The Race for the Calder Trophy

[Mrfenn92]

As I’ve stated before in this thread. Enjoy the young rookies this year. Have a really good class and going to be fun to watch going forward

 

[Toby91ca]

A huge part of excelling as a center is taking care of the defensive side of the game. I've stated countless times how great he's been offensively, but there's more to the sport than that. It's crazy that's some controversial idea.

Agree....but he's an 18 year old rookie....he's not being discussed as potentially the best in the game at this point. In terms of Calder trophy, I don't care about defensive side for a forward.....mostly because no one is going to be good enough at it at that point in their career to move the dial.

 

[Toby91ca]

The fact that Bédard is most likely the next generational player and will have the best career doesn't mean he's necessarily the best rookie this year.

Agree on this, but his actual performance "this year" is what makes him the best rookie....I don't think it's relatively close at this point.

 

[shakes the clown]

He's giving us what we all (well, mostly all) wanted to see!


And judging by your account name, I take it you're a bit of an expert on clowns!
There sure have been more than a few clownish posts here though....

lol so true. Hurts my soul to disparage clowns, but these Faber takes make even my clown shoes look a little bit smaller.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

10 points in 3 games against Arizona and Anaheim is a nice buoy for the season production.

Not like those points aren't out there for everyone else though, so kudos to him.

 

[Ajex12x]

A huge part of excelling as a center is taking care of the defensive side of the game. I've stated countless times how great he's been offensively, but there's more to the sport than that. It's crazy that's some controversial idea.

Controversial? Crazy? Don't know what to say other than stop posting. The crazy thing is to think he would have a fully rounded game coming right out of the gate which is what you seem to expect.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Agree....but he's an 18 year old rookie....he's not being discussed as potentially the best in the game at this point. In terms of Calder trophy, I don't care about defensive side for a forward.....mostly because no one is going to be good enough at it at that point in their career to move the dial.

Completely agreed, but I guess that was kind of my point. It's really hard to be an 18 year old center in this league. Very few can do it in a competent manner - not many 18 year old true centers have had successful rookie years in all 3 zones.

For me, I think of the Calder as "which rookie would I choose if I were trying to build a Stanley Cup winner?". Bedard is already an all world offensive talent, but I would have serious concerns about having him match up against the other top centers in the league in a best of 7 series. That doesn't mean he's destined to be a defensive liability his entire career, but the reality is there just aren't many 18 year old centers who I would trust in such a way. I would not have those same concerns with Faber. Its not really a "fair" comparison though - Faber is 3 years older.

Now, if we are talking Faber vs Bedard as a winger (assuming you already have a strong matchup 1C), I think that's a tougher call. I would still probably take the 1D over the 1RW, unless I'm on a team that struggles to score.

He's f***ing 18. I'm guessing his defensive game improves drastically.

I do too, but this is a thread about the best rookie in the league right now. And right now, he is very very not good defensively.

What an idiotic criticism. Kid is a PPG on one of the worst offensive teams of the last 20 years.

I know, and I have praised his offensive ability countless times in threads like these. He's a treat to watch in the offensive zone, his puck skills and IQ are just off the charts. Just wait until he gets a bit quicker and stronger, he is going to be such a pain in the ass to defend.

Controversial? Crazy? Don't know what to say other than stop posting. The crazy thing is to think he would have a fully rounded game coming right out of the gate which is what you seem to expect.

I didn't expect that, but again the Calder is about who is the best rookie. It's really hard for an 18 year old center to win this award because it's such a demanding position.

 

[cassac]

Completely agreed, but I guess that was kind of my point. It's really hard to be an 18 year old center in this league. Very few can do it in a competent manner - not many 18 year old true centers have had successful rookie years in all 3 zones.

For me, I think of the Calder as "which rookie would I choose if I were trying to build a Stanley Cup winner?". Bedard is already an all world offensive talent, but I would have serious concerns about having him match up against the other top centers in the league in a best of 7 series. That doesn't mean he's destined to be a defensive liability his entire career, but the reality is there just aren't many 18 year old centers who I would trust in such a way. I would not have those same concerns with Faber. Its not really a "fair" comparison though - Faber is 3 years older.

Now, if we are talking Faber vs Bedard as a winger (assuming you already have a strong matchup 1C), I think that's a tougher call. I would still probably take the 1D over the 1RW, unless I'm on a team that struggles to score.


I do too, but this is a thread about the best rookie in the league right now. And right now, he is very very not good defensively.


I know, and I have praised his offensive ability countless times in threads like these. He's a treat to watch in the offensive zone, his puck skills and IQ are just off the charts. Just wait until he gets a bit quicker and stronger, he is going to be such a pain in the ass to defend.


I didn't expect that, but again the Calder is about who is the best rookie. It's really hard for an 18 year old center to win this award because it's such a demanding position.

You answered your own question right there.

Would I rather have a possible generational offensive talent to build a stanley cup or a defensement that might be in the top ten of all defensemen in the NHL?

Besides that, performance matters as well. I do not think anyone would have taking Panarin over McDavid if they were chosing a record to build a Stanley Cup winner around but McDavid did not win the Calder. Bedard is starting to run away as far as performance goes.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Faber was excellent last night in a victory, the Wild played at the same time as Chicago, anyone that chose to watch the Wild game instead would have walked away impressed at Faber’s proficiency up and down the ice. Primary assist, +2 and was a one man breakout machine, passing was pristine the entire game, highly impressive.

I didn’t watch the Blackhawk’s game but anyone saying it’s a run away on skill is disingenuous IMO.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

You answered your own question right there.

Would I rather have a possible generational offensive talent to build a stanley cup or a defensement that might be in the top ten of all defensemen in the NHL?

In terms of centers, I'd probably rate Bedard around 20-30th today. Offensively, he's probably already a top 10-15 forward, but his age and lack of experience make him a significant liability defensively, which really kills a center's value in today's NHL.

Besides that, performance matters as well.

How do you define performance?

I do not think anyone would have taking Panarin over McDavid if they were chosing a record to build a Stanley Cup winner around but McDavid did not win the Calder.

Obviously McDavid would have won the Calder had he played enough games.

Bedard is starting to run away as far as performance goes.

If you define performance as "points", then yeah. But there's more to hockey performance than that.

 

[cassac]

In terms of centers, I'd probably rate Bedard around 20-30th today. Offensively, he's probably already a top 10-15 forward, but his age and lack of experience make him a significant liability defensively, which really kills a center's value in today's NHL.

You said build a Stanley Cup winner. Not play in one this year. He will continue to age and get experience. There are very few rookie centers that step in and do not struggle defensively, especially an 18 year old rookie. Yet, they seem to figure it out as they mature.

I really think you are overstating the issues with Bedard's defensive game. It isn't like Kane who really did not seem to care about defensive at all. Bedard is engaged and will continue to improve.

 

[Ajex12x]

Completely agreed, but I guess that was kind of my point. It's really hard to be an 18 year old center in this league. Very few can do it in a competent manner - not many 18 year old true centers have had successful rookie years in all 3 zones.

For me, I think of the Calder as "which rookie would I choose if I were trying to build a Stanley Cup winner?". Bedard is already an all world offensive talent, but I would have serious concerns about having him match up against the other top centers in the league in a best of 7 series. That doesn't mean he's destined to be a defensive liability his entire career, but the reality is there just aren't many 18 year old centers who I would trust in such a way. I would not have those same concerns with Faber. Its not really a "fair" comparison though - Faber is 3 years older.

Now, if we are talking Faber vs Bedard as a winger (assuming you already have a strong matchup 1C), I think that's a tougher call. I would still probably take the 1D over the 1RW, unless I'm on a team that struggles to score.


I do too, but this is a thread about the best rookie in the league right now. And right now, he is very very not good defensively.


I know, and I have praised his offensive ability countless times in threads like these. He's a treat to watch in the offensive zone, his puck skills and IQ are just off the charts. Just wait until he gets a bit quicker and stronger, he is going to be such a pain in the ass to defend.


I didn't expect that, but again the Calder is about who is the best rookie. It's really hard for an 18 year old center to win this award because it's such a demanding position.

No it's not hard for an 18 year old center to win just because he's a center. It's harder to win when you're 18 (11 years since an 18 yo won).

Then you say Fabri vs Bedard isn't a fair comparison, and in the next sentence you start comparing the two.

He isn't good on defense, doesn't need to be, and everyone knows that.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

You said build a Stanley Cup winner. Not play in one this year. He will continue to age and get experience. There are very few rookie centers that step in and do not struggle defensively, especially an 18 year old rookie. Yet, they seem to figure it out as they mature.

Build a team to win a cup this year. I thought that would be obvious considering this is a discussion about the Calder trophy, which is only for this year

Then you say Fabri vs Bedard isn't a fair comparison, and in the next sentence you start comparing the two.

Well yeah, this is a discussion about the Calder, where we are comparing the top rookies. Just because its not a fair comparison because of age doesn't mean you can't still compare them.

 

[rynryn]

point still stands: offense is sexier than defense so no matter how proficient the D is at defense he won't get as many likes as the forward. just accept. it's the only way.

 

[ello]

I’d argue that most fans and GMs of contending teams would rather add Bedard than Faber for a playoff run.

 

[Ajex12x]

Build a team to win a cup this year. I thought that would be obvious considering this is a discussion about the Calder trophy, which is only for this year


Well yeah, this is a discussion about the Calder, where we are comparing the top rookies. Just because its not a fair comparison because of age doesn't mean you can't still compare them.

How would it be obvious? Building isn't the same as built. That's like plopping Bedard on a first place team instead of last.

Faber is great, and will be a great runner up.

 

[who_me?]

Bedard is great, skillset is obvious, I hope Chicago sucks for years though.

the Hawks will probably win another Cup before the Flyers

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

How would it be obvious? Building isn't the same as built. That's like plopping Bedard on a first place team instead of last.

I said "For me, I think of the Calder as "which rookie would I choose if I were trying to build a Stanley Cup winner?""

Why would that make sense to be for anything other than this year? It's an award for the best rookie, not the rookie with the brightest future.

Faber is great, and will be a great runner up.

I don't doubt it, voters have a history of just sorting by points.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

point still stands: offense is sexier than defense so no matter how proficient the D is at defense he won't get as many likes as the forward. just accept. it's the only way.

It's the skills that pay the bills

 

[WarriorofTime]

A .98 PPG forward is going to win the Calder over a .58 PPG defenseman every time, that's one of those things that you can just straight up categorically conclude.

 

[Ajex12x]

I said "For me, I think of the Calder as "which rookie would I choose if I were trying to build a Stanley Cup winner?""

Why would that make sense to be for anything other than this year? It's an award for the best rookie, not the rookie with the brightest future.

I don't doubt it, voters have a history of just sorting by points.

That's the point, it doesn't make sense. "Which rookie would I choose if I were trying to build a Stanley Cup winner?" Well, the Hawks are trying to build a cup winner so I must be lost in what you're trying to say. Maybe you mean what established team that has high chances of winning the cup would you want Bedard on as a 1C instead of what low level team that has no talent that you'd take Bedard to build around?

 

[Ajex12x]

A .98 PPG forward is going to win the Calder over a .58 PPG defenseman every time, that's one of those things that you can just straight up categorically conclude.

IMO I think they should split the calder and norris (offense/defense) to give D more credit

 

[WarriorofTime]

I said "For me, I think of the Calder as "which rookie would I choose if I were trying to build a Stanley Cup winner?""

This doesn't make sense, Faber isn't a Number 1 Defenseman on a Stanley Cup winner, your standard is vague/inconsistent. If you're talking about ability to slide and scale down in role for a potential Stanley Cup winner in a rookie year, how is that not Bedard, he's an offensive dyanmo, put him in a spot with great support and guys that can do the defensive/board work, etc. and in a world where the best players don't go to the worst team, he could help someone win a Cup in a perfect situation as good, if not better than Faber right now.

 

[quat]

I said "For me, I think of the Calder as "which rookie would I choose if I were trying to build a Stanley Cup winner?""

Why would that make sense to be for anything other than this year? It's an award for the best rookie, not the rookie with the brightest future.

I don't doubt it, voters have a history of just sorting by points.

I think you're living too much in your head on this one. My immediate response is to imagine a cup contender built over time, not in one year. Your line of thinking is far from obvious with that statement. It's confusing the issue as to who is having the best rookie campaign.

 

[cassac]

I think you're living too much in your head on this one. My immediate response is to imagine a cup contender built over time, not in one year. Your line of thinking is far from obvious with that statement. It's confusing the issue as to who is having the best rookie campaign.

That is what I thought.