The Rise And Fall Of Mike Sullivan...

[CharasLazyWrister]

The Penguins have been milking the old core of Letang, Crosby, and Malkin for everything it is worth for years now. Despite the repeated pleas from fans and analysts to accumulate future assets for a rebuild, there has been a palpable resistance for years by ownership and through multiple GM's. When Brian Burke came on board as President in early 2021, he was told by ownership that the franchise was still committed to pursuing another Cup run despite the aging of the team's stars. When no progress was made toward this goal, he was let go along with GM Ron Hextall.

Since they won their last Cup in 2017, the Penguins have won a single playoff series. They also missed the playoffs for the first time in 16 years in 2023. Despite "revamping" the FO with the hiring of Kyle Dubas, who was clearly apt to forward ownership's vision of bypassing a rebuild with the addition of yet another aging piece in Erik Karlsson, Coach Mike Sullivan has remained safe regardless of results. Pens ownership has repeatedly expressed full confidence despite years of floundering. About a year ago, "new" GM Kyle Dubas proclaimed, "if you don't have Sully, you're looking for Sully", suggesting as close to a lifetime contract as one could ever realistically promote in professional sports.

My question is...why? In an industry in which coaches often teeter on the brink of getting fired for even brief spirts of poor play, why is Sullivan permanently baked into the franchise? Given the resistance to a rebuild, and the burning desire for another Cup run despite significant headwinds, how has a coaching change not been tried considering years upon years of coming nowhere close to the stated goal? It is a mystery that truly baffles me and I'm looking of any insight as to a legitimate reason for it.

 

[Stealth JD]

Dubas is afraid of him

 

[Royale With Cheese]

There another Mike Sullivan thread with plenty of angst in it already.

The Rise And Fall Of Mike Sullivan...

All great coaches invariably fall into the same traps by virtue of being human. Any one or many may apply to Sullivan, I haven't watched the Penguins closely enough to know which: 1) Reading their own press and beginning to believe that their genius, and not the talent on the ice, is...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Thanks. I’ll let the mods shut it down. Despite searching for another recent sullivan thread before creating this one, I somehow missed that one.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

He's just one of those guys who has a golden horse shoe and a silver spoon up his ass. Lindy Ruff and Don Waddell are other examples. How they've held a job for as long as they did and do is mystifying.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I am sure Dubie would have loved to shit can Mike Sullivan and hire Keefe in the off season but his hands were and still are tied by ownership.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

I think Sullivan has a lot of input on what players the front office pursues and signs, so people solely blaming Dubas for the state of the team now are being short-sighted.

I have to agree with this. There’s been plenty written about how Dubas and Sullivan “share the same vision” on how to build the team. Sullivan has also described up-tempo, risk taking hockey as being part of the “DNA” of the franchise. It sort of seems like Sully and Dubas are dreamers who refuse to acknowledge the reality of the situation. That being said, ownership is the exact same way.

Overall, the entirety of the Pens franchise just seems to be in denial and it’s been that way for years. No matter the results, they just try again the next year only to see the same thing happen or worse. I imagine I’d have long lost my shit it I were a Pens fan.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

I have to agree with this. There’s been plenty written about how Dubas and Sullivan “share the same vision” on how to build the team. Sullivan has also described up-tempo, risk taking hockey as being part of the “DNA” of the franchise. It sort of seems like Sully and Dubas are dreamers who refuse to acknowledge the reality of the situation. That being said, ownership is the exact same way.

Overall, the entirety of the Pens franchise just seems to be in denial and it’s been that way for years. No matter the results, they just try again the next year only to see the same thing happen or worse. I imagine I’d have long lost my shit it I were a Pens fan.

The recent Cup wins help a lot, and I'm fine with ownership not moving on from Crosby and Malkin because they're franchise icons, but yeah, it's a frustrating situation.

 

[PaulD]

They change 5 to 10 players every summer. Record will show most go to Pens and have their worst season to date....under Sullivan. Karlsson, Rielly Smith, Rakell, Graves, Eller, Petry, Accarai, ...just to name a few.
He coaches the same way no matter the roster changes , no matter what the score is, or who the opponent is, no matter what the clock says. He's known not to even attempt matching lines.
Some fans and player say Babs was a "poser". Sullivan is the poster boy of posers.

 

[PensPlz]

People named Mike in Pittsburgh don't get fired for being inept coaches who no longer win in the playoffs, if they can even get there.

Hell. I'd argue Sullivan deserves a little more grace since he's won a championship more recently than Tomlin has even won a playoff game...

But this is the new normal: the comfort of consistent mediocrity.

 

[LevelingSolo]

I am sure Dubie would have loved to shit can Mike Sullivan and hire Keefe in the off season but his hands were and still are tied by ownership.

There was a rumour circulating that after Keefe was canned in Toronto, Sullivan was to resign and join New Jersey and Keefe was Pittsburgh bound to reunite with his old buddy

‘‘Twas not to be and Sullivan would remain coach of the pens and Keefe would be the one to ironically end up in Jersey

I think you’re right and that Pens ownership likely vetoed this from happening

 

[BallardEra]

He can only rise after tonight.

 

[Ignatius]

He can only rise after tonight.

More like float at water level and stink up the place

 

[Miro4Norris]

There is no fall of Mike Sullivan. Well maybe in 2032 when his next contract and extension are finished.

Can't believe he got to stay behind Penguins bench after losing 24th place Montreal in 2020, year after being swept by the Isles on the first round. 5 years later, he's still there, with brand new extension

Penguins lost so many year of the generational core by living in the past, first with Bylsma, then with Sullivan. Considering that, 3 Cups is incredible result.

 

[StreetHawk]

A couple of the HC who won a cup after the Pens last did are gone.

2018 - Caps - Trotz gone
2019 - Blues - Berube

 

[Ignatius]

Penguins lost so many year of the generational core by living in the past, first with Bylsma, then with Sullivan. Considering that, 3 Cups is incredible result.

My theory is that they gave Bylsma 5 years of leash for winning one Cup so Sullivan will get 10 years of leash for winning two Cups.

I was at Sullivan's first game as HC, so maybe December 2025 they'll cut him loose? Maybe that will spark the last ride of this core to win another Cup, if Ovi can do what he's doing this late in his career who's to say that old man Sid can't win another Cup in Pittsburgh? I enjoy being delusional on HF

 

[heysmilinstrange]

I feel like Pittsburgh is closer to renaming the team Pittsburgh Mike Sullivans than they are to firing him.

 

[BallardEra]

"I'm not going sit here and say I'm frustrated because I'm not," Penguins head coach Mike Sullivan said post-game. "I'm determined to move this team forward and get us moving in the right direction more consistently.

"I know we're a way better hockey team than what we displayed out there, and I know we have a group of guys that care."

'Not where we want to be': Penguins' slow start comes to a head after blowout loss to Stars

Miro Heiskanen scored two of Dallas' six first-period goals, and the Stars beat the Pittsburgh Penguins 7-1 on Monday night.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[tarheelhockey]

So weird that he was an amazing coach when the team was stacked and turned into a terrible coach when they got older and lost talent.

 

[BallardEra]

So weird that he was an amazing coach when the team was stacked and turned into a terrible coach when they got older and lost talent.

Maybe he hasn't adapted his coaching style to fit this older and slower team?

 

[tarheelhockey]

Maybe he hasn't adapted his coaching style to fit this older and slower team?

Maybe old and slow teams just aren’t good?

Good luck finding the coach whose style is “slow” in 2024.

 

[BallardEra]

Maybe old and slow teams just aren’t good?

Good luck finding the coach whose style is “slow” in 2024.

I agree.

Any new coach coming in will probably play a defensive system looking to win 2-1 or 3-2 "coin flip" games.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I agree.

Any new coach coming in will probably play a defensive system looking to win 2-1 or 3-2 "coin flip" games.

Exactly. The Pens have been about average offensively, but there’s no way to be a winning team with a .886 in net.

The replacement coach is going to want to protect the goalies from taking shots from less than 20 feet, so they’ll have everyone sit back and strangle the life out of the game. Try and score a PPG or two per game, win 2-1, rinse and repeat. They’ll go on a little winning streak and the coach will be a “genius” and eventually they’ll succumb to a lack of depth and need to continue with a rebuild anyway. It’s like what the Flyers did with Torts last year, just making the fans more and more miserable one move at a time.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

My theory is that they gave Bylsma 5 years of leash for winning one Cup so Sullivan will get 10 years of leash for winning two Cups.

I was at Sullivan's first game as HC, so maybe December 2025 they'll cut him loose? Maybe that will spark the last ride of this core to win another Cup, if Ovi can do what he's doing this late in his career who's to say that old man Sid can't win another Cup in Pittsburgh? I enjoy being delusional on HF

I was at this game as well. The Penguins were getting shelled by the Caps and some guy stood up in the middle of the game and shouted "DON'T WORRY EVERYONE, GOOD NEWS... WE JUST TRADED ROB SCUDERI!!!" This was the trade that brought Trevor Daley to Pittsburgh, an instrumental part of the Penguins cup victory that year. One of the more memorable moments of the 100ish live games I've attended.


If they bring in a new coach who's to say what they can do. While betting on them to win the cup would be a fool's errand, they certainly can get more out of this roster than Sullivan is currently getting.

 

[BallardEra]

Exactly. The Pens have been about average offensively, but there’s no way to be a winning team with a .886 in net.

The replacement coach is going to want to protect the goalies from taking shots from less than 20 feet, so they’ll have everyone sit back and strangle the life out of the game. Try and score a PPG or two per game, win 2-1, rinse and repeat. They’ll go on a little winning streak and the coach will be a “genius” and eventually they’ll succumb to a lack of depth and need to continue with a rebuild anyway. It’s like what the Flyers did with Torts last year, just making the fans more and more miserable one move at a time.

Very true. They simply don't have the depth and talent to score goals like they once did.

If they miss the playoffs again this season, that will be 3 straight years and then next year the core is 38-39 years old.

They need some good young talent injected into the lineup to help do the heavy lifting for the aging core.

Easier said than done.