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The Race for the Calder Trophy

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WhiskeyYerTheDevils said:
Building the best TEAM is about taking the best PLAYERS.

If already had a Slavin, Doughty, and Hedman, and lacked scoring, sure I'd take Bedard. He's an incredibly talented offensive player.

But all else equal, I would take the steady 2 way defender who can eat up minutes over the talented one dimensional scorer.
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Not really. you need certain players for different situations. No one wants a Patrick Kane playing shut down mins vs the other teams best players, you also wouldn't want him playing on your PK.

Put Bedard next to Kaprizov and Zucc instead of Ryan Donato and Philip Kurashev and he has 20 more points than he does right now.

roon said:
The Edmonton Oilers since drafting McDavid say hello. All the offensive talent in the world - can't play effective defense to save their lives. Thus - they lose...over and over again in the playoffs.
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Thats because they suck at building a team around McDavid. I'd still take McDavid over the Selke winners last year.
 
TLEH said:
You're not arguing in good faith if you don't look at the roster the Hawks are currently rolling. It legit could lose to an AHL All-Star team. We just snagged Megna off waivers and he was easily our 2nd or 3rd best D.

No one is having success on this roster. The PK the Rangers ran last night essentially just had a guy chat with Bedard.
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This is somewhat lost on people that don't actually watch the games. The lineup was bad to start the season and has gotten progressively worse as the injuries have taken a major toll. None of the players lost to injury are legitimate NHL level top-6 players, but they're legitimate NHL players - Taylor Hall, Andreas Athanasiou, Taylor Raddysh, Tyler Johnson, Joey Anderson and Anthony Beauvillier are not elite players but they know how to play the NHL game - they have been replaced by AHL players who have no business in an NHL lineup.

The team can't string more than 2 passes together and are constantly out played physically where they spend the majority of the game chasing the puck until eventually fishing it out of their net.

This may be hyperbole because I haven't done the research but I find it hard to believe that there has been another #1OA player who has had a worse lineup to play with.
 
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WhiskeyYerTheDevils said:
That's because the majority of voters don't actually watch the games of other teams. Nyquist has more points than Jaccob Slavin, would you take him over Slavin?


Well you'd probably be in the minority of NHL coaches.


I am providing my opinion in a thread about the best rookie. Sorry it upsets you.
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I dont think they are interested in an intellectually-honest debate; moreso getting in the last word, no matter how ridiculous lol
 
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Bedard is
tied for 6th in 5on5 goals in the NHL
tied for 21st in 5on5 pts in the NHL
tied for 34th in 5on5 SOG in the NHL

......playing with Ryan Donato (career high 31pts), and Philip Kurashev (career high 25pts in the NHL)


lol
 
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FLAMESFAN said:
Youngest All Star in NHL history.
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This would probably be a meaningful achievement if every team didn't get at least one All-Star by default. All Bedard had to was beat the 2nd best Hawk, which isn't a very high bar to beat currently. He could probably have 10 less points than now and still get that invite.

I doubt Seth Jones would put his 2022-23 All Star nomination on his resume.
 
Hawkaholic said:
Thats because they suck at building a team around McDavid. I'd still take McDavid over the Selke winners last year.
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The point was that defense wins championships - so your statement about not caring how well someone plays defensively is just silly. The defensive side of the game is vastly more important than scoring lacrosse goals and being able to walk a defenseman from time to time - but that's what shows up on youtube.

For building a team around - give me a prime Patrice Bergeron over a prime McDavid 10 days out of 10.
 
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roon said:
The point was that defense wins championships - so your statement about not caring how well someone plays defensively is just silly. The defensive side of the game is vastly more important than scoring lacrosse goals and being able to walk a defenseman from time to time - but that's what shows up on youtube.

For building a team around - give me a prime Patrice Bergeron over a prime McDavid 10 days out of 10.
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Sure, but Patrick Kane was an integral part of 3 Cups and didn't play a lick of defense. Why? Because they built a great team around him and used him properly.
 
Hawkaholic said:
Sure, but Patrick Kane was an integral part of 3 Cups and didn't play a lick of defense. Why? Because they built a great team around him and used him properly.
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Patrick Kane had nowhere near the impact that Toews - Keith - Seabrook and Crawford had on winning those cups. The team wasn't built around Kane....that team would have won cups if they didnt have Patty Cakes.
 
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Repeating this point again in this thread. Bedard, in the month of December, was involved in over 45% of his team's goals. That is THIRD BEST in the entire league during that time, only being beaten out by MacKinnon and Kucherov.

If you come in third in anything league-wide, only losing to those two, you are doing something right. Especially if you're a rookie.
 
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Dust said:
Maybe decent was not the right word... does not waiver fodder count?
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That had nothing to do with Kaprizov and everything to do with terrible options outside of Ek to play center.
Steel didn't even play that much with Kap in the end... yet Steel kept playing elsewhere in the lineup because of crap options that should also have been waiver fodder.
 
CallMeShaft said:
Repeating this point again in this thread. Bedard, in the month of December, was involved in over 45% of his team's goals. That is THIRD BEST in the entire league during that time, only being beaten out by MacKinnon and Kucherov.

If you come in third in anything league-wide, only losing to those two, you are doing something right. Especially if you're a rookie.
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Well when your team has only scored 88 goals in 38 games with Bedard on the top line and all PP1 time he can handle he's got really good odd's to be involved in his teams goals. The kid has been given every opportunity to succeed - him realizing at least some success shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
 
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roon said:
Well when your team has only scored 88 goals in 38 games with Bedard on the top line and all PP1 time he can handle he's got really good odd's to be involved in his teams goals. The kid has been given every opportunity to succeed - him realizing at least some success shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
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Well at least we know there's no shortage of salt in Minnesota these days. You might find some flavor if you temper it back a little ;)
 
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WhiskeyYerTheDevils said:
That's an exaggeration. I think he would have more points but probably closer to 5-10.
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Not at all an exaggeration. He has 33pts playing with scrubs. Literally no one to pass him the puck, make space for him, or finish off the multiple chances he has set up that haven't been finished by scrubs. Not to mention, a PP that can't score a goal. Imagine him with a competent PP? He has 1 PPG because teams just put a player on him the entire time giving him zero space because they have no one else that can score.

roon said:
Well when your team has only scored 88 goals in 38 games with Bedard on the top line and all PP1 time he can handle he's got really good odd's to be involved in his teams goals. The kid has been given every opportunity to succeed - him realizing at least some success shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
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It's pretty surprising he has had the success he has had considering who he plays with every night.
 
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Dust said:
Well at least we know there's no shortage of salt in Minnesota these days. You might find some flavor if you temper it back a little ;)
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How is it salt to suggest that a player that is immediately provided top line minutes and all the PP1 time he wants is going to have pretty good odd's to be involved in a majority of his teams offense?
 
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Tough game for Bedard tonight. Hope he's okay, he needs to be more careful trying to cut through multiple defenders. He's not big enough nor fast enough to get away with that forever. He had a few close calls this year.
 
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roon said:
Patrick Kane had nowhere near the impact that Toews - Keith - Seabrook and Crawford had on winning those cups. The team wasn't built around Kane....that team would have won cups if they didnt have Patty Cakes.
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The Conn Smythe winner for one of them had nowhere near the impact as the other players. Got it.
 
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roon said:
Well when your team has only scored 88 goals in 38 games with Bedard on the top line and all PP1 time he can handle he's got really good odd's to be involved in his teams goals. The kid has been given every opportunity to succeed - him realizing at least some success shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
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Ah yes, being on the worst team in the league is 'being given every opportunity to succeed.' C'mon.
 
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I think it's broken teeth for Bedard... gonna be a very tough dentist visit but he'll be fine (sucks for the "having all your real teeth" brag is gonna be gone though but thats hockey) If it's a broken jaw, this Calder race just became wide open cuz he'll be out a while if it's that.
 
roon said:
The Edmonton Oilers since drafting McDavid say hello. All the offensive talent in the world - can't play effective defense to save their lives. Thus - they lose...over and over again in the playoffs.
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Didnt the Wild have a pretty defensive core and kept on losing out early in the playoffs every single year?

Bedard is generational. Faber aint.
 
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