The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Jim Bob]

Adams is handcuffed by the organization he is a part of. Pretending he can just go out and sign and trade for whomever is naive.

We are likely to be the last ones at the trough. We don't need to sign more Erik Johnsons, but we need to sign some players and the players available for us will likely not be the premium ones available for everyone else.

I am not naive enough to think that he can sign anyone he wants to a wonderful contract.

And of course, there are plenty of players that other GMs will be unwilling to trade away.

But, there are quality players without trade protection (or might waive to play for Ruff) that should be available in trade.

2024 Offseason Trade Board | Sabres Edition

The Stanley Cup has been awarded and it's time for the NHL offseason to hit the ground running. The Sabres should be busy this summer.

www.expectedbuffalo.com

There are 15 players on this list. I would not be upset if Adams traded for 9 of them.

He has as much trade ammo as almost any GM in the league. There are no excuses for Adams to make smart moves this off season.

 

[Zman5778]

Several of the public space bloggers have said Zegras doesn't mesh with what Verbeek wants as a player - he's not been in shape, is not committed on the ice. Might he change? Sure. Right now he seems like a rotten fruit.

Strangely, if Granato was still our HC...I'd be much more amenable/on board with trading for Zegras. While Lindy isn't poor with prospects/kids, Donnie sure seemed to get the most out of a bunch of our kids. And given Donnie's allergy to coaching defense/physicality.....that's right in Zegras' wheelhouse.

Ultimately, I don't think he's what we want or need right now.

 

[Chainshot]

That's why he's so controversial. Although reading the Ducks board I'm not so sure.

I think it's stupid to deny his talent, but maybe he needs a change of scenery? Maybe this is the type of diamond we're looking for. It's just that if Adams really wants Zegras (let's assume), then I'm sure they have a plan. The guy has been scoring 60+ points on a tank team for several seasons in a row. He's a great playmaker, very creative, and will probably be good at PP. But you probably can't have both Skinner and Zegras on a team.As far as

I understand, Zegras can be either a center (where he still needs to work on that) or a wing. I think he could fit on a line with Cozens and Quinn, or play center, and on his wing could be Benson and Quinn or some physical shooter.

It seems like it doesn't fit, but at the same time it fits, that's the weird thing.

He's a guy who is playing mostly LW and isn't hard to play against right now. That the Ducks might want to try to recoup draft or perceived value is concerning for someone who thus far has seemed like empty calorie wing point generation without much dirty area play. He didn't develop into the pointy, hard to play against guy who was hinted at in the program. If the acquisition cost is relatively low AND they think they can get him to put in the work, maybe, but this isn't like Bennett going to Florida. Bennett was already a hard-ass and played like it prior to the deal unlike Zegras.

 

[Jim Bob]

While I do think that is how its laid out on paper, the problem under Adams has been...they haven't tried to do much if anything at all since the Eichel trade. His 'signature' move so for is 'Mittelstadt for Byram'. He's operated under almost zero pressure up until now. This is the first season he's said the goal is to win now.

Consider that:

1. We don't know whose decision it was to fire Granato and hire Lindy. It very well could have been imposed by the Pegulas. The rushed hire and lack of a real interview process supports that idea.

2. We don't know the dynamic between Ruff/Adams/Pegula. Previously, Ruff was often forced to players he didn't want to (Grigerenko/Zadorov in his last year come to mind). I can't imagine he was willing to come back without some measure of say in the roster. Whether that is merely a seat as a table as suggested or more.

There is plenty unknown about the dynamics at play here and questions about who is making the decisions are perfectly legitimate to wonder about.

I could get there if Adams did not have a prior working relationship with Lindy.

When a GM is under pressure, they tend to go with "their guys." Ruff was the one available experienced NHL head coach that was "his guy."

 

[Fjordy]

He's a guy who is playing mostly LW and isn't hard to play against right now. That the Ducks might want to try to recoup draft or perceived value is concerning for someone who thus far has seemed like empty calorie wing point generation without much dirty area play. He didn't develop into the pointy, hard to play against guy who was hinted at in the program. If the acquisition cost is relatively low AND they think they can get him to put in the work, maybe, but this isn't like Bennett going to Florida. Bennett was already a hard-ass and played like it prior to the deal unlike Zegras.

Even if he's a winger, it's not a problem for me. I'm sure if Adams does trade for Zegras, they know what to do and Lindy approved. It's not about Bennett, it's about finding a player that his team underestimated. Again, read the Ducks board, it's not all that clear-cut, and the press also seems to have made a monster out of Zegras.

 

[Chainshot]

Even if he's a winger, it's not a problem for me. I'm sure if Adams does trade for Zegras, they know what to do and Lindy approved. It's not about Bennett, it's about finding a player that his team underestimated. Again, read the Ducks board, it's not all that clear-cut, and the press also seems to have made a monster out of Zegras.

I was trying to think of a relatively high draftee who moved on from his original team and played well. Bennett was the first guy I thought about.

 

[Der Jaeger]

The point is that so many posters are wanting to paralyze KA because of cap implications 5 years from now, which is insane when we haven’t made the playoffs in 13 years.

I understand. Both extremes are wrong though. The opposite extreme is the Tim Murray approach.

And so many posters are wanting KA to make knee jerk moves because of the drought.

Preferring smart moves with the medium term in view should not be paralyzing.

Agreed. I also think smart long term decisions should be in play.

I didn’t say damn the cap. I said get the players. I didn’t say, “hand Ehlers a blank check,” I said, “I don’t care about future contracts.” Florida’s leading point getter and goal scorer played the entire season on an expiring contract and is now UFA. We’re twisting about sending a trade package for a top 6 forward because we’re afraid of his next contract. Always building for some imaginary future that never arrives.

You realize I'm the poster pounding the table for a Brady Tkachuk trade, right?

Here's an example of what winning now, the right way, and leaving yourself a future looks like.

(This isn't the only example, and it's just an example)

1. Kulich, Peterka, 2025 1st, 2025 2nd to Ottawa for Tkachuk (future for now, and a player who fills a huge need)

2. Jokiharju to Carolina for Kotkaniemi (fills a need right now)

3. Retain Savoie and Ostlund as the future of the center position.

4. Buyout Skinner

5. 2024 1st and Rosen for Zegras or Necas (futures for now, with the acquired player still having upside.

6. Sign middling free agents who fill a need for about $1M per position.

It's not perfect. Some of you will puke at it. But it's an example of how Adams could improve the current team for the 2024-25 season and maintain a strong farm system.

 

[toddkaz]

Several of the public space bloggers have said Zegras doesn't mesh with what Verbeek wants as a player - he's not been in shape, is not committed on the ice. Might he change? Sure. Right now he seems like a rotten fruit.

I read Zegras has been unwilling to play within the system and having a tough time on the defensive side of things

 

[Zman5778]

Even if he's a winger, it's not a problem for me. I'm sure if Adams does trade for Zegras, they know what to do and Lindy approved. It's not about Bennett, it's about finding a player that his team underestimated. Again, read the Ducks board, it's not all that clear-cut, and the press also seems to have made a monster out of Zegras.

Trading for Zegras would strike me exactly the same way that trading for Byram did: We're acquiring talent with no real thought given to building a complete team. Yes, Zegras is talented. But we've got PLENTY of talent (young talent at that) in our top 6. We need guys that are harder to play against. Zegras, while talented, ain't it.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Zegras is an interesting candidate. I have a hard time convincing myself he'd be a good fit, but if he's the top-6 add + they retool the bottom 6, then I'm fine with the acquisition. Again, it's not really about one move- it's about Adams overall vision for this offseason.

But man, Id much rather they ante up and try to pry a player like Crouse away from Utah. Of course, Zegras seems to be available while I doubt Crouse is.

I also wonder if it'd be wiser to save some of those assets and trade for a less expensive top-9 winger who goes to the hard areas and can be the worker bee on a top-6 line.

 

[Zman5778]

Zegras is an interesting candidate. I have a hard time convincing myself he'd be a good fit, but if he's the top-6 add + they retool the bottom 6, then I'm fine with the acquisition. Again, it's not really about one move- it's about Adams overall vision for this offseason.

But man, Id much rather they ante up and try to pry a player like Crouse away from Utah. Of course, Zegras seems to be available while I doubt Crouse is.

I also wonder if it'd be wiser to save some of those assets and trade for a less expensive top-9 winger who goes to the hard areas and can be the worker bee on a top-6 line.

I just posted this in the other thread: trading for Zegras would be trading for talent with no thought to team building. We need to get tougher to play against.....ideally a tougher-to-play against for the top 6 (or at least someone who's not out of place in the top 6). Zegras ain't it.

 

[zenthusiast]

Zegras is a luxury as a higher-end complementary player. If they acquire him with that role in mind, great, but there’s other important work to be done

 

[TehDoak]

I could get there if Adams did not have a prior working relationship with Lindy.

When a GM is under pressure, they tend to go with "their guys." Ruff was the one available experienced NHL head coach that was "his guy."

I think many narratives fit the facts here.

The "Adams went with his guy and his guy was Lindy" fits here.

However, "Terry has been texting Lindy for 2 months about this and then told Adams to fire Granato and hire Lindy" narrative also fits.

And to be frank, functionally, at least from an outsiders point of view, they are effectively the same. They did a rush hire on a coach they were familiar with.

The difference is, in one narrative, Adams and Lindy have a good collaborative relationship and will decide on the team together , and in another, there is a legit question of who actually is in charge of the roster.

I'm not sure we'll ever get a clear answer, though, if the Skinner buyout actually happens....

 

[Dubi Doo]

I just posted this in the other thread: trading for Zegras would be trading for talent with no thought to team building. We need to get tougher to play against.....ideally a tougher-to-play against for the top 6 (or at least someone who's not out of place in the top 6). Zegras ain't it.

Yeah. That's where Im at. I wouldn't mind another Greenway like addition (with a bit more offense) to play in the top-6. As you said, we have a few high potential wingers who may put up points in the near future. It'd be nice to get some guys who will go to war in the corners and front of the net to create space for them.

 

[Zman5778]

Yeah. That's where Im at. I wouldn't mind another Greenway like addition (with a bit more offense) to play in the top-6. As you said, we have a few high potential wingers who may put up points in the near future. It'd be nice to get some guys who will go to war in the corners and front of the net to create space for them.

Mangiapane is the first guy that popped into mind. Go get him from Calgary if we can. Hell, if Calgary is going for a complete rebuild -- go get Mangiapane AND Coleman.

That's how you make the middle 6 much tougher to play against.

 

[Gabrielor]

I think many narratives fit the facts here.

The "Adams went with his guy and his guy was Lindy" fits here.

However, "Terry has been texting Lindy for 2 months about this and then told Adams to fire Granato and hire Lindy" narrative also fits.

And to be frank, functionally, at least from an outsiders point of view, they are effectively the same. They did a rush hire on a coach they were familiar with.

The difference is, in one narrative, Adams and Lindy have a good collaborative relationship and will decide on the team together , and in another, there is a legit question of who actually is in charge of the roster.

I'm not sure we'll ever get a clear answer, though, if the Skinner buyout actually happens....

Isn't the latter also an argument against Cheap Pegula?

Ruff isn't coming back to win just to fed bullshit about economic efficiency.

 

[Chainshot]

Zegras is an interesting candidate. I have a hard time convincing myself he'd be a good fit, but if he's the top-6 add + they retool the bottom 6, then I'm fine with the acquisition. Again, it's not really about one move- it's about Adams overall vision for this offseason.

But man, Id much rather they ante up and try to pry a player like Crouse away from Utah. Of course, Zegras seems to be available while I doubt Crouse is.

I also wonder if it'd be wiser to save some of those assets and trade for a less expensive top-9 winger who goes to the hard areas and can be the worker bee on a top-6 line.

Utah is flush with draft picks and prospects. They have no reason to move Crouse even if he's someone who would be a great - perhaps even the best - fit in that mid-6 with size mold. Another would be Trent Frederic in Boston - versatile and productive at 5-on-5 and tougher than any forward the Sabres can throw over the boards. But again... no reason for the Bruins to make that move. Similarly, Mason Marchment would be a solid add in the mid-6... but he has a move clause list.

This is where having questions about the quality of their pro scouting comes into play. Marchment was a cast-off from the Leafs organization (so was Verhaeghe but different style). Joshua was someone toiling on the Blues farm team. Hell, we know AJ Greer was a punk and the Bruins valued that enough to pull him up to their NHL team before he went on to Calgary. It's finding the guys coming out of other team's scrap heap where they are likely to find someone who isn't both expensive to sign or expensive to acquire. Wish they had a track record there, but that's not been a strength in years.

 

[TehDoak]

Isn't the latter also an argument against Cheap Pegula?

Ruff isn't coming back to win just to fed bullshit about economic efficiency.

Well, spending this summer is going to dictate whether or not we are in the 3 E's era still.

A Skinner buyout and spending to the cap would obviously suggest The Cheap Pegulas are gone for the time being.

 

[Gabrielor]

Well, spending this summer is going to dictate whether or not we are in the 3 E's era still.

A Skinner buyout and spending to the cap would obviously suggest The Cheap Pegulas are gone for the time being.

The first can sadly happen still in the context of Cheapgula. Need #2 for true proof.

I almost hope Lindy has a lot of say just so that he can force some movement, because as built, this isn't a Lindy team yet.

 

[Jim Bob]

If you think buying out Skinner is a good idea, I have no idea why you would think that trading for Zegras is also a good idea.

 

[StrompTroller]

I have zero interest at all in zegras. Hes more or less exactly what savoie and kulich project to be.
Matter of fact all I see is a young Jeff Skinner. The same type of player we are up in arms with eachother about if we should pay him to NOT be on the team. Obviously there's a salary discrepancy between this comparison but still. Hes not the add that makes us better or harder to play against. And hes not a free agent add. Youd have to also trade valuable pieces to get him...

Im closer to supporting throwing the moon and stars at Brady than this zegras idea.

P.s cirelli is still the answer

 

[Diaspora]

While I do think that is how its laid out on paper, the problem under Adams has been...they haven't tried to do much if anything at all since the Eichel trade. His 'signature' move so for is 'Mittelstadt for Byram'. He's operated under almost zero pressure up until now. This is the first season he's said the goal is to win now.

Consider that:

1. We don't know whose decision it was to fire Granato and hire Lindy. It very well could have been imposed by the Pegulas. The rushed hire and lack of a real interview process supports that idea.

2. We don't know the dynamic between Ruff/Adams/Pegula. Previously, Ruff was often forced to players he didn't want to (Grigerenko/Zadorov in his last year come to mind). I can't imagine he was willing to come back without some measure of say in the roster. Whether that is merely a seat as a table as suggested or more.

There is plenty unknown about the dynamics at play here and questions about who is making the decisions are perfectly legitimate to wonder about.

We can all speculate. For as ugly and unstable a history this team has had of late, power struggles haven't been the sticking point.

Lindy didn't want to tank and McDavid was down the road in Erie.

GMTM was a lunatic and brought in guys that were a bad influence on tank-baby.

Botts went from full confidence to gone because he wouldn't fire unsuccessful people at the beginning of flu-mageddon (which people were predicting to be worse than the shit show it turned out to be).

Krueger wanted Adams to bring in Taylor Hall and embarrassed everybody, then lost the room while the whole team sulked and quit.

Granato ran a youth development team but couldn't create any sense of urgency to take the next step (ask Mitts and Ok). He also couldn't adjust once other coaches figured him out.

Consensus isn't necessarily a good thing. Leadership and vision is better. Lindy probably has more of that than Adams or Pegula. But there's different ways to lead, and like you say, we're not in the room.

 

[Jim Bob]

I think many narratives fit the facts here.

The "Adams went with his guy and his guy was Lindy" fits here.

However, "Terry has been texting Lindy for 2 months about this and then told Adams to fire Granato and hire Lindy" narrative also fits.

And to be frank, functionally, at least from an outsiders point of view, they are effectively the same. They did a rush hire on a coach they were familiar with.

The difference is, in one narrative, Adams and Lindy have a good collaborative relationship and will decide on the team together , and in another, there is a legit question of who actually is in charge of the roster.

I'm not sure we'll ever get a clear answer, though, if the Skinner buyout actually happens....

Adams has been a collaborative GM and makes decisions based on input from Forton and the scouts, Ventura and the analytics team, Karmanos and the head coach.

I doubt that changes with Lindy as the head coach.

 

[Dubi Doo]

If you think buying out Skinner is a good idea, I have no idea why you would think that trading for Zegras is also a good idea.

My hope would be he could turn into a similar player as W Nylander. Who had some similar chatter regarding work ethic and being soft, but man, he looks pretty good in the playoffs when I watch.

That would be my mind trying to justify the trade if it went down, anyway

 

[thewookie1]

I understand. Both extremes are wrong though. The opposite extreme is the Tim Murray approach.

Agreed. I also think smart long term decisions should be in play.

You realize I'm the poster pounding the table for a Brady Tkachuk trade, right?

Here's an example of what winning now, the right way, and leaving yourself a future looks like.

(This isn't the only example, and it's just an example)

1. Kulich, Peterka, 2025 1st, 2025 2nd to Ottawa for Tkachuk (future for now, and a player who fills a huge need)

2. Jokiharju to Carolina for Kotkaniemi (fills a need right now)

3. Retain Savoie and Ostlund as the future of the center position.

4. Buyout Skinner

5. 2024 1st and Rosen for Zegras or Necas (futures for now, with the acquired player still having upside.

6. Sign middling free agents who fill a need for about $1M per position.

It's not perfect. Some of you will puke at it. But it's an example of how Adams could improve the current team for the 2024-25 season and maintain a strong farm system.

The only player you even targeted worth looking at is Tkachuk

Zegras is a major no
Necas is just going to get overpaid for mediocre stats
Kotkaniemi brings me less than zero joy

Lastly, dealing away Peterka is a net negative in terms of offense