GDT: The Pittsburgher Thread - Training Camp is Upon Us

[K Fleur]

So what is a game manager then?

A manager of games.

 

[Al Smith]

Ben Roethlisberger

Playoff record: 13-9
Home playoff record: 6-5
Road playoff record: 5-3
Non-wild card playoff record: 10-5 ******
30-30-30 seasons: 0
Playoff points per game average: 25.73
Super Bowl starts: 3
Super Bowl rings: 2


here some other "non franchise QBs" and their playoff stats.
all hall of famers or soon to be

Drew Brees

Playoff record: 9-9
Home playoff record: 7-4
Road playoff record: 1-5
Non-wild card playoff record: 5-5
30-30-30 seasons: 1
Playoff points per game average: 26.55
Super Bowl starts: 1
Super Bowl rings: 1


Peyton Manning

Playoff record: 14-13
Home playoff record: 10-6
Road playoff record: 2-5
Non-wild card playoff record: 11-9
30-30-30 seasons: 0
Playoff points per game average: 22.15
Super Bowl starts: 4
Super Bowl rings: 2

Aaron Rodgers

Playoff record: 11-9
Home playoff record: 5-3
Road playoff record: 5-6
Non-wild card playoff record: 7-7
30-30-30 seasons: 0
Playoff points per game average: 28.15
Super Bowl starts: 1
Super Bowl rings: 1

Brett Favre

Playoff record: 13-11
Home playoff record: 9-3
Road playoff record: 3-7
Non-wild card playoff record: 8-8
30-30-30 seasons: 1
Playoff points per game average: 24.83
Super Bowl starts: 2
Super Bowl rings: 1


Steve Young

Playoff record: 8-6
Home playoff record: 7-3
Road playoff record: 0-3
Non-wild card playoff record: 6-6
30-30-30 seasons: 1
Playoff points per game average: 26.93
Super Bowl starts: 1
Super Bowl rings: 1
****can't win on the road****

Dan Marino

Playoff record: 8-10
Home playoff record: 7-3
Road playoff record: 1-6
Non-wild card playoff record: 4-8
30-30-30 seasons: 0
Playoff points per game average: 20.50
Super Bowl starts: 1
Super Bowl rings: 0


Dan Fouts

Playoff record: 3-4
Home playoff record: 1-2
Road playoff record: 2-2
Non-wild card playoff record: 2-4* (*first round of 1982 playoffs considered wild card)
30-30-30 seasons: 0
Playoff points per game average: 21.86
Super Bowl starts: 0
Super Bowl rings: 0

Warren Moon

Playoff record: 3-7
Home playoff record: 2-3
Road playoff record: 1-4
Non-wild card playoff record: 0-4
30-30-30 seasons: 0
Playoff points per game average: 20.70
Super Bowl starts: 0
Super Bowl rings: 0


Jim Kelly

Playoff record: 9-8
Home playoff record: 8-1
Road playoff record: 1-3
Non-wild card playoff record: 8-7
30-30-30 seasons: 0
Playoff points per game average: 26.18
Super Bowl starts: 4
Super Bowl rings: 0


and some others that might not get the call for the hall
Philip Rivers

Playoff record: 5-7
Home playoff record: 2-2
Road playoff record: 3-5
Non-wild card playoff record: 1-6
30-30-30 seasons: 0
Playoff points per game average: 21.50
Super Bowl starts: 0
Super Bowl rings: 0


Matt Ryan

Playoff record: 4-6
Home playoff record: 3-2
Road playoff record: 1-3
Non-wild card playoff record: 3-4
30-30-30 seasons: 0
Playoff points per game average: 24.50
Super Bowl starts: 1
Super Bowl rings: 0


Russell Wilson

Playoff record: 9-7
Home playoff record: 5-1
Road playoff record: 3-5
Non-wild card playoff record: 5-5
30-30-30 seasons: 0
Playoff points per game average: 24.13
Super Bowl starts: 2
Super Bowl rings: 1

Andrew Luck

Playoff record: 4-4
Home playoff record: 2-0
Road playoff record: 2-4
Non-wild card playoff record: 1-3
30-30-30 seasons: 0
Playoff points per game average: 20.88
Super Bowl starts: 0
Super Bowl rings: 0


NFL QB playoff records, Roethlisberger, Brady, Manning

You can probably move Wilson into the HOF category. And Rivers too from what I've read. I would disagree, but I don't get a vote.

 

[T1K]

So what is a game manager then?

Alex Smith is the prime example of this era

 

[ChaosAgent]

Eli Manning's HOF Case is: "Yes we are well aware that he was the definition of average. But he went on 2 Great SB runs and Beat the Belichick/Brady Patriots."

Pretty much all the regular season numbers favor Alex Smith. Gimme Alex Smith over Eli Manning unless I'm facing the Pats in the Super Bowl.

 

[Al Smith]

Eli Manning's HOF Case is: "Yes we are well aware that he was the definition of average. But he went on 2 Great SB runs and Beat the Belichick/Brady Patriots."

Pretty much all the regular season numbers favor Alex Smith. Gimme Alex Smith over Eli Manning unless I'm facing the Pats in the Super Bowl.

You're obviously not a Giants Fanboy.

10 Reasons NY Giants’ Eli Manning Belongs in the Hall of Fame

 

[ChaosAgent]

You're obviously not a Giants Fanboy.

10 Reasons NY Giants’ Eli Manning Belongs in the Hall of Fame

I mean, no I'm not.

Eli:
117-117 record
1.5/1 TD/INT
7 Y/A
84 Rating

Smith:
99-67 record
1.8/1 TD/INT
6.9 Y/A
87 Rating

Eli also won 0 playoff games outside his 2 SBs. He will get in because of those.

 

[OnMyOwn]

I also don’t think you lead the league a few times in passing yardage if you are a “game manager”. Ben was one for like the first 3 years of his career, throwing the ball 20 times and calling it a day.

That ended a long time ago and offenses have been built around him slinging it to receivers and receiving RB’s. Definitely not game managing.

 

[TimmyD]

So what is a game manager then?

Alex Smith. A guy who rarely takes chances downfield and will even pass up open chances downfield in favor of short, safe routes or check downs

 

[bigdaddyk88]

It’s funny how the narrative is Ben will be better if we fix the running game and stop having him throw it 35 times a game. He has lead the league in attempts since bell left and his numbers in the playoffs don’t lead to wins unless they take the ball out of his hands. However he isn’t a game manager

 

[Al Smith]

I mean, no I'm not.

Eli:
117-117 record
1.5/1 TD/INT
7 Y/A
84 Rating

Smith:
99-67 record
1.8/1 TD/INT
6.9 Y/A
87 Rating

Eli also won 0 playoff games outside his 2 SBs. He will get in because of those.

Don't really care about Eli or whether he gets in the HOF, but yes, he will. Re Counterargument t0 career record, see Reason #1 in link I posted. Re 0 playoff games outside 2 SB, see Reasons 2-5 and 9. Plus, you can't forget #8, he was a HOF teammate.

Re Alex Smith, who I always liked, you forgot to put up his 2-7 playoff record versus Eli's 8-4 (yes, the 8 came in two years). Smith was the kind of QB I would always think, I like this guy, lots of tools, accurate, doesn't make a lot of huge mistakes, won't crush you with stupid decisions, etc., but he's never going to lead a team to a championship.

 

[T1K]

Eli Manning's HOF Case is: "Yes we are well aware that he was the definition of average. But he went on 2 Great SB runs and Beat the Belichick/Brady Patriots."

Pretty much all the regular season numbers favor Alex Smith. Gimme Alex Smith over Eli Manning unless I'm facing the Pats in the Super Bowl.

Wow. You’re really not good at evaluating QBs. Are you doing a bit?

 

[ChaosAgent]

Wow. You’re really not good at evaluating QBs. Are you doing a bit?

Yes, I'm doing a bit.

 

[tread102]

Guess you had a little nap from 2010-15 when people were calling for Crosby’s C and saying he was a one hit wonder?

It wasn’t DB fault… it was Crosby’s fault because he was a shitty leader and wasn’t an all time great.

Weird what happened when the fraud was removed.

Almost like bad coaches can f*** things up for even the best of players.

how bad was DB? I live in Charlotte I was shocked when I heard he is an assistant coach with the Charlotte checkers. That’s one heck of a fall.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Hoodie doesn’t do anything with the offense he relies on josh Daniels. He and his son focus on the defense. Josh did work with Brady to build the offense it’s why they drafted Jones cause they can run the same offense with him.
So you want coaches to bench there 35 40 million dollar players? Pete carrol deals with the defense and they let Wilson cook and guess what they have the same amount of playoff wins as us. In fact they are identical as tje QB grew and took on more money they lost many good players.
Brees works tirelessly with Peyton and they have 3 playoff win in 10 years

You talk so much BS it’s actually comical.

BB relies on Josh Mcdaniels? Just man up and admit you don’t understand the game.

BB is the one who has designed the offense for the Patriots and made it quite versatile to fit how he wants to attack a particular teams weakness.

There are only really three types of systems in the NFL and the Pats have been running the Erhardt-Perkins offense since Hoodie took over the Pats and it has evolved in astounding ways.

The way Hoodie has adapted this system to be so versatile on a week by week basis is actually quite impressive if you actually understand Xs and Os.

Hoodie has eloquently married terminology and technique from the Erhardt-Perkins offense, which for instance allowed them to run the no huddle with deadly efficiency.

All the playcalling runs through Hoodie as well. He is a complete control freak that lays out the offensive game plan and routinely over rides calls during the game.

So rambling on about Josh Daniels just tells me you have no clue - sorry to be blunt.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

how bad was DB? I live in Charlotte I was shocked when I heard he is an assistant coach with the Charlotte checkers. That’s one heck of a fall.

Bad. I don’t hate myself enough to re-live it.

Let’s just say they got to their game under DB and scored goals only he could see.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

How would Bill Belichick fill the void on offense if Browns hire Josh McDaniels?
bill himself says he gives some ideas but 90 to 95 percent of the offense his Daniel. He works with his son on defense

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

How would Bill Belichick fill the void on offense if Browns hire Josh McDaniels?
bill himself says he gives some ideas but 90 to 95 percent of the offense his Daniel. He works with his son on defense

Keep digging yourself deeper.

BB offensive roots go back to his days under Shipp, who taught him about keeping schemes simple while constantly adjusting.

This is exactly why Hoodie uses the Erhardt-Perkins system - it keeps terminology and formations simple, but it can be run in countless ways and can be changed more easily from week to week (well if a coach knows what he’s doing unlike say, Tomlin).

Pats can have up to 1000 plays per season in their offense which allows it to be so mind bogglingly flexible (imagine Tomlin trying to fake his way though an offense that requires actually being a master at Xs and Os like this).

This is and always has been BB offense, predicated on lessons he learned in his youth under Shipp.

And right in your article pretty much seals the deal about what I’ve been harping on:

His reputation for years has been as a defensive guru, but he is a head coach in the truest sense. He told reporters late in the season that he continued to meet with his quarterbacks regularly this year, and a day spent at Patriots organized team activities or training camp would provide proof of the fact that he coaches every position on the roster.

What was that you wrote earlier about how BR shouldn’t need his coach to help him?

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Tomlin doesn’t try to be an offense of coach. BB can have all the roots in offense in the world however he doesn’t call plays and hasn’t for a while.
Cam himself said he worked with his OC and QB coach to build the offense.
Canada says his offense is simple. We know he will ask Ben to operate out of the pistol instead of shotgun we will have more outside zone runs more sweeps more counters. We have seen both Haskins and Mason you play action in pre season. Motion will be constant for the offense. Just need Ben to get better at reading defenses with his back turned and move his head on rpo

 

[lastcupever75]

It’s funny how the narrative is Ben will be better if we fix the running game and stop having him throw it 35 times a game. He has lead the league in attempts since bell left and his numbers in the playoffs don’t lead to wins unless they take the ball out of his hands. However he isn’t a game manager

you are truly lost on this issue .

is brady or rodgers a game manager cause they improved their runs games in recent years?
the pack already had jones and used a 2nd round pick on dillon,
pats used a 1st on sony. tampa brought in a former 4th overall pick with ronald jones on the roster

guess what, there's 2 kind of plays you can plan on offense,a run or a pass. most teams want to ability to do both well

perhaps the best model of the term gunslinger, peyton manning, had backs like edge james and joe addai to run the ball when they needed to.

just last year KC drafted a RB in the 1st round.

 

[lastcupever75]

You talk so much BS it’s actually comical.

Just man up and admit you don’t understand the game.

.

I think we can use this in every reply to him

 

[bigdaddyk88]

you are truly lost on this issue .

is brady or rodgers a game manager cause they improved their runs games in recent years?
the pack already had jones and used a 2nd round pick on dillon,
pats used a 1st on sony. tampa brought in a former 4th overall pick with ronald jones on the roster

guess what, there's 2 kind of plays you can plan on offense,a run or a pass. most teams want to ability to do both well

perhaps the best model of the term gunslinger, peyton manning, had backs like edge james and joe addai to run the ball when they needed to.

just last year KC drafted a RB in the 1st round.

Brady demands play action in his offense and Rodgers just had an incredible mvp year and was 23-0 tds to interceptions using play action. They both understand the importance of balance on offense. They are capable of getting it done in the playoffs regardless of the talent.
Ben numbers drop off dramatically when he throws the ball more than 31 times. I know he says he is a gunslinger but he isn’t successful doing that in the playoffs. Ben doesn’t want to run the ball he prefers short passing game

 

[Night Shift]

Brady demands play action in his offense and Rodgers just had an incredible mvp year and was 23-0 tds to interceptions using play action. They both understand the importance of balance on offense. They are capable of getting it done in the playoffs regardless of the talent.
Ben numbers drop off dramatically when he throws the ball more than 31 times. I know he says he is a gunslinger but he isn’t successful doing that in the playoffs. Ben doesn’t want to run the ball he prefers short passing game

Just man up and admit you don’t understand the game.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Tomlin doesn’t try to be an offense of coach. BB can have all the roots in offense in the world however he doesn’t call plays and hasn’t for a while.
Cam himself said he worked with his OC and QB coach to build the offense.
Canada says his offense is simple. We know he will ask Ben to operate out of the pistol instead of shotgun we will have more outside zone runs more sweeps more counters. We have seen both Haskins and Mason you play action in pre season. Motion will be constant for the offense. Just need Ben to get better at reading defenses with his back turned and move his head on rpo

You truly don’t know what you are taking about:

The way it’s structured here is, I’ll take responsibility for all the plays that are called. I have the final say on it. If I don’t want to run the play, then I can call it off – that’s my right as a head coach. Any of the bad ones, you can blame me for because ultimately I could change them if I wanted to."

During a game, I talk to all the play callers. First of all, we go into the game with a plan of how we want to try to start things -- believe it or not. I know everybody doesn’t think that’s the way it is, but we actually talk about, ‘This is how we want to start the game and these are the calls that we would make in this situation, second-and-long, third-and-short, third-and-medium, red area, goal line,’ and then, after the game starts to unfold, then you kind of say ‘OK, well we want to sort of stay with the way we mapped this out, or they’re doing this and these don’t look as good, these look better or maybe we have to make an adjustment and say, ‘Well we can run these plays but if this happens we have to do something else,’ that type of thing. We talk about that over the course of the game.

What I try to do as a head coach, and it’s one of the advantages, honestly, of being a head coach, is that you can go where you want to go," said Belichick. "If you want to work with this group, you can work with this group; if you want to work with that group, you can work with that group. So that’s kind of nice. If there’s anything that I want to try to convey to a particular player or to a particular group, then it doesn’t make a difference whether it’s new guys, old guys, whoever they are. I have no problem going into that meeting room, calling him into my office, talking to [him], sitting down with him and trying to tell them, ‘Look, this is what I think is important this week or this is what I think you need to do better or this is what we’re looking for from you or this is something that’s going to change and here’s what’s going to happen

The NE offense is run by Hoodie, using the philosophy he learned under Shipp in the 70s, and has been since he came to NE.

A great coach handles both sides of the ball, but Tomlin can’t help BR because he can’t even handle coaching the defensive side competently.

This is why the Steelers always look confused on both sides of the ball every playoffs.

This is what it looks like when a coach is a fraud and being out game planned every time.

It’s not a coincidence it keeps happening, it’s not a one off situation, it’s the pattern of a fraud.

So once again if a guy like Crosby couldn’t overcome the utter incompetence of his coach, how in the f*** would BR ever be able to do it? Especially in a league where game planning is critical to success.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

The New England offense is so simple that without Brady Bill has a losing record. If he was such a genius he should have been able to make the playoffs last season with Cam. Instead they are the 3rd best team in their division.

 

[xlm34]

The New England offense is so simple that without Brady Bill has a losing record. If he was such a genius he should have been able to make the playoffs last season with Cam. Instead they are the 3rd best team in their division.

Man I don’t disagree with some of the things you’ve said but Bill is the best there is. It sucks to admit but there isn’t a coach that comes close to him right now.