Speculation: The Quest to sign Lindholm: Part II

[wintersej]

See, I don't see how that could possibly be the case.

An offer sheet is a promise. A written agreement. You're giving the player a piece of paper that says, if he plays for you, he will make a certain amount of money. The player is then obligated to play for you if he signs it. How is that not a contract? The only difference here is that the player's current team can match the contract offer, and that promise then applies to them. A team can't send an offer sheet to a player, and then retract it after the player has signed it. It's enforceable. Legal. Binding. That's the definition of a contract.

I think people are getting hung up on the name, and are missing the intent behind an offer sheet. It's a certain type of contract, but it's a contract.

I don't think you are following him. It's not a contract unless both parties are signed. You can give as many players as you want OS to sign, but only one can get signed at a time.

 

[puckluck33*]

So, you mean offer sheet both?

The number of teams that have the cap space and picks to offer sheet either is very low to begin with.

No i said either Rakell or Lindholm one of them,Anaheim might let the one player go and take the compensation draft picks,and then sign the other one.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I know the Canucks cannot fit the cap but hows this for the value?

Derek Dorsett, Brock Boeser, Olli Juolevi
for
Rickard Rakell, Hampus Lindholm


Anaheim gets a veteran forward plus huge savings with two players on ELC in exchange for their expensive RFAs. Kind of the mystery box approach but if the budget is that tight might not be a bad move.

Canucks bridge the age gap with a 23 and 22 year old in return for their top 2 prospects, both help expedite the rebuild on the fly.

Pretty sure that Anaheim, Can do better then this for both Lindholm and Rakell. And neither are going anywhere.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Fowler for Trouba?

Anaheim gets the space to sign their RFA's.

Winnipeg gets that young LHD they want.

Anaheim can then trade Trouba to the highest bidder.

A base at least.

So BM trades Fowler for essentially nothing, He can't afford to sign Trouba considering that he will cost far more then Fowler. And Anaheim doesn't need D so it would've to be a decent forward prospect so why would BM do this.

 

[sabresfan129103]

So if Risto got 5.4, what are we looking at for Lindholm? 6-6.5?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

And what team can afford to do this now?

Carolina or New Jersey, Just doubt that either will be willing to surrender the picks, That it would take though.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

So if Risto got 5.4, what are we looking at for Lindholm? 6-6.5?

Yup heard that he's seeking slightly more then $6 million over 8 years, So yeah within 6-6.5 i would assume.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Does any one know how far apart Anaheim and Lindholm are? Heard that it might be within $1 million or so.

 

[Starat327]

See, I don't see how that could possibly be the case.

An offer sheet is a promise. A written agreement. You're giving the player a piece of paper that says, if he plays for you, he will make a certain amount of money. The player is then obligated to play for you if he signs it. How is that not a contract? The only difference here is that the player's current team can match the contract offer, and that promise then applies to them. A team can't send an offer sheet to a player, and then retract it after the player has signed it. It's enforceable. Legal. Binding. That's the definition of a contract.

I think people are getting hung up on the name, and are missing the intent behind an offer sheet. It's a certain type of contract, but it's a contract.

I'm with Sojourn on this one. The player is offered a contract that, if signed, the team can choose to match/honor or not. Whether they do or not, that player is then bound to that contract.

Also have to believe the NHL wouldn't allow two to go out from one team at the same time. Let's say team X offers both Rakell and Lindholm a contract, they sign, and Anaheim doesn't match. That's a headache for the NHL to work out. Do you defer the picks of the second signed contract to the following year? Is that really fair for the team that just lost two players who'll likely make the other team much better in the next two years? It's unknown territory for sure, and I think the NHL would prefer to keep it that way.

 

[Maukkis]

So if Risto got 5.4, what are we looking at for Lindholm? 6-6.5?

Probably. Forsberg, another star from the '12 draft class got 6x6, and I'm assuming that Lindholm wants at least as much.

You have to give your stud elite franchise top pairing #1 players what they want, that's the reality. See Ekblad, Aaron.

 

[gilfaizon]

Does any one know how far apart Anaheim and Lindholm are? Heard that it might be within $1 million or so.

Heard about 500k. Don't think Lindholm will get the 6 million he wants. But that could mean he doesn't end up signing at all. 5.75 has been my guess for quite some time.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Probably. Forsberg, another star from the '12 draft class got 6x6, and I'm assuming that Lindholm wants at least as much.

You have to give your stud elite franchise top pairing #1 players what they want, that's the reality. See Ekblad, Aaron.

The problem is, Lindholm seems to want #1 money or close to it, yet hasn't proven to be on that level yet. He hasn't played a full consistent year as our most counted upon dman.

We wouldn't be paying him based on performance as a #1 dman, but on potential.

 

[xxreact9]

So if Risto got 5.4, what are we looking at for Lindholm? 6-6.5?

Best guess is BM is offering around 5.5M using Risto/Rielly as reference, where their camp is asking for 6.5-7M using Ekblad as a reference. It's been said many times they are not even close to a deal.

I expect eventually a ~6-6.25m deal to get signed. At this point, Lindholm isn't helping himself by not playing in the league. And he's losing money.

 

[gretskidoo]

The problem is, Lindholm seems to want #1 money or close to it, yet hasn't proven to be on that level yet. He hasn't played a full consistent year as our most counted upon dman.

We wouldn't be paying him based on performance as a #1 dman, but on potential.

Low-end #1 money is 7+ or at the very least 6.5+ these days. Aren't they down to 6+ for a while now?

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Low-end #1 money is 7+ or at the very least 6.5+ these days. Aren't they down to 6+ for a while now?

We don't know the exact figures, but Bob McK made it sounded like Lindholm was asking for 6-6.5M long term and the Ducks are pushing for below 6.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Heard about 500k. Don't think Lindholm will get the 6 million he wants. But that could mean he doesn't end up signing at all. 5.75 has been my guess for quite some time.

Okay thanks wasn't sure if it was 500k or 1 million any ways pretty sure that Duck fans hope that he resigns here quickly and get him in the lineup.

 

[xxreact9]

The problem is, Lindholm seems to want #1 money or close to it, yet hasn't proven to be on that level yet. He hasn't played a full consistent year as our most counted upon dman.

We wouldn't be paying him based on performance as a #1 dman, but on potential.

Therein lies the trick, as he is a RFA now not later .

But honestly, 2nd half of the season and playoffs he was playing like a true legitimate #1 hands down. That's a solid 50 game stretch of his most recent play. It's easy to point to the Beauchemin adjustment and the Ducks terrible start as a team.

It's not really too much potential based. But I agree the consistency hasn't been shown and that part is a bit of gamble. But at the same time if he reaches his ceiling the Ducks are saving a lot of money. His ceiling is an 8M player where his floor is probably a 5M player at this point. You can play around with likelihood of reaching those points, but in any case 6M is a pretty good deal for the Ducks. Pushing closer to 7M becomes not so great at all, but still has a solid chance to be a fair deal. It's just hardly justifiable by their camp given only 1 player (Ekblad) in history of ELC defenders has gotten paid so much so suddenly.

 

[Maukkis]

The problem is, Lindholm seems to want #1 money or close to it, yet hasn't proven to be on that level yet. He hasn't played a full consistent year as our most counted upon dman.

We wouldn't be paying him based on performance as a #1 dman, but on potential.

That's not my problem. I would ask for #1 money too, if I was that elite Norris stud machine of a player that is advertised here. Heck, Lindholm would be stupid not to do so. If there happened to be cap problems or a budget in the way - too bad. There's a ton of other teams to which you can move to and shine there. See Trouba, Jacob.

 

[xxreact9]

Low-end #1 money is 7+ or at the very least 6.5+ these days. Aren't they down to 6+ for a while now?

I think this is a good point to bring up, our perception of what 5m, 6m, and 7m dollar cap hits needs to change as the cap rises and the league changes.

PK: 9m
Weber: 7.857m
Byfuglien: 7.6m
Suter: 7.538m
Letang: 7.25m
Doughty: 7.0m
Phaneuf: 7.0m
Chara: 6.917m
Seabrook: 6.875m
Giordano: 6.75m
Pietrangelo: 6.5m
Karlsson: 6.5m
Yandle: 6.35m
Green: 6.0m
Boychuk: 6.0m


Hmm. 6 for lindholm doesn't sound too bad anymore does it. He's already better than many players on this list. Look at the bottom 3 bold, all signed RECENTLY in today's market. Look at the defenders getting paid 6 million. Lindholm is better then them already, never mind his ceiling.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

That's not my problem. I would ask for #1 money too, if I was that elite Norris stud machine of a player that is advertised here. Heck, Lindholm would be stupid not to do so. If there happened to be cap problems or a budget in the way - too bad. There's a ton of other teams to which you can move to and shine there. See Trouba, Jacob.

No one said it was your problem, I was pointing out the sticking point in the negotiations. It's no so much budget/cap related as it is Murray not wanting to pay star money for a player who hasn't reached a star level as of yet.

I think this is a good point to bring up, our perception of what 5m, 6m, and 7m dollar cap hits needs to change as the cap rises and the league changes.

PK: 9m
Weber: 7.857m
Byfuglien: 7.6m
Suter: 7.538m
Letang: 7.25m
Doughty: 7.0m
Phaneuf: 7.0m
Chara: 6.917m
Seabrook: 6.875m
Giordano: 6.75m
Pietrangelo: 6.5m
Karlsson: 6.5m
Yandle: 6.35m
Green: 6.0m
Boychuk: 6.0m


Hmm. 6 for lindholm doesn't sound too bad anymore does it. He's already better than many players on this list. Look at the bottom 3 bold, all signed RECENTLY in today's market. Look at the defenders getting paid 6 million. Lindholm is better then them already, never mind his ceiling.

There UFA contracts there that aren't relevant for comparison. Which of those deals was signed straight off of an ELC before the player had consistently played at a #1 level?

 

[Rebels57]

Umm, WHY the hell hasn't Murray signed Lindholm yet? Make whatever trade is necessary and sign your best defensemen. Jesus Christ.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

If Lindholm ends up being traded it would be wise for Anaheim to take futures in return. I think they're team are set to head downhill already and adding aging players wouldn't really be a great decision.

Of course the wisest decision of all would be to keep Lindholm, but IF they decide to trade him (I don't think they do) I feel youth is the way to look.

 

[gretskidoo]

There UFA contracts there that aren't relevant for comparison. Which of those deals was signed straight off of an ELC before the player had consistently played at a #1 level?

Worth mentioning that out of the 7 bolded players, you have 4 guys that are nowhere near #1 defensemen and out of the 3 that are actually #1s, Pietrangelo and Suter were signed 3 and 4 years ago.

Defensemen are expensive now, even as RFAs.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Worth mentioning that out of the 7 bolded players, you have 4 guys that are nowhere near #1 defensemen and out of the 3 that are actually #1s, Pietrangelo and Suter were signed 3 and 4 years ago.

Defensemen are expensive now, even as RFAs.

So why not use other RFAs who were in a similar position when signing their deals? Jones, Ristolainen, Rielly etc.

Suter isn't any sort of comparable here, he was the top UFA on the market, and was already proven as a #1. Completely different scenario.

 

[tony d]

Yeah, they got to get Lindholm signed and quick.