OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Blamed Canada

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Here's the other component about KP getting hurt: it puts less tape out there to evaluate him. So while KP has 2 years under his belt, he'll only eventually end up playing 1 and another quarter season in total.

The Steelers have a habit of letting players hang around a year too long vs cutting bait a year too soon.

Also, Mitch struggling so bad vs KP is bad bc it's the excuse Tomlin defenders (and the media) will point to: "Tomlin lost his starting QB!"
But they ignore plenty of other backups having success. Hell Jake Browning looks better than anything we've trotted out this year.

This is the year of the backup.

Other teams are excelling with their backups - why isn’t Tomlin?

Maybe the media and AR2 should figure that one out.

If Tomlin is gone and KP has a bad year next season, a new coach would have zero attachments to him.

Didn’t draft him. Not helping him. Gonna want his own guy.

Sadly I can’t type this stuff out and believe it could ever be a reality because of how this team operates.

 

[Power Surge]

KP wasn’t meant to be this kind of safe, scared ass QB, which is what disturbs me the most and what he’ll do to the next guy.

This is what Tomlin turned him into.

I’d rather have seen him flame out playing with balls like he did in college, than turn into this Tomlin Frankenstein QB.

But I disagree about him getting hurt being the worst thing…

It’s actually been a very good thing.

KP played safe ball and helped Tomlin win with his idiotic philosophy, and I have no doubt if he stayed healthy this team would have squeaked out enough wins to get in the playoffs.

His injury is helping expose Tomlin for who he is, which is what AR2 needs to see.

For selfish reasons as I stated above, he's trying to preserve the no losing seasons to Picketts detriment.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

While not drafting quality personalities is an issue, player development is more of a problem.

Clown and his staff no name goons and mimes do not know how to properly develop prospects to NFL standard.

He never grew as a coach himself because he was gifted a stacked team and a good organization. No one ever challenged him. I'm pretty sure he's the only coach in the league that still uses the term splash plays. he also still lives in the late 2000's.

That's a big thing too

Name the last player besides TJ and Highsmith to IMPROVE after their rookie season?

Here are some the players that regressed significantly in their sophomore years:
Pickens
KP
Harris
Leal
Claypool

Those are significant pieces.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

This is the year of the backup.

Other teams are excelling with their backups - why isn’t Tomlin?

Maybe the media and AR2 should figure that one out.

If Tomlin is gone and KP has a bad year next season, a new coach would have zero attachments to him.

Didn’t draft him. Not helping him. Gonna want his own guy.

Sadly I can’t type this stuff out and believe it could ever be a reality because of how this team operates.

Oh I agree with you- backups all over the league are experiencing a ton of success. But of course not here because this offense is stuck at the HS level. Tomlin doesn't understand offensive football at all

He doesn't realize that dumbing the playbook down doesn't HELP your QB, it' hurts him bc the defense doesn't have to plan for many variations

And going back to my "injury to KP is the worst version of events". It's again the limited amount of resume KP will have. I've said this a few times: missing in R1 on a QB isn't a franchise killer. But holding onto him for too long can be

KP should be given 1 more year (next) and be sent packing if he has no improvement.

 

[JTG]

Ideal offseason for me -

They trade Tomlin, DJ, and Chuks. That should be, at minimum, an extra 1, 2, and 4/5.

If they suck again next season - fire sale and just let it organically build like we did in the 2000's.

 

[pistolpete11]

The Steeler Way was more about Art than anything else. There was a standard in the organization and no one wanted to let him down. So many told and untold stories in this franchise, but it basically came down to this: if you were a generally talented player that put in the work but had a situation, the Steelers would support you

But if you were talented, but didn't have a decent "bedside manner" you would be moved out quickly.

Under Tomlin this franchise has valued physical traits vs football players and competitiveness. I mean Devin Bush was a great example. Claypool too. Cam Heyward getting drafted was a long time ago. He's probably the last "character" guy they brought on board.

It's pretty obvious that Tomlin can't control all these guys even though is calling card is supposedly a "Leader of Men"

I wouldn't trust Tomlin to plan a 2 car parade

I guess my overall point is that the lockerroom mindset comes from the top down. Tomlin doesn't instill that mindset and he never did. He walked into a lockerroom that already had it instilled in them by Cowher and Lebeau. It has been slowly eroding away year after year since.

I'll disagree that Cam was the last high character guy they brought in, but I'll also add that I don't think character is something you have or don't. It's a spectrum. Put a decent guy into a good situation and he'll turn out alright. But you shouldn't be surprised when things go south if you put him in a shitty situation. I'll probably take some flack for this, but I think a good example of this is JuJu. Sure, getting a guy who's already 100% focused on football and not worried about social media would be easier. But by all accounts JuJu worked hard and he certainly played hard. With a little leadership (and better injury luck), I think he was a guy they could have molded into a good player and a good lockerroom guy. Instead, we got what we got because Tomlin let everything he, AB, and whoever else go unchecked.

That's not to say there aren't just bad apples or guys who have such high character they don't need any guidance. Nor is to say that they haven't strayed too far in terms of who they draft. But I think the majority of guys are somewhere in the middle, but the Steelers haven't had a good lockerroom for quite some time.

 

[Pens x]

https://x.com/Blitz_Burgh/status/1736443041362149864?s=20

For those of you d riding yinzer Colbert.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I guess my overall point is that the lockerroom mindset comes from the top down. Tomlin doesn't instill that mindset and he never did. He walked into a lockerroom that already had it instilled in them by Cowher and Lebeau. It has been slowly eroding away year after year since.

I'll disagree that Cam was the last high character guy they brought in, but I'll also add that I don't think character is something you have or don't. It's a spectrum. Put a decent guy into a good situation and he'll turn out alright. But you shouldn't be surprised when things go south if you put him in a shitty situation. I'll probably take some flack for this, but I think a good example of this is JuJu. Sure, getting a guy who's already 100% focused on football and not worried about social media would be easier. But by all accounts JuJu worked hard and he certainly played hard. With a little leadership (and better injury luck), I think he was a guy they could have molded into a good player and a good lockerroom guy. Instead, we got what we got because Tomlin let everything he, AB, and whoever else go unchecked.

That's not to say there aren't just bad apples or guys who have such high character they don't need any guidance. Nor is to say that they haven't strayed too far in terms of who they draft. But I think the majority of guys are somewhere in the middle, but the Steelers haven't had a good lockerroom for quite some time.

Fair point and I agree that early 20 year olds can still be shaped by their environment.

What I meant about Cam was that I think he was a high-character guy and it was ingrained in him. So no matter what environment he's in, he still will have integrity.

But yea this lockerroom has slowly gotten toxic. Since Mann left, there's been no one to control these whiney ass WR's and it bleeds into other position areas.

You're right that culture starts at the top (and that includes the owner). So Art and the person he enables, Tomlin are fully responsible. He's been here longer than Cowher. There is no excuse left for Tomlin even though 1 person on here and the national media will give him a ton.

https://x.com/Blitz_Burgh/status/1736443041362149864?s=20

For those of you d riding yinzer Colbert.

Colbert had seemingly lost the plot since like 2019. I'm openly wondering how much input Tomlin had on those drafts. The Harris pick screams to me a Tomlin decision.

 

[pistolpete11]

Fair point and I agree that early 20 year olds can still be shaped by their environment.

What I meant about Cam was that I think he was a high-character guy and it was ingrained in him. So no matter what environment he's in, he still will have integrity.

But yea this lockerroom has slowly gotten toxic. Since Mann left, there's been no one to control these whiney ass WR's and it bleeds into other position areas.

You're right that culture starts at the top (and that includes the owner). So Art and the person he enables, Tomlin are fully responsible. He's been here longer than Cowher. There is no excuse left for Tomlin even though 1 person on here and the national media will give him a ton.

DeCastro and Fitzpatrick unquestionably fit that high-character no matter what standard for me.

There's probably some more that you could make a strong case for, but I get your point. It's not what it once was where they seemed to draft at least 1 or 2 of those kind of guys every year and there's only a few that come to mind in the last 12 years.

 

[Josey Wales]

 

[JTG]

https://x.com/Blitz_Burgh/status/1736443041362149864?s=20

For those of you d riding yinzer Colbert.

That was right about the time they start "1 year dealing" him. If the Penguins and Steelers have taught us absolutely anything, missing year after year in the draft is the fastest way to anchor/sink a team long term.

Let's go further though -

2013 - Hood (bust)
2014 - Shazier (stud/HOF trajectory)
2015 - Bud (half bust)
2016 - Burns (bust)
2017 - Watt (HOF)

11 years he was a stud at drafting (2001-2012) - he pulled out Troy, Hampton, Ben, Heath, Holmes, and Timmons, Pouncey, Heyward, and Decastro. The drafts he didn't pull a good 1st round player he pulled out a HELL of a haul.

2002 - He drafted Kendall Simmons who was a good player but didn't have good health. He drafted Randle El, Chris Hope, Larry Foote, and Brett Keisel. 2023 looks like that for Khan.

2008 - No players made it.

2009 - Mike Wallace, Keenan Lewis, Kraig Urbik, and AQ Shipley. Urbik and Shipley played a few years. Wallace and Lewis were fine depth players.

His drafts after 2012 were very average.

View attachment 785697

He is Ricky Williams without the talent.

 

[Josey Wales]

Rex Ryan: If Steelers Fire Mike Tomlin, It Would Be 'Greatest Thing' Ever Done For Him I Guess Sexy Rexy has finally given up on ever coaching again & is a "Talking Head" saying stupid f***ing shit like this

For Steelers, Playoff Hope Remains Due To Mike Tomlin's Track Record, NFL Columnist Believes Hey it is the Magicalnever has had a losing season shit

For Steelers, Playoff Hope Remains Due To Mike Tomlin's Track Record, NFL Columnist Believes Hey it is the Magicalnever has had a losing season shit

 

[JTG]

Great stat - the Pittsburgh Pirates have the same amount of playoff wins (3) as Mike Tomlin in the last 10 years. Ewwwww

 

[End of Line]

View attachment 785697

What the hell?

 

[Josey Wales]

Brown: Six Things That Tell Me How Bad Things Have Gotten For The Steelers

No preamble can capture the depths to which the Steelers have plummeted since they were 7-4 and in prime position to challenge the Ravens for the AFC North title. Let’s just call it Unleashed Hell. And let’s get right to six things that jump out to me when thinking about how bad it has gotten […]

steelersdepot.com

 

[Empoleon8771]

7-10 record incoming

 

[Josey Wales]

7-10 record incoming

At This Point HC Cliché is just flinging shit at the wall

 

[Pens1566]

The best path forward is to lose out, trade Tomlin (while he's still got most of his value) for a haul of picks, and retool. There's way too much wrong with the staff/roster to keep on wasting years of Watt and Minkah.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I didn't type this but perfectly stated:
***************
I used to HATE seeing the Steelers lose.

But now, I literally hate so many of our players and especially the HC that I'm enjoying the f*** out of seeing these guys fail. I mean, how can you support and cheer for a selfish, lazy douche like George Pickens? Hines Ward would have blocked that DB into the EZ clearing the way for his RB to score. Easy TD there.

I love the team more than anyone wearing the uniform or prancing on the sidelines. Players and coaches come and go. They are but short-term representatives of the emblem and either get elevated to Steeler greatness or kicked the curb with all the rest that never became worthy. You are either a "Steeler" or you are not. These dickheads are not Steelers. They are frauds soiling the uniform.

This current group does not represent Steelers football to me. And the sooner they are gone the better.

So keep sucking suckers.

DJ, Pickens, the QB room, Muth, Cole, Moore, the ILB crew, Najee, Chuks,,,,, I'll just stop here before listing the entire roster.

The way this organization carries itself is so nauseatingly arrogant you can't help but enjoy watching them fail. The nepotism, the shirking away from analytics, drafting the local boy-makes-good in lil ken and ignoring his actual abilities while just falling in love with the story and the idea we can find ways to win with him because WE'RE THE STEELERS AND WINNING IS OUR CULTURE and on and on...

 

[Power Surge]

What the hell?

How bout this. We will stop commenting on football when Rooney stops hiring Clowns.

 

[JTG]

The best path forward is to lose out, trade Tomlin (while he's still got most of his value) for a haul of picks, and retool. There's way too much wrong with the staff/roster to keep on wasting years of Watt and Minkah.

Yeah, I think the path forward is to start with the top and guys who won't be here in 2025, and then if it keeps going poorly, keep flipping guys.

The offense isn't that far off. If they can make some moves in the offseason and have another decent draft, this offense could quickly match the defense. They aren't going to do it with the likes of Tomlin, DJ, and Chuks though. I'd start there and have like 12-14 picks this draft to play around with.

If this team is a bottom feeder again next season, they need to look into trading TJ and Minkah. Both guys are already injury prone, so there is no reason to keep them around into their 30's.

They will also have money this offseason to spend.

2024 NFL Free Agent Rankings: Top 200 players set to enter free agency

We look at the 200 best players set to hit the free-agent market this offseason with free agency still months away.

www.pff.com

 

[Peat]

Here's the other component about KP getting hurt: it puts less tape out there to evaluate him. So while KP has 2 years under his belt, he'll only eventually end up playing 1 and another quarter season in total.

The Steelers have a habit of letting players hang around a year too long vs cutting bait a year too soon.

Also, Mitch struggling so bad vs KP is bad bc it's the excuse Tomlin defenders (and the media) will point to: "Tomlin lost his starting QB!"
But they ignore plenty of other backups having success. Hell Jake Browning looks better than anything we've trotted out this year.

I can't say I've read everything, but I don't think people are pointing to it at all.

Which is, imo, actually slightly unfair. I firmly believe they've got another two wins with Pickett and this isn't happening. No, he's not some sort of magician, but as you've said, what he's doing is fitting Tomlin football to a tee while Trubisky's way of operating is absolutely the opposite. Which in itself raises all sorts of questions but it's been a very damaging injury for Tomlin.

But there we go. Ironically, Tomlin is being hoist by his own petard as nobody who doesn't pay close attention to the Steelers thinks Pickett matters because they just see the poor numbers and go meh. They don't get the turnover battle thing. Plus, yeah, as noted as this isn't the year to complain about backup QBs.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
·
3m
NFL announced it has suspended Steelers’ safety Damontae Kazee for the rest of the season for violating playing rules intended to protect the health and safety of players.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I'm not going to sit here and suggest that is somehow different from many backs, and that most backs don't have similar lowlights, or that it's not somehow different at field level.

But I will sit here and say that, allowing for all of those things, it is evidence that Najee is like most backs and not elevated or gifted in any way that you'd like from a first-round pick with a Bama pedigree and who the team continues to give a feature-back workload.