The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Jacob582]

I always thought Reino took short contracts to bet on himself. Even with Florida he didn't resign until this monster season.

I always thought he was forced to take short term contracts because his teams were waiting to see consistent effort.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Ullmark literally had an interview article last year mentioning that he left Buffalo due to his father’s death. He wanted a new place to be as a whole. Buffalo offered to match his offer from Boston. And sorry, he wasn’t worth 6.5 to 7 mil a year. Though I doubt it would of made any difference to Linus.

You seem to feel that if Reinhart was offered 7x6mil and he wanted 7x9mil or he’d walk that we should of just caved and gave him what he wanted because “we had space at the time” That’s the short sighted management teams like Toronto ran into in a hurry. Plus it sets a precedent that future RFAs will use.

You are a hammer in need of a nail and the one you found is the team is cheap and you endlessly hammer away at it. Were they cheap when they signed Skinner to an absurd contract? Just because the Sabres don’t throw silly money at UFAs doesn’t make them a cheap team.

You're making up numbers for both those guys to try and discredit me opinion. Skinner was signed just prior to covid and the "efficient" mantra took over the organization. You know I've posted before about how it's Pegula's team and he can do what he wants. The cheap factor isn't an end-all be-all thing for me. I just don't have a problem acknowledging it. I don't get defensive when other hockey fans ask/tell me about it. For others it's a problem.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

All of the bolded.

This has been a weird offseason. A revamped bottom 6 is fantastic. Most people even the curmudgeons on here agree.

Some wanted more or better and not spending like a drunken sailor and are told they are wrong.

One page later are clamoring for a top 4rhd or top 6 forward.

If we busted our load on mcleod where are we conjuring this top 6 forward or top 4 dman from lol? The trades we made were dumb. Flat out even if the players are quality. I admit they are. Now we sit here wanting more? People are talking about trading for Brady lol? Thats gonna cost Petera and 4x 1sts at the Adamas rate.

I hated Murray and never want to see a Sabres GM blast through picks/prospects for flawed vets just to look like you're trying. Of all teams Buffalo is one that should try harder at the draft/development route. But after years of failed rebuilds and poor management and a cycle of mediocrity, you can only wait so long for prospects, and only have so much room for them if they hit. BUT...if/when they hit...my god by all means try to keep them. When you can't get anywhere in the UFA market and are getting raked over in trade talks, keep your best guys FCS.

KA got himself into a phase of needing to make moves and got proportionately hurt in trade value. This is about the best he could do this summer and we should expect that he's done aside from RFA contracts. The message should be - don't corner yourself into poor value trades. Let's hope he doesn't do the same dumb things with UPL as he did with Reinhart or Ullmark.

 

[Sabre Dance]

I always thought Reino took short contracts to bet on himself. Even with Florida he didn't resign until this monster season.

I can’t believe Reinhart turns 29 this season.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

This is boring to me

who cares what you find boring? Most people just move along and stop reading when they’re bored - no one cares what you think about the content on here.

 

[KeepKane]

With the way the game is going, I'm not sure that a team truly needs a balanced pair anymore. Nashville got away with Subban, Josi, and Ellis in their top 4 with just Ekhlom as the defensive anchor, and they did just fine. At some point, the pressure the possession places on another team by having that many top defenseman outweighs the need for the typical and traditional balance team got out of pairs. So I'm not worried about Dahlin, Power, and Byram.

I don't really think Samuelsson should be in the top 4 with the game he's being asked to play. I'd much rather see him in a defensive pair with Clifton and just asked to start in the defensive zone and play against top lines. When a defender covers for his partner, his responsibilities are so much greater than just being a partner in a shutdown pair. Lots of 2 on 1s, lots of movement required. Gone are the days when a guy like Hal Gill could just stay in the slot and cover. The stay back defender has to be more like a Pysyk or Tallinder, where they've got some physicality but are much more adept at stopping plays with skating, positioning, and an active stick.

I'd rather see Ryan Johnson in the top 4 as the stay back defender, and then have Samuelsson and Clifton do the heavy defensive lifting. And if I'm truly getting what I'd like, Clifton would move on and Adams would get a player like Fabbro. That's allow Ruff to form a shutdown pair with Samuelsson and Fabbro. Or, if he wanted to shift in the playoffs, balance it between shutdown and movement defender.

And I'm always down for 8 defenders on the roster. My 2006 playoffs scar tissue is real. Bryson and Gilbert are basically spares for a movement and shutdown defender.

Exactly. Ryan Johnson will be up and in a top 4 pairing if Joker is moved out or by Game 20 and Joker is in press box. Some depth isn't a bad thing tho. We will have injuries so having 9 guys you can play is better than 7/8. The D pairs I posted a few weeks ago were as follows: Sammy& Clifton can take the D zone draws/matchups/PK duties.

Power- Dahlin
Byram-Johnson(Joker)
Sammy-Clifton

Gilbert/Bryson

If we do add a top 6 forward, Greenway to 4th line and NAK to 13th forward. Injuries will happen, I'd rather have NAK and Krebs outside top 12 playing 50/60 games than counting on Rousek/Kulich/Rosen/Murray to give you those games. Depth & competition is a good thing.

top 6 add-TT-Tuch
Peterka-Cozens-Quinn
Benson-McCleod-Zucker
Malenstyn-Lafferty-Greenway

xNAK,Krebs, Rousek,Kulich

 

[MOGlLNY]

A lot of posters getting extremely aggressive in the doldrums of the offseason

 

[Djp]

When you have a monopoly on the sport in the region, then you don't need loyalty.

The Buffalo News and Sabres are both monopolies...you don't need to be good at business to stay afloat with a monopoly.

You dont have a monopoly if the consumer can choose to not go there. Monopoly occurs when you have a mandatory item that most of the public needs tu o have.

So because they didn't want to pay Mitts 7mil; the only possible reason is that they want to be cheap?

There couldn't be any other possible reason

1. Maybe they wanted Byram more
2. Maybe they didn't want their 3C making 7 mil or shift Cozens to the wing making him a 7mil winger
3. Maybe they wanted to go a different direction and deemed Mitts too slow
4. Maybe they just didn't like the cut of his jib

Right or wrong, there are plenty of reasons they could of had completely independent of "Pegula scared of spending"

Reinhart was bridged by Botts first and then they went into COVID, if there was a perfect storm of cash flow shortages and a lack of desire to sign anyone to a significant contract there it was.

Ullmark wanted to reset his life after his father died; no money would of changed that.

Paying a 3C $7M+ is a poor salary structure

If you allocate about 52M for F...
Top 6 avg $6m per hit
Bottom 4F total $5M
Thst leave for 4F for $11M. Onr if those F is a 3C. You pay 7M you will hurt team elsewhere

I hated Murray and never want to see a Sabres GM blast through picks/prospects for flawed vets just to look like you're trying. Of all teams Buffalo is one that should try harder at the draft/development route. But after years of failed rebuilds and poor management and a cycle of mediocrity, you can only wait so long for prospects, and only have so much room for them if they hit. BUT...if/when they hit...my god by all means try to keep them. When you can't get anywhere in the UFA market and are getting raked over in trade talks, keep your best guys FCS.

KA got himself into a phase of needing to make moves and got proportionately hurt in trade value. This is about the best he could do this summer and we should expect that he's done aside from RFA contracts. The message should be - don't corner yourself into poor value trades. Let's hope he doesn't do the same dumb things with UPL as he did with Reinhart or Ullmark.

TM was hurt because he didmt have prior chios.

TM period

2012'-2015 rebuild iij ng drsft
2008-2012 some trade chips, some you keep
2004-2007 some vets and trade chips

Adams...

2021-2004
2017-2020
2013-2016.

TM and Dzr traded the players from 2004-2007 and before for rebuilding. KS dud Dane with 2012'2015.

The bid difference is in the middle ln e frame eherr 2008-2011 drafts and talent ho traded aesy. KA for this period of 2017-2020 has much more pieces that can be traded.

The other both traded things to target what they wanted. Adams has mire toys

 

[Mattilaus]

A lot of posters getting extremely aggressive in the doldrums of the offseason

13 seasons will make people irritable.

 

[michaelsaas]

I think when you have a choice to re-sign RFAs at fair deals or even slightly above, at positions of need, and choose not to even when you have the cap space for now and the foreseeable future, that is a strong indicator of operating on the cheap. Whether someone characterizes it as an internal budget or not doesn't matter, when the bottom line is that the organization chooses to spend less at the expense of the on-ice product.

Then why do they always overpay on their internal contracts?

 

[BFLO]

We didn’t sign Reinhart because he didn’t want to be here long term after Botterill tried to bridge him twice. Not much else to see here.

No. This is factually incorrect. Botterill bridged him once, the 2018-2020 contract, and Adams bridged him once, the 2020-2021 contract.

So you have Adams to thank for losing Reinhart by bridging him a second time, not Botts.

 

[Der Jaeger]

A lot of posters getting extremely aggressive in the doldrums of the offseason

F&ck you!

(Did I do that right?)

 

[michaelsaas]

You dont have a monopoly if the consumer can choose to not go there. Monopoly occurs when you have a mandatory item that most of the public needs tu o have.




Paying a 3C $7M+ is a poor salary structure

If you allocate about 52M for F...
Top 6 avg $6m per hit
Bottom 4F total $5M
Thst leave for 4F for $11M. Onr if those F is a 3C. You pay 7M you will hurt team elsewhere




TM was hurt because he didmt have prior chios.

TM period

2012'-2015 rebuild iij ng drsft
2008-2012 some trade chips, some you keep
2004-2007 some vets and trade chips

Adams...

2021-2004
2017-2020
2013-2016.

TM and Dzr traded the players from 2004-2007 and before for rebuilding. KS dud Dane with 2012'2015.

The bid difference is in the middle ln e frame eherr 2008-2011 drafts and talent ho traded aesy. KA for this period of 2017-2020 has much more pieces that can be traded.

The other both traded things to target what they wanted. Adams has mire toys

What?

 

[Jim Bob]

Then why do they always overpay on their internal contracts?

That is so not the case. Bryson most certainly isn't overpaid this offseason after the Sabres did not extend him his QO.

And Tage is not overpaid, either.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

You dont have a monopoly if the consumer can choose to not go there. Monopoly occurs when you have a mandatory item that most of the public needs to o have.

That's actually not what it means. You're 100% wrong, and making shit up without even checking, which wouldn't be difficult at all.

 

[MOGlLNY]

No. This is factually incorrect. Botterill bridged him once, the 2018-2020 contract, and Adams bridged him once, the 2020-2021 contract.

So you have Adams to thank for losing Reinhart by bridging him a second time, not Botts.

 

[thewookie1]

You dont have a monopoly if the consumer can choose to not go there. Monopoly occurs when you have a mandatory item that most of the public needs tu o have.

That isn't technically correct

the definition is:
the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service

Anything can be monopolized as long as it has a supply and demand. If you are the sole owner of the method of making red box fans and no one can replicate it, you hold a monopoly on red box fans. Now it is possible to buy any other color fan or alternatives to red box fans however if you insist on a red box fan, you hold total control over the market.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

That is so not the case. Bryson most certainly isn't overpaid this offseason after the Sabres did not extend him his QO.

And Tage is not overpaid, either.

Define overpay. There are many ways to lower the cap hit on a contract by a few hundred thousand. Buffalo is very reluctant to front-load contracts and pays limited bonus dollars. A front-loaded is worth more to the player in real dollars. A bonus contract with massive payments on July 1 is also worth more and has the added value of being way more buyout-proof. We will pay slightly more in cap hits because of this but you need deep pockets to pay Austin Matthews a $16 Million bonus on July 1. It's a bit insane Leafs did that but it's a loophole in cap.

The Tage Thompson contract was not a steal at the time, but it looks good in the mirror. Credit to management. You take swings on long-term deals, if you are Buffalo.

Unforgivable are the contracts not remotely connected to reality like Skinner's $9 x 8 years. Jost's $2 M. Okposo's $2.5 M. Zucker's $5 million feels that way.

 

[BFLO]

We paid Tage and Cozens and Sammy and Power well before we had to. We should have the long-term room to extend one or two of Peterka, Quinn, Benson, Byram should we choose to.

Yes, I get that we didn't sign Reinhart or Mitts. Reinhart, who knows why. But I think it's become obvious that Mitts just did not fit the team that Adams wants/wanted to build going forward.

There's a LOT to criticize Adams for......not signing RFAs isn't one of them.

Losing Reinhart, Ullmark and Mitts is reason enough to criticize Adams, but then we add in the big RFA contracts he did give out to Power, Tage, Cozens and Samulesson?

How is all of that not reason to criticize Adams?

The 4 rfa contracts could still turn out to be steals later on, but we can't count our chickens before they hatch. There's no guarantee they will be good contracts a few years down the road and aside from Tage they've gotten off to a rocky start.

Everyone points to the Draisatil contract as what they expect all 4 of these contracts to be. But the thing they forget with Drai is that his contract was a steal beginning in year 2. Tage, Cozens and Sammy are all entering year 2 this season.

 

[Jim Bob]

Define overpay. There are many ways to lower the cap hit on a contract by a few hundred thousand. Buffalo is very reluctant to front-load contracts and pays limited bonus dollars. A front-loaded is worth more to the player in real dollars. A bonus contract with massive payments on July 1 is also worth more and has the added value of being way more buyout-proof. We will pay slightly more in cap hits because of this but you need deep pockets to pay Austin Matthews a $16 Million bonus on July 1. It's a bit insane Leafs did that but it's a loophole in cap.

The Tage Thompson contract was not a steal at the time, but it looks good in the mirror. Credit to management. You take swings on long-term deals, if you are Buffalo.

Unforgivable are the contracts not remotely connected to reality like Skinner's $9 x 8 years. Jost's $2 M. Okposo's $2.5 M. Zucker's $5 million feels that way.

Zucker was not an "internal contract" and certainly included a loser tax to get him to sign in Buffalo.

The post I was replying to was about always overpaying guys they re-sign.

There are some guys they have overpaid to retain. And mainly the vets on short deals in the cap floor era where it didn't really matter that they overpaid guys like Jost, Okposo, and Girgensons.

And they have to overpay guys with options to get them to sign because they have been so bad for so long. That's just the nature of things.

 

[Zman5778]

Losing Reinhart, Ullmark and Mitts is reason enough to criticize Adams, but then we add in the big RFA contracts he did give out to Power, Tage, Cozens and Samulesson?

How is all of that not reason to criticize Adams?

I think you misread/misinterpreted something I said.

I was responding to the notion that Adams deserves criticism for operating "on the cheap" because he hasn't re-signed RFAs to "fair deals or slightly above" ......when really the only 2 he didn't lock up long-term were Reinhart and Mitts. I personally don't count Ullmark because he's said in multiple interviews that he wasn't re-upping long term with us. Ullmark wanted to get out of Buffalo for personal reasons.

I then pointed out that he has, in fact, re-signed the vast majority of our RFas....many to long-term deals.

You can absolutely criticize Adams for not re-signing Reinhart (or Mitts, I suppose). You can criticize him for maybe paying Power too early. But saying that he's operating "on the cheap" because he didn't sign Reinhart and Mitts is what I was/am pushing back against.

 

[Diaspora]

I think you misread/misinterpreted something I said.

I was responding to the notion that Adams deserves criticism for operating "on the cheap" because he hasn't re-signed RFAs to "fair deals or slightly above" ......when really the only 2 he didn't lock up long-term were Reinhart and Mitts. I personally don't count Ullmark because he's said in multiple interviews that he wasn't re-upping long term with us. Ullmark wanted to get out of Buffalo for personal reasons.

I then pointed out that he has, in fact, re-signed the vast majority of our RFas....many to long-term deals.

You can absolutely criticize Adams for not re-signing Reinhart (or Mitts, I suppose). You can criticize him for maybe paying Power too early. But saying that he's operating "on the cheap" because he didn't sign Reinhart and Mitts is what I was/am pushing back against.

Reinhart said that he didn't want to be part of another rebuild. Criticism of Adams over how that turned out seems to be poorly aimed.

Botteril's inability to build a team (or hire a coach) that could finish outside the bottom ten over several years of trying are what drove Eichel, Reinhart and Ullmark out of town. There was little, if anything, that Adams could have done to change that outcome. Any other read of it just doesn't make sense.

 

[Jim Bob]

Reinhart said that he didn't want to be part of another rebuild. Criticism of Adams over how that turned out seems to be poorly aimed.

Botteril's inability to build a team (or hire a coach) that could finish outside the bottom ten over several years of trying are what drove Eichel, Reinhart and Ullmark out of town. There was little, if anything, that Adams could have done to change that outcome. Any other read of it just doesn't make sense.

That comment by Reinhart was when he was an RFA for a second time and just prior to the trade to Florida and not around the time that Adams signed him to a one year deal as opposed to a long term extension.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Zucker was not an "internal contract" and certainly included a loser tax to get him to sign in Buffalo.

The post I was replying to was about always overpaying guys they re-sign.

There are some guys they have overpaid to retain. And mainly the vets on short deals in the cap floor era where it didn't really matter that they overpaid guys like Jost, Okposo, and Girgensons.

And they have to overpay guys with options to get them to sign because they have been so bad for so long. That's just the nature of things.

It's all just poor excuses by bad management, in my opinion. The sabres miss by just a bit on many contracts, and it all adds up. I'm just tired of the excuses. Move the team or sell it. Enough excuses. It's not that hard to make the playoffs in a league where half the teams make it.

(PS. If you can come up with who Buffalo was bidding against to get Skinner, that's the Cadbury secret.)

 

[Jim Bob]

It's all just poor excuses by bad management, in my opinion. The sabres miss by just a bit on many contracts, and it all adds up. I'm just tired of the excuses. Move the team or sell it. Enough excuses. It's not that hard to make the playoffs in a league where half the teams make it.

It doesn't add up to much when they are so far below the salary cap that it literally doesn't matter.