The Ref Fix (and not what you think)

[GoldenBearHockey]

The 6-1 disparity was a joke. Both Nash’s stick infractions were a joke, Gardiner’s was a travesty. Dermott got 2 for being too strong lol. By my count in terms of PP’s....Should have been at best 3-2 in favor of the Bruins.

Just reread this, you think polaks slash wasn't a penalty?? Really??

 

[Pookie]

Well, I suggested that it could be .5-1% in favor of one team. And, as for what happens when they play each other, is what were seeing in this thread. Generally, most fans will talk of a bias leaning toward TO, but maybe it's not there when they play Boston.
OK, if the semi-finals are Boston/Columbus and San Jose/Colorado, one would be very naive to think there wouldn't be even a smidgen of bias from the NHL leaning toward a Boston/SJS final.

So let’s assume there is game influencing bias.

With the league officials headquartered in Toronto. Run by Stephen Walkom who was born in North Bay, ON and has a School in Guelph.

With 31 of 40 Refs being born in Canada.

With Rogers/Bell owning the TV rights at $5B compared to NBC’s 2B.

With the franchise values and contributions to HRR.... how is Toronto not well positioned to benefit from “bias” if it exists to game influencing levels?

Because Jacobs’ influence is stronger than MLSE? C’mon. That’s quite a system to rig.

I know you acknowledged that above. More of a general question to the group.

 

[glucker]

This is NOT a referee bashing thread.

Fans of every team whine about calls and non calls. Some cite “bias” or that the league favours Canadian, American, big market, or small market teams.

All of that is nonsense.

The universal truth about NHL officiating is that they don’t call everything. You can’t call everything. There would be 60 mins of constant 3 on 3 and the box would be full. They are also human and miss things slow mo replay catches.

A penalty in the 1st is usually not a penalty in OT. It is just is. Deal with it.

HOWEVER, one thing that is real and a major problem is consistency from game to game. Some let things go. Some are more strict.

Refs also do not seem to have an understanding of what is happening through the series.

The SOLUTION is to assign Refs to a series and don’t rotate them around game by game. Teams would understand what they can and can’t get away with. Instead of a game by game variance in tolerance. Warnings to players would carry over.

In short it would be an improvement over what we have now.

This is a terrible “fix”, when you have some refs blatantly tilting the ice.

A much better fix would be to create some accountability among officials. Have an off-ice stats guy (former ref) keep track of the blown/missed calls. If any ref exceeds a certain margin of error, have a more formal review of his work.

 

[Sniper99]

Give me a break that Dermott "penalty"wasnt dangerous at all. Again with the JVR ******** you continue to bring up, it wasn't a Knee know matter how nasty you think it was. We get it you're just a salty little Leafs hater. Try not to be so soft.

Lol leaf hater? No probably not, but if you think jvr didn't knee Krug, you probably think Kadris hit was clean[/QUOTE]

No, actually I didnt but thanks for making yourself look bad, I appreciate the comedy. I thought the hit was dirty but not worth 3 games.

 

[glucker]

So let’s assume there is game influencing bias.

With the league officials headquartered in Toronto. Run by Stephen Walkom who was born in North Bay, ON and has a School in Guelph.

With 31 of 40 Refs being born in Canada.

With Rogers/Bell owning the TV rights at $5B compared to NBC’s 2B.

With the franchise values and contributions to HRR.... how is Toronto not well positioned to benefit from “bias” if it exists to game influencing levels?

Because Jacobs’ influence is stronger than MLSE? C’mon. That’s quite a system to rig.

I know you acknowledged that above. More of a general question to the group.

Generally speaking I think the Leafs suffer from refs going too hard trying to avoid the appearance of bias.

However, these last three games in Boston it feels like a different story. The difference in reffing between the games in bean town and Toronto is quite jarring.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

This is a terrible “fix”, when you have some refs blatantly tilting the ice.

A much better fix would be to create some accountability among officials. Have an off-ice stats guy (former ref) keep track of the blown/missed calls. If any ref exceeds a certain margin of error, have a more formal review of his work.

They already have that, and it works. The main problem with officiating is not officiating, it's trying to understand officiating through fan bias, and not a lot of people can do that, it's called being a fan.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Lol leaf hater? No probably not, but if you think jvr didn't knee Krug, you probably think Kadris hit was clean

No, actually I didnt but thanks for making yourself look bad, I appreciate the comedy. I thought the hit was dirty but not worth 3 games.[/QUOTE]

I was surprised it was only three games with his history, then he follows it up with a cross check to the head of a Boston player, not smart

 

[Pookie]

This non-call that favoured the Leafs sort of flies in the face of bias though doesn’t it?

4 x head shot suspensions. 1st game back from the most recent?

 

[Pookie]

This is a terrible “fix”, when you have some refs blatantly tilting the ice.

A much better fix would be to create some accountability among officials. Have an off-ice stats guy (former ref) keep track of the blown/missed calls. If any ref exceeds a certain margin of error, have a more formal review of his work.

They do that. Results aren’t made public

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

This non-call that favoured the Leafs sort of flies in the face of bias though doesn’t it?

4 x head shot suspensions. 1st game back from the most recent?

Not to Leaf fans, thus the problem, it's not officiating, it's fan bias

 

[Pookie]

Generally speaking I think the Leafs suffer from refs going too hard trying to avoid the appearance of bias.

However, these last three games in Boston it feels like a different story. The difference in reffing between the games in bean town and Toronto is quite jarring.

I would agree there is inconsistency.

And no doubt any logical hockey fan would have expected some even up penalty calls.

I’m just saying it’s very likely that we aren’t witnessing match fixing. And it’s very likely that Boston “bias” would be filtered out with pro Toronto factors.

I think you simply have inconsistency from game to game and some mistakes. They don’t come from a place of malicious intent

 

[Pookie]

Not to Leaf fans, thus the problem, it's not officiating, it's fan bias

I’m a Leaf fan. That’s a penalty. And Kadri is extremely lucky.

I also think the Bruins were lucky not to get even up calls with the game tilted in their favour.

 

[Sniper99]

Not to Leaf fans, thus the problem, it's not officiating, it's fan bias

OMG LOL the stick was above Debrusks helmet. LOL cmon now.

Just stop.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I’m a Leaf fan. That’s a penalty. And Kadri is extremely lucky.

I also think the Bruins were lucky not to get even up calls with the game tilted in their favour.

Bruins didn't really give them any chances

 

[Pookie]

Bruins didn't really give them any chances

Ok, now that’s just silly

 

[glucker]

Bruins didn't really give them any chances

LOL

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

OMG LOL the stick was above Debrusks helmet. LOL cmon now.

Just stop.

And you just keep proving my point, fan bias

 

[glucker]

This non-call that favoured the Leafs sort of flies in the face of bias though doesn’t it?

4 x head shot suspensions. 1st game back from the most recent?

Doesn’t make contact.

Debrusk could have easily gotten a boarding call. Went straight for the numbers.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Ok, now that’s just silly

They didn't, Bruins controlled most of the 3rd period, when did the Leafs have the puck to force the officials into a makeup call?

There simply wasnt much there to "makeup" a call.

 

[glucker]

And you just keep proving my point, fan bias

Just because you’re biased to the point of seeing things, doesn’t mean it’s a widespread problem.


That’s maybe a penalty in the preseason.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Doesn’t make contact.

Debrusk could have easily gotten a boarding call. Went straight for the numbers.

And...fan bias again,

You guys keep proving me right, over and over again

 

[glucker]

They do that. Results aren’t made public

If it’s not public, then there really isn’t any accountability.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

If it’s not public, then there really isn’t any accountability.

Of course there is, refs get released all the time, who do you think they need to be accountable to, fans with fan bias? Cmon now

 

[Pookie]

Doesn’t make contact.

Debrusk could have easily gotten a boarding call. Went straight for the numbers.

C’mon. Kadri turned away from the hit, exposing numbers and then went with a two handed cross check in retaliation. Never seen that called before?

He got away with one there.

 

[glucker]

C’mon. Kadri turned away from the hit, exposing numbers and then went with a two handed cross check in retaliation. Never seen that called before?

He got away with one there.

He doesn’t touch him, though. I wish I could say I haven’t seen a penalty called when the penalized player doesn’t even touch the “victim”... but I did watch last nights game.