OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Killed Kenny!

[Buddy Bizarre]

How he blew up his career by being a MORON

Word was he was into smoking weed and purple drank. Likely had addiction issues.
Next to Randy Moss the dude probably was one of the most athletic WR's I've ever seen in my life.

What a waste of talent

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Ya that’s a lie.

It’s been confirmed by several beat guys, DK, Kaboly and Fillapado.

That’s exactly why after KP helped drive them 92 yards for the winning TD, Tomlin told him he didn’t trust KP to now get him ten yards and win the game.

What kind of message is that to your young QB?

Canada alluded to this ultra conservative offense being what Tomlin wants.

The 400 yard streak predates Canada.

It predates KP.

It’s a Tomlin issue like I’ve explained to you over and over again.

He wants to eke out wins and keep his idiotic winning seasons streak alive. He has no interest in developing a modern offense and living with a young QBs mistakes that can put his precious streak in jeopardy.

What has KP shown you that says he should be trusted. Tomlin job is win games he let Mason and Duck throw it. They drafted the most pro ready Qb in a weak class where Wills has been surpassed Ridder was benched Corral is out the league Howell might be the best in he went in round 5. The extra covid year got kp over drafted. He has thrown the 3rd most uncathable balls this season it’s why the national media is saying he is winning inspite of KP

 

[xlm34]

To me, it looks like the opposite. There's several positions that seem fatally flawed and while, yes, that does mean you can fill any of them with high picks, that's because you wish you had the capital to fill all of them,

And the one place I'd be opposed to picking a guy is QB. Not because I firmly believe in Pickett, but because I firmly believe the team's talent holes make this a developmental nightmare, and I don't see the point of proving that with another guy considering the talent that will be available where the team is picking.



Just in a vacuum -

Yeah, we have DTs. Not a big fan of them. The best without Cam are Benton - who may or may not be a future piece, lil early to say - and Ogunjobi, whose injury history and age worries me. Given how long DTs often take to come online, I would - again, in a vacuum - be very happy to see them take a guy who can substantially upgrade the depth while offering a better succession plan to Heyward and Ogunjobi.

Outside of a vacuum... OT seems screamingly obvious given how the OL has struggled and brought everyone down. Hell, I'd do C too if there was one worth it there. And given how I want a better environment for the QB, I guess I'd mark it as more important than CB or DT. But boy could we use all of them.

Just kind of spitballing here, but if the line looks decent this second half of the year with Moore at LT and Jones at RT I’m wondering if they don’t just roll with that Tackle duo next year and only attempt to upgrade the center position.

This year has kind of confirmed what I’ve been thinking for a while and that’s that they like Moore way more than we’d like them to.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

What has KP shown you that says he should be trusted. Tomlin job is win games he let Mason and Duck throw it. They drafted the most pro ready Qb in a weak class where Wills has been surpassed Ridder was benched Corral is out the league Howell might be the best in he went in round 5. The extra covid year got kp over drafted. He has thrown the 3rd most uncathable balls this season it’s why the national media is saying he is winning inspite of KP

If you can't trust a 17 yr vet and HOF QB (Ben) to even call an audible, who WILL Tomlin ever trust?

You can spin this however you want to protect Tomlin, but this has been his mantra of low risk football ever since Ben hurt his elbow. The stats are evident and damning

 

[Goalie_Bob]

This whole narrative that Tomlin doesn't know how to develop a QB is complete hogwash.

It wasn't until Tomlin came around that Ben started to develop. Under Cowher, he threw the ball an average of 21 times a game, Tomlin's first season and there after he threw the ball an average of 31+ times a game.

He developed as a QB under Tomlin. He went from handing the ball off and throwing a pass every once in awhile to being the focal point of the offense. Which is why they won in 2008 and made another SB in 2010. And then you look at what they did with the Killer B's. Ben was throwing the ball all over the place.

For all this talk of Pickett being some 4th quarter maestro. In games where he is down by more than one score at start of the 4th quarter, he is statistically the worst QB in the league. He may be able to drive the team down for one score, but he can't truly bring a team back.

Just look at what Josh Dobbs did yesterday, after being with the Vikings for like 5 days...... And Dobbs will be a backup again next season.

Tomlin has seen enough of KP at this point to see a guy who is extremely flawed and is at best, a bottom 3rd of the league/backup QB. And his job is to win as many games as he can and thus he is doing that in the best way that he can with the talent the Steelers have on hand.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

This whole narrative that Tomlin doesn't know how to develop a QB is complete hogwash.

It wasn't until Tomlin came around that Ben started to develop. Under Cowher, he threw the ball an average of 21 times a game, Tomlin's first season and there after he threw the ball an average of 31+ times a game.

He developed as a QB under Tomlin. He went from handing the ball off and throwing a pass every once in awhile to being the focal point of the offense. Which is why they won in 2008 and made another SB in 2010. And then you look at what they did with the Killer B's. Ben was throwing the ball all over the place.

For all this talk of Pickett being some 4th quarter maestro. In games where he is down by more than one score at start of the 4th quarter, he is statistically the worst QB in the league. He may be able to drive the team down for one score, but he can't truly bring a team back.

Just look at what Josh Dobbs did yesterday, after being with the Vikings for like 5 days...... And Dobbs will be a backup again next season.

Tomlin has seen enough of KP at this point to see a guy who is extremely flawed and is at best, a bottom 3rd of the league/backup QB. And his job is to win as many games as he can and thus he is doing that in the best way that he can with the talent the Steelers have on hand.

I can't disagree with this stance any more. Ben won a ton of games as a rookie and a SB his 2nd year. Then he bonked his face off a Cadillac.

I'd argue that Ben was more "NFL ready" than KP was.

 

[Andy99]

If your goal is to maybe never have a losing season, and definitely never crash and burn with only two or three wins, then Tomlin's team building is for you.

If your goal is to win a championship then it will never happen with this model.

That is the issue.

ESPN has Tomlin at #1 for Coach of the Year rankings lol…to quote part of it (other part mentions how Steelers have gone from a team with one of the most homegrown talent rosters to one of the least)

“If you've been reading this column for a few years now, you know me. I like rationality. I want to understand what's helping teams win or causing them to lose. I want there to be clean reasons things are occurring. Football is complicated, but if you look hard enough, you can usually find reasons under the hood to explain things.

And then there's the Steelers, whose quarterback ranks 29th in the league in QBR. Whose lead running back is averaging 3.8 yards per carry. Whose defense is good, of course, but is 12th in points allowed per game. The turnover differential matters -- the Steelers are plus-8 through eight games -- but even that doesn't fully explain how they are over .500 while being outscored by 30 points and outgained in every single game.”

 

[bigdaddyk88]

If you can't trust a 17 yr vet and HOF QB (Ben) to even call an audible, who WILL Tomlin ever trust?

You can spin this however you want to protect Tomlin, but this has been his mantra of low risk football ever since Ben hurt his elbow. The stats are evident and damning

Ben was calling his own plays ignoring what called drawing plays in the dirt the bulk of his career. His mentality was feed the number 1 has often as possible
Ben against Cleveland in the playoffs threw it 68 times against kc he had 45

 

[MrBrightside]

Ben was garbage in 2006 but attributing that to Cowher or the turnaround in 2007 to Tomlin is really reaching. Ben also struggled quite a bit in 2008 until the playoffs, to be honest. He just was wildly inconsistent his first several seasons.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Ben was calling his own plays ignoring what called drawing plays in the dirt the bulk of his career. His mentality was feed the number 1 has often as possible
Ben against Cleveland in the playoffs threw it 68 times against kc he had 45

Yes early Ben was a gunslinger and did his own thing. The tail end of Ben's career he and the coaches are on record that BEN WAS NOT PERMITTED TO AUDIBLE

Note that all those pass attempts in the playoffs were due to being down the entire game. Of course they're going to sling it around.

Man you sure do love to twist stats and bow down to the sacred cow that is Mike Tomlin

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Yes early Ben was a gunslinger and did his own thing. The tail end of Ben's career he and the coaches are on record that BEN WAS NOT PERMITTED TO AUDIBLE

Note that all those pass attempts in the playoffs were due to being down the entire game. Of course they're going to sling it around.

Man you sure do love to twist stats and bow down to the sacred cow that is Mike Tomlin

You do know Ben had more than 1 oc who didn’t want him to audible because he wasn’t a film guy or great pre snap

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Matt Ryan said he wasn’t allowed to audble in the Super Bowl

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

You do know Ben had more than 1 oc who didn’t want him to audible because he wasn’t a film guy or great pre snap

You continue to not address the question of: WHO WILL Tomlin trust?

And I agree on Ben not being a great film guy, but to call him not great at pre snap is flat out incorrect. Ben was a good football player. He knew what defenses were doing even without film study

Matt Ryan said he wasn’t allowed to audble in the Super Bowl

Do you think perhaps that's bc the Pats were notorious signal/audible stealers?

 

[Peat]

Just kind of spitballing here, but if the line looks decent this second half of the year with Moore at LT and Jones at RT I’m wondering if they don’t just roll with that Tackle duo next year and only attempt to upgrade the center position.

This year has kind of confirmed what I’ve been thinking for a while and that’s that they like Moore way more than we’d like them to.

This might happen. But, given how slow Moore started this season, I will be a bit frustrated. Given that this will also be his last year on a rookie contract and the team shouldn't be fighting to keep him, they should also be looking to replace him for next year and given how conservative the team are about introducing rookies, that should be a pick made this year.

So... for me, it would have to be one hell of a second half for me to not want them to go after the position early. But, then, there are so many places they could spend a high pick wisely. I think you could even start to make a case for doing it for a pass catcher given that Muth is very injury prone and Pickens is very immature and inconsistent.

Tomlin has seen enough of KP at this point to see a guy who is extremely flawed and is at best, a bottom 3rd of the league/backup QB. And his job is to win as many games as he can and thus he is doing that in the best way that he can with the talent the Steelers have on hand.

This should not be the totality of his job. His job should be at least equally about developing teams to win championships.

Demanding an uber-conservative attacking scheme that stunts the development of the offensive side of the ball may win games now, but it harms the chances of developing a championship worthy team.

The only reason I'm not hollering for him to be fired if that's what he is is that I believe he's just following orders from Rooney so what's the point.

But this "just win the next game" is a situation designed to mess with Pickett's development. Maybe Pickett has it, maybe he doesn't, but I don't see why we'd expect him to overcome this when combined with an awful OL and I don't see why we'd expect the next guy to either.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

This might happen. But, given how slow Moore started this season, I will be a bit frustrated. Given that this will also be his last year on a rookie contract and the team shouldn't be fighting to keep him, they should also be looking to replace him for next year and given how conservative the team are about introducing rookies, that should be a pick made this year.

So... for me, it would have to be one hell of a second half for me to not want them to go after the position early. But, then, there are so many places they could spend a high pick wisely. I think you could even start to make a case for doing it for a pass catcher given that Muth is very injury prone and Pickens is very immature and inconsistent.

Are we jumping the gun and assuming that Jones will start at RT this week? Reason Oks got benched was allegedly bc of what he said the previous week and not performance based

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Are we jumping the gun and assuming that Jones will start at RT this week? Reason Oks got benched was allegedly bc of what he said the previous week and not performance based

Some reporters say it was just an excuse the coach needed to bench him. Foster and dk say he gets complacent and comfortable and relies heavily on his initial block and doesn’t give a 2nd effort they gave him a prove it contract if he isn’t the long term RT he isn’t getting the 11 million he is due. Moore can’t play RT they would love to flip him for picks they drafted Jones to play lt the next 10 years

 

[DanielPlainview]

Why TF are people OBSESSED with CB? They do not need to use a first round pick on a CB. Not in the slightest. Not when the OL has one good lineman who's a damn rookie and they have possibly the weakest group of ILB in the league.

I would laugh my ass off if Kenny Pickett ends up being a Geno Smith type who gets let go from a terrible situation, gets to sit behind a veteran for a few years, then pops off. I genuinely think that's what could happen because he has so much raw talent while having very poor college coaching and little shot to succeed with the Steelers under this OC and HC.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

What has KP shown you that says he should be trusted. Tomlin job is win games he let Mason and Duck throw it. They drafted the most pro ready Qb in a weak class where Wills has been surpassed Ridder was benched Corral is out the league Howell might be the best in he went in round 5. The extra covid year got kp over drafted. He has thrown the 3rd most uncathable balls this season it’s why the national media is saying he is winning inspite of KP

He showed me he can drive 92 yards and get them a winning TD.

But he can’t be trusted to get ten yards and close out a game?

Have fun explaining that away.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

He showed me he can drive 92 yards and get them a winning TD.

But he can’t be trusted to get ten yards and close out a game?

Have fun explaining that away.

Bigdaddy will never criticize Tomlin.
I asked him to give me just 1 post where he's been critical of the man. Crickets...
Tomlin is the 2nd coming of Christ apparently.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

He showed me he can drive 92 yards and get them a winning TD.

But he can’t be trusted to get ten yards and close out a game?

Have fun explaining that away.

So on a drive where they called more runs then passes where attempted one pass over 10 yards the 32 yards to DJ showed you. He completed 2 passes on that drive before the walk in td one to boykin for 8 yards and then the 32 yard to DJ

 

[MrBrightside]

Why TF are people OBSESSED with CB? They do not need to use a first round pick on a CB. Not in the slightest. Not when the OL has one good lineman who's a damn rookie and they have possibly the weakest group of ILB in the league.

I would laugh my ass off if Kenny Pickett ends up being a Geno Smith type who gets let go from a terrible situation, gets to sit behind a veteran for a few years, then pops off. I genuinely think that's what could happen because he has so much raw talent while having very poor college coaching and little shot to succeed with the Steelers under this OC and HC.

The idea that Pickett is some insanely talented guy is just bizarre to me. If anything, he's the exact opposite of this - modest, at best, tools whose best attributes appear to be intangible and not "raw talent." There's not a scout around who evaluated Pickett's arm or other physical attributes as being top level.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

This is getting ridiculous

 

[xlm34]

Why TF are people OBSESSED with CB? They do not need to use a first round pick on a CB. Not in the slightest. Not when the OL has one good lineman who's a damn rookie and they have possibly the weakest group of ILB in the league.

I would laugh my ass off if Kenny Pickett ends up being a Geno Smith type who gets let go from a terrible situation, gets to sit behind a veteran for a few years, then pops off. I genuinely think that's what could happen because he has so much raw talent while having very poor college coaching and little shot to succeed with the Steelers under this OC and HC.

Cornerbacks signed for next year:

Joey Porter Jr.
Patrick Peterson
Corey Trice
Darius Rush

Between that and how the secondary has played so far, it’s a real mystery why fans might see CB as a possibility

 

[Coastal Kev]

This is getting ridiculous

That play actually made me stop watching football yesterday. Textbook tackle that also would have caused a change in possession. The "ref" literally gave NE a turnover. I see this time and time again in today's NFL, there are now 3 teams playing in each game.

Also, I have noticed a ton of very late flags being thrown. Notice that every "ref" is tied into HQ via headset. THE NFL litterally can control calls/games via a centralized location now. At some point, someone with a popular voice will make these same points and I hope that the NFL's house of cards comes crashing down on them.

Goodell is a very evil man for a multitude of reasons.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

So on a drive where they called more runs then passes where attempted one pass over 10 yards the 32 yards to DJ showed you. He completed 2 passes on that drive before the walk in td one to boykin for 8 yards and then the 32 yard to DJ

So basically the Tomlin lives in his fears excuse, cool.

You can consistently drive us down the field in the “weighty” moments, but the rest of the time don’t f*** up.

Oh and I can’t trust you to get ten yards to close out a game.

Totally how you build a young QBs confidence.

Pass the bong.