role. We've got PLENTY of scoring ability in the top 6/9. I personally don't see the need for another top 6 guy.

Where I do see a need is a legit 2nd pair RHD. Clifton and Jokiharju are best as 3rd pair RHDs, and neither can play the left side effectively at all.

We're counting on 3 puck movers and Samuelsson to be our top 4 defensemen......and the actual defensive ability of both Byram and Power are quite questionable at this time IMO. So I had been pounding the table for a legit top 4 RHD to pair with one of the LHDs, push Sammy down to pair with Clifton/Joker.

But that's me.

Agreed 110%. I think Marino was the biggest miss this offseason. He's not physical, but he's steady, which is what we desperately need.

 

[Chainshot]

Can you quantify this is any meaningful way?

I mean, I didn't watch any caps games, and my thought is: hot goalie + hot ovechkin is what led to their late season run. I'm open to being wrong though.

There are some bloggers who went into length about the Caps 4th line and it's use. One of them popped some links in the Malenstyn thread shortly after the acquisition. There is also stuff like this -

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/washington-capitals/features/washington-capitals-beck-malenstyn-impressing-fourth-line-grinder

...out there. He had some of the most slanted d-zone deployment of any player in the NHL last year along with NAK and Dowd, and they flipped possession a remarkable number of times.

 

[Sabreality]

Agreed 110%. I think Marino was the biggest miss this offseason. He's not physical, but he's steady, which is what we desperately need.

Can Joker still develop into a steadier Marino type or have we capped his ceiling just turning 25? I see a similar player when Marino played in PIT, he had his warts and hiccups there when he came in at 22-24yrs old, didn't truly become more steady until the last couple of seasons...under Lindy.

 

[Zman5778]

Can Joker still develop into a steadier Marino type or have we capped his ceiling just turning 25? I see a similar player when Marino played in PIT, he had his warts and hiccups there when he came in at 22-24yrs old, didn't truly become more steady until the last couple of seasons...under Lindy.

It's possible that Joker could still develop into a Marino/Tallinder-TYPE of defenseman. When he plays his best, that is certainly how he plays.

It's Joker's consistency that is the huge issue.

 

[Dubi Doo]

It's possible that Joker could still develop into a Marino/Tallinder-TYPE of defenseman. When he plays his best, that is certainly how he plays.

It's Joker's consistency that is the huge issue.

Yup, and I dont think pairing him with Power is helping at all. I'm fine with him on the 3rd pairing with a stay at home type.

 

[Diaspora]

NHL's top nine unsigned RFAs of 2024: Latest rumours, reports

Top-pair defencemen and No. 1 goalies. Bridge candidates and future superstars needing long-term deals — the 2024 class of RFAs offers a bit of everything. Luke Fox has the latest on the top RFAs of 2024.

www.sportsnet.ca

Well, at least there are 6 better unsigned RFAs out there and Detroit has 2 of those 6...

This article has Preds' forward Philip Tomasino in trade rumors to Buffalo. About 20 points in 40 games last year.

Tomasino for Krebs as a possibility? Change of scenery for both wouldn't hurt. Does a move like that improve the team, or is it just more of the same?

I'm still rooting for Krebs to break out, but it's beginning to look like a long shot.

 

[Jim Bob]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5748465/2024/09/06/buffalo-sabres-cap-space-devon-levi-prospects-questions/

Of the teams that made the playoffs last season, the Capitals finished the season with the most unused cap space at $1.599 million. It’s tough to compete in the NHL when you don’t spend.

Fairburn lays out a lot of quality questions heading into camp.

 

[DapperCam]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5748465/2024/09/06/buffalo-sabres-cap-space-devon-levi-prospects-questions/

Fairburn lays out a lot of quality questions heading into camp.

A related fact is that the teams with the youngest rosters rarely make the playoffs. If your team is young, you probably have a bunch of ELCs and first bridge contracts.

The Sabres will once again have the youngest roster in the NHL this season. Which would make sense if we were in year 1 of a rebuild and not year 3 (or 4? or 5? not sure how to demarcate the separate “rebuilds”). Last year the 10 youngest teams all missed the playoffs.

 

[Zman5778]

I know we're starting a new thread once Camp starts.....

But holy crap people. This is the roster thread.

Take the Pegula talk elsewhere.

 

[TehDoak]

This article has Preds' forward Philip Tomasino in trade rumors to Buffalo. About 20 points in 40 games last year.

Tomasino for Krebs as a possibility? Change of scenery for both wouldn't hurt. Does a move like that improve the team, or is it just more of the same?

I'm still rooting for Krebs to break out, but it's beginning to look like a long shot.

I mean, on the surface it makes some sense, Tomasino for Krebs is two guys lost in the depth chart. Buffalo added two bottom six centers.

My guess is that Krebs probably has a pending trade request in. It really shouldn't be much of a negotiation at this point. Maybe a marginal raise on his QO. Its not like he has a case he should be making 2-3M. He's not getting that anywhere.

The problem is, I don't think a swap helps either player out. They'll be in the same spot as a 13th forward. The teams would just be swapping headaches.

 

[Matt Ress]

I mean, on the surface it makes some sense, Tomasino for Krebs is two guys lost in the depth chart. Buffalo added two bottom six centers.

My guess is that Krebs probably has a pending trade request in. It really shouldn't be much of a negotiation at this point. Maybe a marginal raise on his QO. Its not like he has a case he should be making 2-3M. He's not getting that anywhere.

The problem is, I don't think a swap helps either player out. They'll be in the same spot as a 13th forward. The teams would just be swapping headaches.

I agree. It's probably best for both parties to move along and the lack of urgency to sign him is a big red arrow pointing to a trade. Hopefully a versatile forward comes back.

 

[Matt Ress]

It's possible that Joker could still develop into a Marino/Tallinder-TYPE of defenseman. When he plays his best, that is certainly how he plays.

It's Joker's consistency that is the huge issue.

There's a good amount of depth at the D position but wouldn't it be great to see a Komarov or Novikov be able to make that jump. I know I know Novikov is a lefty and Komarov is probably at least another year away but either could be a defensive upgrade to the bottom 4 without being offensive black holes. We're probably a year or two away from though from getting production out of the D stables.

 

[Zman5778]

There's a good amount of depth at the D position but wouldn't it be great to see a Komarov or Novikov be able to make that jump. I know I know Novikov is a lefty and Komarov is probably at least another year away but either could be a defensive upgrade to the bottom 4 without being offensive black holes. We're probably a year or two away from though from getting production out of the D stables.

My hope is that Strbak turns pro after his season ends at MSU, gets his feet wet in Rochester and then truly competes for a job next year with Komarov and Clifton.

 

[Jim Bob]

My hope is that Strbak turns pro after his season ends at MSU, gets his feet wet in Rochester and then truly competes for a job next year with Komarov and Clifton.

I think Strbak will need more time than that in Rochester to be NHL-ready.

 

[Zman5778]

I think Strbak will need more time than that in Rochester to be NHL-ready.

We'll see. I keep seeing a right-handed Samuelsson with him......and it sure seemed like Sammy was just about ready the year after he left WMU.

 

[BFLO]

You are still on this strawman?

Listen. I have repeatedly ignored your arguments and tried to avoid debating them with you because your arguments are all just semantics of a tangent that was totally irrelevant to my post.

Example - The Hronek issue you keep bringing up. Hronek was a nearly identical acquisition to Byram. Both young D with similar junior careers, and similar upside at the time of the trade, and if the question was put to a poll on the main boards, who was better at the time of the Hronek trade, it would most definitely come back as Byram. Your argument that they are different because Mitts was traded for Byram and Hronek for futures is completely false. The Canucks trade their 31 goal and 54 point in 49 games captain and "better than Mitts" center named Bo Horvat for the Isles pick which Allvin then flipped for Hronek.

Thank you for finally responding to my original post about Hronek.

You raise a fair point that the pick used to acquire Hronek was from the Horvat trade. I completely forgot about that. I concede the point about us paying more for Byram. You're right. (see how easy that was?)

But despite these being facts, they are totally irrelevant to the discussion I was having with Doak about the offseason. Had i written coaching system instead of coach, I guess that may have satisfied your requirements for my example to not be pedantically scrutinized?

Coach vs Coaching system doesn't work. I don't buy that Tocceht didn't install at least part of his system right away, if not fully. Timeline would have been the same.

You would have needed to have said something like: "Look at the Canucks last offseason, they added solid bottom six talent".

Instead of what you actually said which was: "Look at the Canucks last year. They changed their coach, and added solid bottom six talent".

Can you still not admit that Hronek fits neatly into that sentence? IE: "Look at the Canucks last year. They changed their coach, traded for Hronek and added solid bottom six talent"

And like I said before, worrying about handedness for D is only a problem if you dont have the horses that can play on their offhand. Ray Bourque played on his offhand more often than not. As did Bobby Orr. Dahlin and Sammy both may be better on their offhands, and many other star defensemen spent half their careers playing their offhand side, Pronger comes to mind off the top of my head.

I agree about handedness not being super important, as long as the players can play to their offhands. Which Dahlin and Sammy can do. But what about the 3rd pair? Can Clifton or Joker play the left side? they seem to struggle enough on the right

As for balance, Dahlin and Byram on PP1 and Power and a forward on PP2 , with Sammy, Clifton on PK1 and Dahlin and Joker on PK2 may work, but Ruff has several options and everything may be turned upside down once his schemes are introduced and different players may show chemistry with other partners that we have yet to see - that is what camp is for.

You're dancing around it a bit. Hoping we can sort things out in camp, or that ruffs scheme will fix it is kind of a tacit admission that the defense is poorly balanced. And depending on Sammy to stay healthy is not a plan, it's the opposite of one.

I think we still have the same hole in the defense that we had before the Byram trade. Which is why I originally brought up Hronek. Byram hasn't plugged a hole for us the same way Hronek did for the Canucks. Byram and Hronek are similar players, but these two teams had different holes in their defenses.


At the end of the day I am a Sabres fan. I hope Kevyn Adams, the roster and all of the overly positive homers posting here prove me wrong when the Sabres have a great season this year. I've hoped that for the last 4 seasons prior to this one too.

 

[DJN21]

Thank you for finally responding to my original post about Hronek.

You raise a fair point that the pick used to acquire Hronek was from the Horvat trade. I completely forgot about that. I concede the point about us paying more for Byram. You're right. (see how easy that was?)

Coach vs Coaching system doesn't work. I don't buy that Tocceht didn't install at least part of his system right away, if not fully. Timeline would have been the same.

You would have needed to have said something like: "Look at the Canucks last offseason, they added solid bottom six talent".

Instead of what you actually said which was: "Look at the Canucks last year. They changed their coach, and added solid bottom six talent".

Can you still not admit that Hronek fits neatly into that sentence? IE: "Look at the Canucks last year. They changed their coach, traded for Hronek and added solid bottom six talent"


I agree about handedness not being super important, as long as the players can play to their offhands. Which Dahlin and Sammy can do. But what about the 3rd pair? Can Clifton or Joker play the left side? they seem to struggle enough on the right

You're dancing around it a bit. Hoping we can sort things out in camp, or that ruffs scheme will fix it is kind of a tacit admission that the defense is poorly balanced. And depending on Sammy to stay healthy is not a plan, it's the opposite of one.

I think we still have the same hole in the defense that we had before the Byram trade. Which is why I originally brought up Hronek. Byram hasn't plugged a hole for us the same way Hronek did for the Canucks. Byram and Hronek are similar players, but these two teams had different holes in their defenses.


At the end of the day I am a Sabres fan. I hope Kevyn Adams, the roster and all of the overly positive homers posting here prove me wrong when the Sabres have a great season this year. I've hoped that for the last 4 seasons prior to this one too.

STAWWWWWWWPPPP

literally no one else cares about your argument. Take it to PM