OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Killed Kenny!

[ChaosAgent]

Tbf, given this team's record in the last X games, I'm not sure he's wrong that the turnover battle is crucial. They're winning a ton of games through it.

The question is whether they can ever develop enough talent to win the turnover battle against good teams, and also be good enough to take advantage of it against said good teams.

Bingo. It's a good way to scrap/claw and grind out wins against 75% of the league in the 4th quarter. But when you face the upper echelon it won't cut it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Bingo. It's a good way to scrap/claw and grind out wins against 75% of the league in the 4th quarter. But when you face the upper echelon it won't cut it.

The question is who is the upper echelon in the afc right now we would play Miami in the playoffs who have 3 playoff wins in 25 years. Teams know to press the wr and throw off Tua timing. Would you be scared to go to jacksonville heck i would take my chances with playoff lamar

 

[ChaosAgent]

It's shocking that the Browns are still good despite this.
It's a franchise-ruining move but they've really coached up their OL and defense.

The question is who is the upper echelon in the afc right now we would play Miami in the playoffs who have 3 playoff wins in 25 years. Teams know to press the wr and throw off Tua timing. Would you be scared to go to jacksonville heck i would take my chances with playoff lamar

Josh Allen would crush us. Mahomes would pick us apart. And I don't care about 3/25 years for the Dolphins. They are a better team than us.

Playoff Lamar hasn't played Playoff Steelers. By that I mean the team that gave up a million yards to Baker Mayfield and Blake Bortles.
We would be underdogs to any of these teams handily.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

It's shocking that the Browns are still good despite this.
It's a franchise-ruining move but they've really coached up their OL and defense.


Josh Allen would crush us. Mahomes would pick us apart. And I don't care about 3/25 years for the Dolphins. They are a better team than us.

Playoff Lamar hasn't played Playoff Steelers. By that I mean the team that gave up a million yards to Baker Mayfield and Blake Bortles.
We would be underdogs to any of these teams handily.

Have you seen this year’s versions of Allen even our offense will drop 20 ok that defense and he will turn it over. I am putting a lot if faithin jpj but he shadows Diggs there no one else on Buffalo. Blake threw for 200 yards and a td. Baker did get 260 with 3 tds. Miami still has not beaten a team over 500 we have heck even maholmes has looked human because he only hzs Kelce and kelece is declining

 

[Peat]

Bingo. It's a good way to scrap/claw and grind out wins against 75% of the league in the 4th quarter. But when you face the upper echelon it won't cut it.

But can it be evolved?

I mean, I'm pretty critical of what Tomlin is doing. But stepping back and looking at it from a different angle -

He's teaching a lot of confidence and a lot about winning to a bunch of young players who could be part of the future here. There's no other way this set of players would be winning as much. And style of play isn't immutable. There is potentially a really good platform here if it can keep can getting better.

But can it get better? Can it evolve?

Forget the offensive side of the football. If he can get his hands on a couple of DBs better than Wallace/Peterson/Kazee/Neal this off-season, can he develop a secondary that actually shuts down plays as well as ballhawking? Or is the scheme incapable of doing that in the coaches' hands, regardless of player talent?

 

[Captain Hook]

Source: Steelers LB Alexander has torn Achilles

Steelers inside linebacker Kwon Alexander suffered a season-ending torn Achilles on Sunday, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter.

www.espn.com

Damn, that sucks. The middle linebacker position has felt cursed ever since Shazier went down.

I wasn't too worried when Holcomb went down because we had another all around type of ILB waiting in the wings in Alexander but now both all around types are gone and we're left with a couple of thumpers in Roberts and Robinson. Things are going to be very tough in pass coverage going forward.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

For the Warren is a feature back crowd:

Last two games - 26 carries 189 yard 7.3 YPC

 

[ChaosAgent]

But can it be evolved?

I mean, I'm pretty critical of what Tomlin is doing. But stepping back and looking at it from a different angle -

He's teaching a lot of confidence and a lot about winning to a bunch of young players who could be part of the future here. There's no other way this set of players would be winning as much. And style of play isn't immutable. There is potentially a really good platform here if it can keep can getting better.

But can it get better? Can it evolve?

Forget the offensive side of the football. If he can get his hands on a couple of DBs better than Wallace/Peterson/Kazee/Neal this off-season, can he develop a secondary that actually shuts down plays as well as ballhawking? Or is the scheme incapable of doing that in the coaches' hands, regardless of player talent?

That's a good hypothetical.
1) But from a different angle: what if TJ Watt misses 6-8 games, or regresses with age?
2) What if Chris Boswell goes from automatic to unreliable? (see 2018, this happened before)

I think we are so reliant on those 2 players to win us games right now, and they are both volatile. Getting outgained and winning tight games/the turnover battle/the kicker battle forever is not sustainable.

To be a little pedantic, if you believe that Kenny Pickett would be winning less if he played less conservatively, then you must have a low opinion of him. Which is maybe correct, but at some point we should test his talent level. The current team + 2 great secondary players still isn't going anywhere.

 

[Peat]

That's a good hypothetical.
1) But from a different angle: what if TJ Watt misses 6-8 games, or regresses with age?
2) What if Chris Boswell goes from automatic to unreliable? (see 2018, this happened before)

I think we are so reliant on those 2 players to win us games right now, and they are both volatile. Getting outgained and winning tight games/the turnover battle/the kicker battle forever is not sustainable.

To be a little pedantic, if you believe that Kenny Pickett would be winning less if he played less conservatively, then you must have a low opinion of him. Which is maybe correct, but at some point we should test his talent level. The current team + 2 great secondary players still isn't going anywhere.

I can't imagine a better record for this group of players than 6-3. There's only four teams better than that in the NFL. In terms simply of winning games, they are performing to their absolute limit.

So the extent to which it's sustainable doesn't bother me, and it's for me less a low opinion of Pickett than a belief it would be a hell of a lot easier for this team to do worse than do the same if they replayed the season. It's also a reflection of a v. low opinion of the OL's performance this season, the WR/TE injuries and, yes, the fact Pickett doesn't look like a future elite gunslinger however you slice it. Although even the potentially elite future gunslingers tend to crap themselves a time or two while figuring it out. Stroud looks exactly the sort of guy you wish we'd drafted, but he didn't against Carolina.

The question I'm angling at is there a route to improving the team's trajectory away from a bunch of guys + 2 great secondary guys through what Tomlin's doing? Or do we have to at some point stop doing it Tomlin's way and tell Pickett "be him"? I've erred very much to the later, but I'm feeling devil's advocate.

 

[Andy99]

OMG…if true, the coaching on this team…lol

 

[metalan2]

Pickett had one pass over the middle today, one.

Offensive play calling is as bad as ever. The fact they throw to pickens like 3 times a game would have gotten anyone else fired by now.

Pickett is also an objectively mediocre quarterback who has horrible vision of the field and slow decision making.

Offensive line is world better with Jones and Moore playing, but I wish they were switched.

Steelers need to win 1 out of 2 these next 2 weeks to stay in this.

 

[Rossi Rat]

People reallllly need to stop attacking MM on Liverpool. They’re on another level.

https://x.com/markmaddenx/status/1723902736075280632?s=46&t=fPqjFuG2GhqaQuPKHlWV6Q

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Pickett had one pass over the middle today, one.

Offensive play calling is as bad as ever. The fact they throw to pickens like 3 times a game would have gotten anyone else fired by now.

Pickett is also an objectively mediocre quarterback who has horrible vision of the field and slow decision making.

Offensive line is world better with Jones and Moore playing, but I wish they were switched.

Steelers need to win 1 out of 2 these next 2 weeks to stay in this.

Does it really matter?

The last 20 yrs have proven that teams who play ultra conservative offense and make their QBs into game mangers, historically things never end well for them in the playoffs.

Add in the Tomlin playoff factor and again, does anyone think the Titanic isn’t going down?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Lol Love >>>> Pickett.

Lol UM >>>>> PSU

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

The pass game is exclusively checkdowns, 10 yard outs, and back shoulder fades.

The middle of the field might as well not exist.

I was told that they'd start throwing to the middle of the field when Ben retired and it's not Canada

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I was told that they'd start throwing to the middle of the field when Ben retired and it's not Canada

The wr and te are open often over the middle of the field just the Qb doesn’t throw it to them

Does it really matter?

The last 20 yrs have proven that teams who play ultra conservative offense and make their QBs into game mangers, historically things never end well for them in the playoffs.

Add in the Tomlin playoff factor and again, does anyone think the Titanic isn’t going down?

Except ben in the playoffs was more successful as a game manager than a gun slinger

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

The wr and te are open often over the middle of the field just the Qb doesn’t throw it to them

Did you miss the 3 previous comments about your hypothesis?
The middle route is the last read. Considering how this line sucks in pass pro, the QB never gets to that final read

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The wr and te are open often over the middle of the field just the Qb doesn’t throw it to them


Except ben in the playoffs was more successful as a game manager than a gun slinger

Nope, more BS.

Cowher knew they couldn’t win in the playoffs with Roth being a game manager.

In 05, Roth was the first QB to win all his games on the road and he did it by slinging the ball all over the field in the first half agt Cincy, Colts and Den.

Then they went into turtle ball mode in the second half to protect the leads Roth built on his arm.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Except ben in the playoffs was more successful as a game manager than a gun slinger

Hahaha this is absolute nonsense

In 2005 Cowher threw everyone a curveball and let Ben sling it to build the lead and then had the running game close it

More "game managing" from Ben

 

[xlm34]

But can it be evolved?

I mean, I'm pretty critical of what Tomlin is doing. But stepping back and looking at it from a different angle -

He's teaching a lot of confidence and a lot about winning to a bunch of young players who could be part of the future here. There's no other way this set of players would be winning as much. And style of play isn't immutable. There is potentially a really good platform here if it can keep can getting better.

But can it get better? Can it evolve?

Forget the offensive side of the football. If he can get his hands on a couple of DBs better than Wallace/Peterson/Kazee/Neal this off-season, can he develop a secondary that actually shuts down plays as well as ballhawking? Or is the scheme incapable of doing that in the coaches' hands, regardless of player talent?

For the secondary, I think player talent is the biggest issue. I’ve seen it mentioned a lot but outside of Porter and Minkah, they lack athletes back there. If the pass rush doesn’t get home quickly, guys like Wallace and Pat Pete can’t physically keep up with these WRs that are all 4.4 type of guys.

I kind of feel the opposite on the offensive side of the ball. They could certainly use some help on the line but I don’t think the offense is a group that lacks talent. They just need someone way better than Matt Canada to tell them what to do. Although I can’t say I’m not a little concerned about Pickett at this point.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Nope, more BS.

Cowher knew they couldn’t win in the playoffs with Roth being a game manager.

In 05, Roth was the first QB to win all his games on the road and he did it by slinging the ball all over the field in the first half agt Cincy, Colts and Den.

Then they went into turtle ball mode in the second half to protect the leads Roth built on his arm.

He won 1 playoff game in hiz career throwing 3 tds or more.

Crunching the Numbers: Big stats and playoff wins don’t always go hand-in-hand

Ben Roethlisberger has much lower numbers in post season games where the Steelers are victorious.

www.behindthesteelcurtain.com

36 tds and 28 interceptions in 23 playoff games

 

[MrBrightside]

Did you miss the 3 previous comments about your hypothesis?
The middle route is the last read. Considering how this line sucks in pass pro, the QB never gets to that final read

Even if that’s true, what is the reason for that? The coaching staff is clearly so risk averse that it dictates everything they do, but if you have a QB you trust you don’t play with training wheels and a governor and an emergency brake on at the same time. I don’t agree with the play calling and game plans most of the time and while I definitely don’t think Tomlin is infallible he’s not a total idiot and the staff clearly doesn’t trust Pickett AT ALL.

 

[JTG]

It is absolutely absurd this team has the record it does right now. I don't ever remember the entire league being so average.

For the secondary, I think player talent is the biggest issue. I’ve seen it mentioned a lot but outside of Porter and Minkah, they lack athletes back there. If the pass rush doesn’t get home quickly, guys like Wallace and Pat Pete can’t physically keep up with these WRs that are all 4.4 type of guys.

I kind of feel the opposite on the offensive side of the ball. They could certainly use some help on the line but I don’t think the offense is a group that lacks talent. They just need someone way better than Matt Canada to tell them what to do. Although I can’t say I’m not a little concerned about Pickett at this point.

I know Peterson was excited to come here and play this hybrid DB position, but he's just flat out not good enough any longer to do that. They really should move him to safety. His intelligence could see him filling in that role for another 3-4 years easily.

The coordinator is a huge part of it for me, but Jace Sternberger said exactly what I have been thinking. There are no reads for players to adjust to how a defense is playing.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Just don’t get what they’re doing with the offense. I still don’t know what Pickett is. On one hand they’re 11-2 in the past 13 games he finishes the entire game. On the other I know very little about if I can win a SB with him.

I said before the season this team was a year away and needed to find out what Pickett was. I don’t think they have so far.