The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[5 Minute Major]

It does look like the Zegras to Buffalo rumors are real.

Read it from a few different places now.
(Not that it's gonna happen)

I will vomit all over myself if that happens.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Guesses on price for get on Zegras ?

11 + ?

24' 2nd and prospect ?

 

[OkimLom]

I have zero interest at all in zegras. Hes more or less exactly what savoie and kulich project to be.
Matter of fact all I see is a young Jeff Skinner. The same type of player we are up in arms with eachother about if we should pay him to NOT be on the team. Obviously there's a salary discrepancy between this comparison but still. Hes not the add that makes us better or harder to play against. And hes not a free agent add. Youd have to also trade valuable pieces to get him...

Im closer to supporting throwing the moon and stars at Brady than this zegras idea.

P.s cirelli is still the answer

Zegras is an infinitely more talented player than Savoie and Kulich have EVER been projected to be. He's a lot more than what those guys project out to be. He's a guy, just looking at the guy's pure skill level, that is an elite talent in league. If I had to give a comparable of his skillset + potential + "aggravation because he has some massive character traits that hold him back", He's the American version of Evgeny Kuznetsov.

But in regards to the rest of your post, yeah, I would tend to agree, he's not an option to the solution of what ails this team at this point in time. He'd be a bad player to throw a bunch of assets at to acquire, even if said assets to be a steal to help Anaheim take him off their hands.

 

[Fjordy]

Trading for Zegras would strike me exactly the same way that trading for Byram did: We're acquiring talent with no real thought given to building a complete team. Yes, Zegras is talented. But we've got PLENTY of talent (young talent at that) in our top 6. We need guys that are harder to play against. Zegras, while talented, ain't it.

Dude, I totally agree that we need players that are hard to play against, but that has nothing to do with trading for Zegras or Ehlers or signing Kane, just examples.

We have the talent, but Zegras is already in the NHL, yes he had a bad season and got hurt, but before that he was consistent and played on a terrible team that tanked and threw kids under the train. They didn't even have Granato.

If Adams trades for Zegras, that doesn't mean he can't also get Colton, Foegele, Stenlund and Lomberg (for example).

 

[Sabre the Win]

I understand. Both extremes are wrong though. The opposite extreme is the Tim Murray approach.

In hindsight Tim Murray brought in all future Stanley Cup winners. Yes he overpaid but he identified players that can contribute to winning as has been proven and thrown over and over in our faces. His execution was due to the coaches he hired and the fact he couldn't keep his mouth shut in the media.

 

[Ace]

In hindsight Tim Murray brought in all future Stanley Cup winners. Yes he overpaid but he identified players that can contribute to winning as has been proven and thrown over and over in our faces. His execution was due to the coaches he hired and the fact he couldn't keep his mouth shut in the media.

He also did absolutely nothing as they circled the drain his last year here. Everyone seems to ignore it when they make him out to be a carefree clueless idiot who traded his cows for magic beans. He got fired after a season where he made no moves and let them drown. And it isn’t even why he got fired. He got fired because Terry didn’t feel in the loop enough.

Also most of those beans sprouted Cup rings.

 

[Beerz]

He also did absolutely nothing as they circled the drain his last year here. Everyone seems to ignore it when they make him out to be a carefree clueless idiot who traded his cows for magic beans. He got fired after a season where he made no moves and let them drown. And it isn’t even why he got fired. He got fired because Terry didn’t feel in the loop enough.

Also most of those beans sprouted Cup rings.

Murray got fired because he wouldn't fire Bylsma.

 

[DJN21]

Dude, I totally agree that we need players that are hard to play against, but that has nothing to do with trading for Zegras or Ehlers or signing Kane, just examples.

We have the talent, but Zegras is already in the NHL, yes he had a bad season and got hurt, but before that he was consistent and played on a terrible team that tanked and threw kids under the train. They didn't even have Granato.

If Adams trades for Zegras, that doesn't mean he can't also get Colton, Foegele, Stenlund and Lomberg (for example).

Not to sound like a doomsday poster like djp but the cap eventually punches you in the face. Guys like necas or zegras are luxuries not needs. Either spend big on guys that help fix this teams identity in the form of brady/cirelli/Crouse etc or just remake the bottom six with guys like you mentioned and hope that guys like kulich, savoie, Rosen hit the ground running and can be vastly cheaper versions of additions like zegras or necas.

 

[Fjordy]

Not to sound like a doomsday poster like djp but the cap eventually punches you in the face. Guys like necas or zegras are luxuries not needs. Either spend big on guys that help fix this teams identity in the form of brady/cirelli/Crouse etc or just remake the bottom six with guys like you mentioned and hope that guys like kulich, savoie, Rosen hit the ground running and can be vastly cheaper versions of additions like zegras or necas.

I don't understand how the cap hits you in the face? Especially if they buyout Skinner. Zegras isn't getting much money. Necas is probably asking for 7 million or more right now. I don't want Necas at all.

All three of those players on your list seem unavailable, how do you get them?

 

[zenthusiast]

I don’t follow the youth, does mcgroarty offer anything stylistically that would justify a flip of a similarly rated winger prospect?

 

[Fjordy]

I don’t follow the youth, does mcgroarty offer anything stylistically that would justify a flip of a similarly rated winger prospect?

I really like McGroarty, he's the type of player we would probably look for. The problem is he wants to play in the NHL next season, so he needs guarantees. I wouldn't be surprised if Boston or Washington made a move for him and he played in the NHL next season and thrived.

 

[Sabre the Win]

He also did absolutely nothing as they circled the drain his last year here. Everyone seems to ignore it when they make him out to be a carefree clueless idiot who traded his cows for magic beans. He got fired after a season where he made no moves and let them drown. And it isn’t even why he got fired. He got fired because Terry didn’t feel in the loop enough.

Also most of those beans sprouted Cup rings.

He had his good and his bad for sure, easily the most polarising GM in the drought era.

 

[Zman5778]

I don’t follow the youth, does mcgroarty offer anything stylistically that would justify a flip of a similarly rated winger prospect?

Yes. He's progressed well and offers a lot of that hard-to-play-against that is sorely lacking in our system. And frankly, he could probably slide into a 3rd line role here right away. Put him with Benson and watch the chaos (and bodies) fly.

But I'd absolutely do something centered around Savoie or Kulich or Rosen for Rutger. Granted, WPG would likely have to add something small.....and they're much more likely to want NHL bodies.

 

[DJN21]

I don't understand how the cap hits you in the face? Especially if they buyout Skinner. Zegras isn't getting much money. Necas is probably asking for 7 million or more right now. I don't want Necas at all.

All three of those players on your list seem unavailable, how do you get them?

The cap hits you in the face because buy outs are no longer get out of jail free cards. There's gonna be years youre paying Skinner 2-6 mill and paying his replacement 5-8 depending on which replacement you wanna talk about. Jj and Byram and Quinn get raises...that all happens at the same time. And like any rationale sabres fan here we can all agree we need to invest money into bottom 6 role players and maybe a top 4 rhd...you cant have it all man

 

[zenthusiast]

I really like McGroarty, he's the type of player we would probably look for. The problem is he wants to play in the NHL next season, so he needs guarantees. I wouldn't be surprised if Boston or Washington made a move for him and he played in the NHL next season and thrived.

I wouldn’t be averse to giving anyone an inside track to a spot vacated by Skinner, etc.

Yes. He's progressed well and offers a lot of that hard-to-play-against that is sorely lacking in our system. And frankly, he could probably slide into a 3rd line role here right away. Put him with Benson and watch the chaos (and bodies) fly.

But I'd absolutely do something centered around Savoie or Kulich or Rosen for Rutger. Granted, WPG would likely have to add something small.....and they're much more likely to want NHL bodies.

That’s certainly a more complex ask. Seems like a move I’d like though.

 

[Dubi Doo]

The cap hits you in the face because buy outs are no longer get out of jail free cards. There's gonna be years youre paying Skinner 2-6 mill and paying his replacement 5-8 depending on which replacement you wanna talk about. Jj and Byram and Quinn get raises...that all happens at the same time. And like any rationale sabres fan here we can all agree we need to invest money into bottom 6 role players and maybe a top 4 rhd...you cant have it all man

All the more reason to keep the prospect pipeline locked and loaded. You just need to hit on a couple of those guys contributing at a solid level on their ELC, and that would help alleviate some of the pain of Skinner's buyout. Of course, that doesn't mean some can't be used as trade bait.

 

[DJN21]

All the more reason to keep the prospect pipeline locked and loaded. You just need to hit on a couple of those guys contributing at a solid level on their ELC, and that would help alleviate some of the pain of Skinner's buyout. Of course, that doesn't mean some can't be used as trade bait.

Like maybe instead of talking about trading for bottom/top 6 with size and grit we decide to just draft and develop them ourselves?! Instead of needing to pay a premium for a need within the organization we could actually use all that capital we have to throw some darts at the board? Gee it seems so simple and yet we draft undersized forwards over and over. Normally I'd say trust the scouts because they know more than me...but 13 years later we are a joke discussing how to address being harder to play against.

We see members everyday talking about how to find hidden gems other teams overlooked...here's an idea. Take fliers on guys like that yourself. In the last what? 10 years we have Brent Murray and Wahlberg to show for that?

 

[Fjordy]

The cap hits you in the face because buy outs are no longer get out of jail free cards. There's gonna be years youre paying Skinner 2-6 mill and paying his replacement 5-8 depending on which replacement you wanna talk about. Jj and Byram and Quinn get raises...that all happens at the same time. And like any rationale sabres fan here we can all agree we need to invest money into bottom 6 role players and maybe a top 4 rhd...you cant have it all man

The cap is going to hit us in the face anyway, but for me it's not a problem, it means everything is going well, we made the playoffs, and all our young players are improving. Well, then you're going to trade someone and get good value. It has nothing to do with Zegras or anyone else.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Like maybe instead of talking about trading for bottom/top 6 with size and grit we decide to just draft and develop them ourselves?! Instead of needing to pay a premium for a need within the organization we could actually use all that capital we have to throw some darts at the board? Gee it seems so simple and yet we draft undersized forwards over and over. Normally I'd say trust the scouts because they know more than me...but 13 years later we are a joke discussing how to address being harder to play against.

We see members everyday talking about how to find hidden gems other teams overlooked...here's an idea. Take fliers on guys like that yourself. In the last what? 10 years we have Brent Murray and Wahlberg to show for that?

Wahlberg signals to me that Adams and co. may get it on that front. Didn't they trade up for him, too?

On the flip side, I've actually been a fan of Adams drafting over the years. Power, Quinn, Ostlund, Peterka, Savoie, Kulich, Benson, etc...is quite the pull from the last handful of drafts. I'm quite impressed that he drafted Quinn and Peterka is a draft where he only had 5 picks. Some of those picks weren't high first rounders, either. Benson, Kulich, Ostlund and Peterka weren't top-10 picks.

 

[Fjordy]

I wouldn’t be averse to giving anyone an inside track to a spot vacated by Skinner, etc.

I immediately said we need to kick the tires on McGroarty and if anything come to a compromise with him. He also played under the new coach Rochester Leone.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Utah is flush with draft picks and prospects. They have no reason to move Crouse even if he's someone who would be a great - perhaps even the best - fit in that mid-6 with size mold. Another would be Trent Frederic in Boston - versatile and productive at 5-on-5 and tougher than any forward the Sabres can throw over the boards. But again... no reason for the Bruins to make that move. Similarly, Mason Marchment would be a solid add in the mid-6... but he has a move clause list.

This is where having questions about the quality of their pro scouting comes into play. Marchment was a cast-off from the Leafs organization (so was Verhaeghe but different style). Joshua was someone toiling on the Blues farm team. Hell, we know AJ Greer was a punk and the Bruins valued that enough to pull him up to their NHL team before he went on to Calgary. It's finding the guys coming out of other team's scrap heap where they are likely to find someone who isn't both expensive to sign or expensive to acquire. Wish they had a track record there, but that's not been a strength in years.

Joshua was with the Leafs before the Blues.

 

[Djp]

I just refuse to believe that if we're willing to trade #11 and/or top prospects that we can't find something to help (defensive RD, 2 way winger with size, 3c, 4c). We have cap space, not unlimited, but plenty to make moves.

Sure you can get a RD and a 3C for 11OA bit is it a poor/ unwise investment

I get that players have NTC's and non-ideal contract situations, but it's no excuse. You can't use stuff like that as excuses if you want to be a champion. At some point, our GM needs to be competitive and bring in players who can make a difference. There may be risk involved. It's time to go for it. It's time to draft Josh Allen, so to speak.

If the player only has one year left on their contract, that should not prevent us from acquiring them. Yes, they could leave after a year, but if it's the right piece and we have some success, maybe they stay? Find a way to convince them.

You want a player who has a NTC and you're on it. Ok, talk to them. Convince them. Send the Pegula-copter. Find a way.

Trading 11OA for a ufa that walks isnt going to be nice to see

You want a player in FA who is going to cost too much to sign. Do it anyway, and figure out a way to deal with any negative cap consequences down the line if needed.

You want a player who doesn't have a NTC, wants to come to Buffalo, and has a perfect contract, but it will cost your 1st and a top prospect. Make the damn deal. Find a steal in the second round if you don't have your first. Make it work.

It's time for Adams to take a couple of calculated swings or he's going to strike out looking with the bases loaded.

You cant get out of long contracts.

It does look like the Zegras to Buffalo rumors are real.

Read it from a few different places now.
(Not that it's gonna happen)

It could have been from judt one article and redone in others

Several of the public space bloggers have said Zegras doesn't mesh with what Verbeek wants as a player - he's not been in shape, is not committed on the ice. Might he change? Sure. Right now he seems like a rotten fruit.

Hrs a project. Not giving up 110A

What about Stamkos on a 2x12-13 if we buy out Skinner.

Then came the cap.

Do the math.

8/5/0 with 23.5M
2 G signed for $6M
2 D for 2.5M
2 ELC F promoted
2 F for $2M each

12/7/2 with about $9M in space
Buy out Skinner creates a lott this yr to absorb $12M

in 25/26 you have RFAs to resign costing $7M extra with cap up by $3M

Thry had thr %
$9M in space this yr+3M cap inc-7M nee contracts = $5M in space next yr before you need to sign Stamkos

Mangiapane is the first guy that popped into mind. Go get him from Calgary if we can. Hell, if Calgary is going for a complete rebuild -- go get Mangiapane AND Coleman.

That's how you make the middle 6 much tougher to play against.

Without sending salary out, not moves can be made

Zegras is an infinitely more talented player than Savoie and Kulich have EVER been projected to be.

Source????

Murray got fired because he wouldn't fire Bylsma.

He also had a leaker.

I don't understand how the cap hits you in the face? Especially if they buyout Skinner. Zegras isn't getting much money. Necas is probably asking for 7 million or more right now. I don't want Necas at all.

Before any skinner move

They might have $8M-$9M in space after signing some low level players
Next summer th hey resign players for $7M and cap goes up $3M changes space to ,$5M.

What that says is that can sign/acquire a $5M player for 2 yrs and s $4M player for 1 yr.

With cap going up in 26/27 to keep Tch, benson, promoting a RD and not resigning Clifton might be a break even between csp inc and resigning leaving %5M in space

If they can trade Skinner st 5m adds 4m across the 4 yrs.

 

[DJN21]

Wahlberg signals to me that Adams and co. may get it on that front. Didn't they trade up for him, too?

On the flip side, I've actually been a fan of Adams drafting over the years. Power, Quinn, Ostlund, Peterka, Savoie, Kulich, Benson, etc...is quite the pull from the last handful of drafts. I'm quite impressed that he drafted Quinn and Peterka is a draft where he only had 5 picks. Some of those picks weren't high first rounders, either. Benson, Kulich, Ostlund and Peterka weren't top-10 picks.

The fliers you take on guys like im talking about aren't your 1st or 2nds. We've done great there. We need to identify role players with size with our other picks. We don't need karabecek, cornel, etc etc etc. The list goes on. Identify guys with size that can grow into role players and develop them. Then you dont need to pay a premium for them.

 

[Dingo44]

Yes. He's progressed well and offers a lot of that hard-to-play-against that is sorely lacking in our system. And frankly, he could probably slide into a 3rd line role here right away. Put him with Benson and watch the chaos (and bodies) fly.

But I'd absolutely do something centered around Savoie or Kulich or Rosen for Rutger. Granted, WPG would likely have to add something small.....and they're much more likely to want NHL bodies.

As someone else pointed out, we drafted Savoie instead of McGroarty and Savoie's development has more than met expectations. Not sure why we'd then trade Savoie for him. Kulich or Rosén sure.

I'm an NDTP fan and frequent attendee so I'll always have a bias but it also lets me see these kids from when they're 16 and sometimes get a chance to meet them. I know Zegras has this rep but it didn't align with his play in the program. He was 2C behind Jack Hughes except when Hughes was away for the World Juniors and then he slid up to 1C. He always carried his line even with guys like Caufield and Boldy and Turcotte and they played him in all situations including on the power play. The Ducks have been a dumpster fire and almost historically bad defensively. Plus he's a nice kid and funny and we really liked talking to him.
That being said, I would still take McGroarty over him though I may have taken Snuggerud over both of them.

 

[Zman5778]

As someone else pointed out, we drafted Savoie instead of McGroarty and Savoie's development has more than met expectations. Not sure why we'd then trade Savoie for him. Kulich or Rosén sure.

I said centered around. Obviously, WPG would have to add something to Rutger in order to get Savoie.