The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Jim Bob]

I understand that. Again I don't have any issues with these signings. I was bringing it up in context of the discussion about an internal cap. The fact is currently Power is not earning that contract, we all hope he does but it is a gamble. Take a look at the thread on Thompson's contract when it was signed, many were very worried it was a massive overpay.

But I will admit, early on in Adams tenure after he signed Hall and I believe a couple of other players, I decided he was overpaying on contracts. Research suggests that first impression can often persist even when faced with legitimate, contrary evidence. I try to be aware of that but it is easier said then done. I also try to be mindful of that when people keep banging the same drum over and over on these boards even in the face of contradictory evidence (I am not referencing any specific poster or thread here, just in general).

Kneejerk immediate impressions of a contract is a very poor way to evaluate if it was an overpay or not.

 

[Chainshot]

Wasn't it Levi and Kulich for Reinhart?

Yes, the pick was used on Kulich.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Wasn't it Levi and Kulich for Reinhart?

Ah. I always getit confused. Makes it look a bit better.

 

[elchud]

Crazy idea but...Laine?

It's the 2nd year that's the problem and a big problem at that.

I dont think he can be traded as long as he is in the assistance program but if we're off to a slow start that's a possible play.

 

[Jim Bob]

Crazy idea but...Laine?

It's the 2nd year that's the problem and a big problem at that.

I dont think he can be traded as long as he is in the assistance program but if we're off to a slow start that's a possible play.

He can be traded. But, no teams, Columbus included, can talk to him while he's in the program.

And every GM that has called on Laine wants to talk to him before trading for him.

So, he's not getting dealt for a while.

And he's a hard pass for me. He's as much of a fit with Lindy as Skinner would have been.

 

[michaelsaas]

Kneejerk immediate impressions of a contract is a very poor way to evaluate if it was an overpay or not.

Yes. I would feel similarly to anyone else who was doing that. I have not been doing that, if you are talking about any of our big name, young players. So we are in agreement.

 

[sabremike]

They didn't need to rebuild though, they had a solid core in place already. Adams simply had to sell them on a quick retool. But the knock down drag out fight with Eichel about his surgery, a rebuild was the only option they had left.

The Eichel situation required an owner who was level headed and capable of puting emotions aside to make the best of it. Instead we had Terry, a blundering fool with a vindictive streak against anyone he perceives as having wronged him. And that's not to say he shouldn't have felt anger towards Jack for how he acted (we all did) but in the end how that was handled is going to be a crippling millstone around the neck of this franchise as long as Terry owns us.

 

[Jim Bob]

Yes. I would feel similarly to anyone else who was doing that. I have not been doing that, if you are talking about any of our big name, young players. So we are in agreement.

You literally just pointed to the initial feelings on the Thompson contract in the post I was replying to.

-$0.5M surplus value in an injury riddled season.

That is not bad.

And Dahlin had $3.5M in surplus value in the last year of his bridge deal.

 

[StrompTroller]

The Eichel situation required an owner who was level headed and capable of puting emotions aside to make the best of it. Instead we had Terry, a blundering fool with a vindictive streak against anyone he perceives as having wronged him. And that's not to say he shouldn't have felt anger towards Jack for how he acted (we all did) but in the end how that was handled is going to be a crippling millstone around the neck of this franchise as long as Terry owns us.

I will never understand this stance.

Facts:

No hockey player has ever had that surgery and recovered to play (let alone be the pillar of the organization)

Insurance wasn't going to cover Jack's new contract if it was against team doctors orders so Terry would be paying full price for a broken necked wash out.

The TEAM doctors recommended alternatives aka were against it. Yeah we pay them for a reason. It's because they are smarter than us....


Jack wanted out and he got it. The rest is just babbling about it and misremembering history. Why are we still talking about this?

 

[Irie]

You dont have a monopoly if the consumer can choose to not go there. Monopoly occurs when you have a mandatory item that most of the public needs tu o have.

But Hockey absolutely is a mandatory item for some of us

 

[sabremike]

I will never understand this stance.

Facts:

No hockey player has ever had that surgery and recovered to play (let alone be the pillar of the organization)

Insurance wasn't going to cover Jack's new contract if it was against team doctors orders so Terry would be paying full price for a broken necked wash out.

The TEAM doctors recommended alternatives aka were against it. Yeah we pay them for a reason. It's because they are smarter than us....


Jack wanted out and he got it. The rest is just babbling about it and misremembering history. Why are we still talking about this?

The cost of that worst case scenario would've been a pittance compared to the cost of being the NHL version of Siberia we will be until Terry is gone. We are still talking about it because we are living with the dire consequences of that decision (like not being able to acquire a top 6 forward because players around the league hate this entire organization and hold it in contempt).

 

[zenthusiast]

I think there’s room for both “eichel was being unreasonable and ownership/management acted circumspectly” and “not allowing eichel to get his surgery negatively impacted the Sabres in the view of players and their representation” to be true

 

[StrompTroller]

I think there’s room for both “eichel was being unreasonable and ownership/management acted circumspectly” and “not allowing eichel to get his surgery negatively impacted the Sabres in the view of players and their representation” to be true

"room" is what we are discussing. We all agree on that. Now what

 

[zenthusiast]

"room" is what we are discussing. We all agree on that. Now what

Well, we already got a room

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I'm going to save this post for use in a couple of years - I'm sure it is going to age badly.

It actually doesn't matter when you realize that we aren't spending to the cap anyway. I only care about overpays when we're a competitive team who uses all of their cap space -- and this offseason I'm waking up to the reality that Buffalo is not that.

 

[Matt Ress]

who cares what you find boring? Most people just move along and stop reading when they’re bored - no one cares what you think about the content on here.

What a boring thing to say

 

[StrompTroller]

Well, we already got a room

so I take off my pants first or you?

 

[BFLO]

Do you think that Reinhart would have signed a long-term contract knowing Jack had already asked out? He was close enough to UFA to walk himself out the door. Same with Ullmark. They gave Eichel the bag, and he forced his way out. They didn't want to be there. Bridges were on fire the day Adams walked in (and the abrupt changes with COVID didn't help).

A big contributor to the team finishing 31st that year was that everyone in that "core" had one foot out the door.

Adams has not shown any hesitation signing players he likes to term on big contracts (Tage, Cozens, Sammy, Dahlin, Power). But they all wanted to sign. I can't tell you what happened during conversations with Reinhart and Ullmark, but I see no course of action that would have kept those players here.

I could be wrong. If someone could conduct a master class here on how to convince a twenty-five year old millionaire to sign a long-term contract when the big sell was "stick around for a few years while we suck and we can cut the rebuild time from five years to four".

I just don't have that kind of imagination.

Yes. Reinhart absolutely would have signed long term here in 2020.

Straight from the horses mouth. October 30th 2020. 5 days after signing the 1 year bridge deal from Adams:

“I think every player in the times right now would be open to a long-term deal. Unfortunately that’s not always the case and that’s not always available so I’m certainly comfortable playing on short-term deals like this, I always have so this is just another one,” Reinhart said.

“I think I’ve done a lot that I want to be recognized for and be here long term for sure, there’s no question about it."

https://www.wivb.com/sports/sabres-forward-sam-reinhart-feels-comfortable-signing-a-short-term-deal-but-wants-to-be-here-long-term/

 

[Chainshot]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1813644492924444873

An argument can be made that JD is a better player than Krebs. I'm curious if Krebs comes in near this.

 

[sabremike]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1813644492924444873

An argument can be made that JD is a better player than Krebs. I'm curious if Krebs comes in near this.

I don't think it's an argument, he is.

 

[Sabreality]

I don't think it's an argument, he is.

Sure it is, Jacks a year older, but has played in 100 fewer NHL games, he's just had more proper development with AHL time in a better situation/organization.

.32 v .30 ppg

I know hating on our whipping boy vs lauding other teams shinier toys is the way around here, but I don't think either players story has been written yet and the difference in a vacuum is probably pretty close, hence how their contracts may end up in the same ballpark.

 

[michaelsaas]

You literally just pointed to the initial feelings on the Thompson contract in the post I was replying to.

View attachment 895517
-$0.5M surplus value in an injury riddled season.

That is not bad.

And Dahlin had $3.5M in surplus value in the last year of his bridge deal.

Perhaps I miscommunicated. I looked over my post and I felt what I was saying is that in the past I have had an initial reaction that we overpaid players such as with Hall and other players hired around the same time. I then referenced the Thompson signing thread to see how other people responded then as further examples of how people react. I don't think I posted in that thread.

If you look at responses across the board to the signing when it occurred I don't think I'd be telling tales out of school to state that many were skeptical. Here is a Reddit post from that time that demonstrates that - (I only chose it cuz it was the quickest to find, I didn't post in that thread either.)

If you are asking about what my reaction was to the Thompson contract when it was signed. I am happy to tell you. I thought it was a gamble but one that I was optimistic would pay off. I felt even if he regressed a little it wouldn't be a poor value contract. But there was a risk it could have been a total disaster if that previous season was a fluke (I didn't think it was). I am pessimistic in general though so there will always be a part of me that thinks any great player on our team could suddenly take a nosedive.

No one has ever asked me my thoughts on any of the Sabres moves in general, and I rarely take the initiative to post them myself because I assume no one cares but I am more than happy to give my takes on any moves you want to ask me about. I obviously love the team and in my area I NEVER get to talk about them so be my guest .


edited to clarify - I do feel we overpay by 1-2 million on our players but I recognize on younger players that is a gamble that when it pays off works massively to our advantage. Thompson is the ideal example of that. We hope Power and Cozens will become that too. As much as I like Cobra, I am not sure he is worth his contract (due to frequency of injury).

 

[Jim Bob]

Perhaps I miscommunicated. I looked over my post and I felt what I was saying is that in the past I have had an initial reaction that we overpaid players such as with Hall and other players hired around the same time. I then referenced the Thompson signing thread to see how other people responded then as further examples of how people react. I don't think I posted in that thread.

If you look at responses across the board to the signing when it occurred I don't think I'd be telling tales out of school to state that many were skeptical. Here is a Reddit post from that time that demonstrates that - (I only chose it cuz it was the quickest to find, I didn't post in that thread either.)

If you are asking about what my reaction was to the Thompson contract when it was signed. I am happy to tell you. I thought it was a gamble but one that I was optimistic would pay off. I felt even if he regressed a little it wouldn't be a poor value contract. But there was a risk it could have been a total disaster if that previous season was a fluke (I didn't think it was). I am pessimistic in general though so there will always be a part of me that thinks any great player on our team could suddenly take a nosedive.

No one has ever asked me my thoughts on any of the Sabres moves in general, and I rarely take the initiative to post them myself because I assume no one cares but I am more than happy to give my takes on any moves you want to ask me about. I obviously love the team and in my area I NEVER get to talk about them so be my guest .


edited to clarify - I do feel we overpay by 1-2 million on our players but I recognize on younger players that is a gamble that when it pays off works massively to our advantage. Thompson is the ideal example of that. We hope Power and Cozens will become that too. As much as I like Cobra, I am not sure he is worth his contract (due to frequency of injury).

https://x.com/i/web/status/1313640925055389699

I could not care less about random hot takes when contracts are signed.

 

[Zman5778]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1813644492924444873

An argument can be made that JD is a better player than Krebs. I'm curious if Krebs comes in near this.

I've been expecting ~$1.5M on a 1 or 2 year deal........so Drury's deal seems to be right in line with that expectation.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

People are sure Reinhart wanted a long term deal here because it's what he told the media. Adams has never disputed it.

According to Reinhart we never offered him a long term deal. Which Adams has also never disputed.

Reinhart signed for 1 year of RFA and 2 UFA with florida.

Then why didn’t he sign long term right away with Florida?