OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Blamed Canada

[Jaded-Fan]

There’s no doubt in my mind now that Tomlin has no clue how to develop a young QB.

He’s a defensive guy who’s not really even some elite defensive mind.

If you look at the successful HCs around the league now, they are all offensive gurus, and the rules of the league favor them.

Tomlin thinks he’s smarter than everyone else and he can zig while the league zags.

The league is starting to pass him by and he doesn’t want to change and evolve with it.

Remember when the Pens played the Devils year in and year out, and got owned by the trap? The Steelers are kind of like that now. The entire team built to service the defense and to count on keeping it close and getting a lucky break when the other team is frustrated. Tomlin doesn't care at all about the offense other than it not interfering with the defense.

That orientation will buy you that high floor, as I mentioned above. But be completely out of step with what wins when it counts in today's NFL. And worse, artificially inflate your win totals to be just good enough never to draft high enough to get that franchise quarterback or similar and certainly not good enough to win a Superbowl.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Remember when the Pens played the Devils year in and year out, and got owned by the trap? The Steelers are kind of like that now. The entire team built to service the defense and to count on keeping it close and getting a lucky break when the other team is frustrated. Tomlin doesn't care at all about the offense other than it not interfering with the defense.

That orientation will buy you that high floor, as I mentioned above. But be completely out of step with what wins when it counts in today's NFL. And worse, artificially inflate your win totals to be just good enough never to draft high enough to get that franchise quarterback or similar and certainly not good enough to win a Superbowl.

Hence why it feels so hopeless with him around (Tomlin Purgatory).

JT posting that article about Dan Rooney coming through the ranks and being next in line is honestly the only ray of light I can see right now TBTH.

Going to be so dope when Tomlin goes 3-1 down the stretch and they get blown out in the wildcard round.

 

[Rossi Rat]

I just donated a sizable amount of $ to the Athletic to fund Josh Yohe’s bonus because dude actually speaks his mind about the horse **** college in this city whose alum QB has greatly contributed to ruining the Steelers. LOVE that he spoke his mind on it this past weekend and LOVE that their fans think they can actually get him fired while I help make him richer. So sorely mistaken.

Encourage you all to do the same.

 

[Factorial]

I just donated a sizable amount of $ to the Athletic to fund Josh Yohe’s bonus because dude actually speaks his mind about the horse **** college in this city whose alum QB has greatly contributed to ruining the Steelers. LOVE that he spoke his mind on it this past weekend and LOVE that their fans think they can actually get him fired while I help make him richer. So sorely mistaken.

Encourage you all to do the same.

Good one troll.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Do you have to maintain control of the ball after being tackled in the endzone or not?

Depends.

Mostly on how the ref crew is feeling at any particular moment.

 

[MrBrightside]

Remember when the Pens played the Devils year in and year out, and got owned by the trap? The Steelers are kind of like that now. The entire team built to service the defense and to count on keeping it close and getting a lucky break when the other team is frustrated. Tomlin doesn't care at all about the offense other than it not interfering with the defense.

That orientation will buy you that high floor, as I mentioned above. But be completely out of step with what wins when it counts in today's NFL. And worse, artificially inflate your win totals to be just good enough never to draft high enough to get that franchise quarterback or similar and certainly not good enough to win a Superbowl.

I think this is an issue that many head coaches who have defensive coaching backgrounds have, although Tomlin's seems the most pronounced. If you look at Saleh and Vrabel and post-Brady Belichick and Bowles, they all have the same approaches to things. It just doesn't work at a high level in the modern NFL.

The fact that this team would still be the #6 seed in the AFC is absolute comedy.

 

[pistolpete11]

QB is the most important position maybe in all of sports. It makes sense that your head coach is an offensive mind to help support him. If he's not, then you must, must, must have a great OC and probably a HoF worthy QB, too. Tomlin was only successful when he had Arians and Ben. I'm not sure all the OC's Belichick has had, but Brady was essentially a great OC. He just happened to be on the field.

It's painfully obvious that Tomlin needs to go, but at bare minimum, they need to hire a great OC and give them complete control. No meddling from Tomlin at all. If he doesn't like it, then he can GTFO.

 

[JTG]

NFL Salary Cap Increase Could Help Steelers in Offseason

The NFL will not release their salary cap projections until at least early January, ESPN reports. While that is generally par for the course, early estimates show that the ‘business is booming’ NFL is boosting the salary cap potential above $240 million. That would be an over $15 million...

steelersnow.com

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

What exactly is it about Pickett's game that have people thinking he doesn't have "it"? He's been quite clutch despite the horrible circumstances. I really don't think it's fair to judge him harshly until we see him in an actual functional professional offense with an OL he trusts to not break down in 1.2 seconds

a) He doesn't climb the pocket like typical QB's
b) He can't read a zone defense
c) His pre snap reads are terrible
d) He bails on the pocket too early

Other than that, he's a great QB!

But seriously, I was expecting Jake Delhomme or Jake Plummer. Both of those QB's were severely flawed, but they at least could read zone defenses. KP has "moxie" and that's about all you can say for him.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Theoretically it is accurate. Stability is how you create and keep a winning culture. And Tomlin does know how to limit the floor of performance. The real question with Tomlin has always been whether he can ever get the most out of a team. The xs and os of the game. Yes, he won a couple of superbowls but can anyone really point to his game plans as the reason why?

Why can't people understand that there's a happy medium between 2 extremes?

I certainly don't want to be changing HC's like underwear: Jets, Raiders, etc all suffer from this myopic vision. It's completely detrimental.

But it's also detrimental in another sense when people stay on for too long. Complacency sets in on a personal and organizational level.

And I think if you could sum up the Steelers (and Pens) in 1 word it would be "complacent". Be an average team, maybe make the playoffs and the apple cart doesn't get upset. Wash, rinse, repeat...

 

[MrBrightside]

a) He doesn't climb the pocket like typical QB's
b) He can't read a zone defense
c) His pre snap reads are terrible
d) He bails on the pocket too early

Other than that, he's a great QB!

But seriously, I was expecting Jake Delhomme or Jake Plummer. Both of those QB's were severely flawed, but they at least could read zone defenses. KP has "moxie" and that's about all you can say for him.

He's also been one of the least accurate passers in the NFL in 2023. But yeah. Otherwise he's fine.

I'm so tired of the "it's a bad situation" stuff. Good lord. Zach F'ing Wilson behind a trash offensive line in bad weather had a better day yesterday against Houston than Pickett has ever had in the NFL, Jake Browning has had 2 straight weeks better than any Pickett has ever had, Flacco came off the couch and has had 2 straight weeks better than Pickett has ever had, and there are 100 other such examples, but apparently we have to wait until we hire Sean McVay as the OC, have Jefferson and Diggs at WR, and the Cowboys' offensive line to evaluate Pickett.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

He's also been one of the least accurate passers in the NFL in 2023. But yeah. Otherwise he's fine.

I'm so tired of the "it's a bad situation" stuff. Good lord. Zach F'ing Wilson behind a trash offensive line in bad weather had a better day yesterday against Houston than Pickett has ever had in the NFL, Jake Browning has had 2 straight weeks better than any Pickett has ever had, Flacco came off the couch and has had 2 straight weeks better than Pickett has ever had, and there are 100 other such examples, but apparently we have to wait until we hire Sean McVay as the OC, have Jefferson and Diggs at WR, and the Cowboys' offensive line to evaluate Pickett.

Yea when you see QB's come in off the street or ones with only 1 or 2 passes thrown at the NFL level have success, you start side eying KP's resume.

Playing QB in this day and age is the easiest it's ever been, but KP still struggles. And while I won't put 100% of that on Kenny, he's got a major hand in what he's put on tape.

 

[MrBrightside]

Yea when you see QB's come in off the street or ones with only 1 or 2 passes thrown at the NFL level have success, you start side eying KP's resume.

Playing QB in this day and age is the easiest it's ever been, but KP still struggles. And while I won't put 100% of that on Kenny, he's got a major hand in what he's put on tape.

Of course it's not all on Pickett. He's been done no favors by the coaching staff and game planning and surrounding cast, and a lot of the struggles of the offense are beyond his control. I'm not sure why everyone is so determined to make it either (a) the coaching staff/surrounding case or (b) Pickett when the very obvious answer to anyone not invested in pushing an agenda and/or being H2P is that both (a) and (b) are problems.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Agreed, it is not all on KP. That is what is so obscene about the Steelers philosophy and offense. It makes evaluation all the more difficult.

It would like putting Connor McDavid on the trapping Devils teams of years ago, telling him that he was not allowed to transition to offense almost ever but to maintain a trap, and complaining that he was no longer winning scoring titles.

That does not exonerarte KP. But an excuse is there that when 95% of your throws are within five yards of the line of scrimmage and you are not allowed to throw to the middle of the field, not only do you not get the reps on mid-range and long throws needed to develop and to maintain sharpness, but you deal with a stacked box on every down but the inevitable third and long. That is hardly conducive to any kind of success.

Yes, you can judge him, and I am, you are, everyone is. But you also wonder about his lack of development and what his ceiling could have been. As it stands, and knowing Tomlin, we will never know. Not on this team.

And spoiler alert. Just like the new OC will be a clone of the last two, the new QB will be put under the same game plan and have the same failures, even if he were drafted first overall.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Of course it's not all on Pickett. He's been done no favors by the coaching staff and game planning and surrounding cast, and a lot of the struggles of the offense are beyond his control. I'm not sure why everyone is so determined to make it either (a) the coaching staff/surrounding case or (b) Pickett when the very obvious answer to anyone not invested in pushing an agenda and/or being H2P is that both (a) and (b) are problems.

I don't think it's H2P really, on this board.
It's fans who really don't want to be on the QB carousel for years and years. Because chances are the next guy also fails.

I'm thoroughly unconvinced by Pickett, but drafting CB/OL instead of throwing everything at the QB position sounds nice.

 

[T1K]

https://x.com/farabaughfb/status/1734258037383147763?s=46&t=YE2NPYWvXyArt8F6TGk8yA

Absolutely embarrassing, but I guess at this point it helps us get a better draft pick.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

https://x.com/farabaughfb/status/1734258037383147763?s=46&t=YE2NPYWvXyArt8F6TGk8yA

Absolutely embarrassing, but I guess at this point it helps us get a better draft pick.

The pats was the highest rated defensive we will play but MT needs to be on a short leash for the 1st half

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

This brings back memories (terrible ones, but still)

Imprisoned accomplice of Rae Carruth dies at 63

Van Brett Watkins, who had spent two decades in prison for firing the shots in a plot by then-Carolina Panthers player Rae Carruth to kill Carruth's pregnant girlfriend, has died at age 63.

www.espn.com

 

[Peat]

Yea when you see QB's come in off the street or ones with only 1 or 2 passes thrown at the NFL level have success, you start side eying KP's resume.

Playing QB in this day and age is the easiest it's ever been, but KP still struggles. And while I won't put 100% of that on Kenny, he's got a major hand in what he's put on tape.

You think those guys would be doing that here though?

Or do you think they'd be failing like Trubisky?

To me, this is all cart before the horse. Other orgs can just pick up guys from where ever and plug them in and it's fine. This org can take a 50 plus game guy who's been to the Pro Bowl and been with the org for a season and a half and make him look like absolute crap. If playing QB in this day and age is the easiest it's even been, the Steelers are a true buck the trend throwback.

When that's happening, I don't start side eying Pickett's work. I start - well, continue to, but with greater intensity - side eying the org's work and asking whether they could make it work with anything other than an absolutely can't miss situation there.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Agreed, it is not all on KP. That is what is so obscene about the Steelers philosophy and offense. It makes evaluation all the more difficult.

It would like putting Connor McDavid on the trapping Devils teams of years ago, telling him that he was not allowed to transition to offense almost ever but to maintain a trap, and complaining that he was no longer winning scoring titles.

That does not exonerarte KP. But an excuse is there that when 95% of your throws are within five yards of the line of scrimmage and you are not allowed to throw to the middle of the field, not only do you not get the reps on mid-range and long throws needed to develop and to maintain sharpness, but you deal with a stacked box on every down but the inevitable third and long. That is hardly conducive to any kind of success.

Yes, you can judge him, and I am, you are, everyone is. But you also wonder about his lack of development and what his ceiling could have been. As it stands, and knowing Tomlin, we will never know. Not on this team.

And spoiler alert. Just like the new OC will be a clone of the last two, the new QB will be put under the same game plan and have the same failures, even if he were drafted first overall.

People keep missing the point with KP going backwards, and it doesn't matter if "it's on him" and "he's not getting enough blame" or "Canada and Tomlin blew his development".

Who gives a f***.

If it's the development being poor, that is a huge issue.

If KP is simply a bad NFL QB, that is just as big an issue, because it means Tomlin is a poor evaluator of the position then.

He literally could see KP practicing live by walking across the facility every week day and had a massive advantage other coaches didn't have in regards to KP.

Tomlin struck out on Rudolph, he struck out on MT who he believed could be a good stop gap to run his "offense" and now KP has had a historically bad start.

No matter how people want to assign blame with the KP struggles, Tomlin either:

- has no clue how to run a modern NFL offense and it makes QBs look like ass or
- he has no clue how to evaluate Qbs competently because any QB he has drafted or brought in has been abysmal.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

QB is the most important position maybe in all of sports. It makes sense that your head coach is an offensive mind to help support him. If he's not, then you must, must, must have a great OC and probably a HoF worthy QB, too. Tomlin was only successful when he had Arians and Ben. I'm not sure all the OC's Belichick has had, but Brady was essentially a great OC. He just happened to be on the field.

It's painfully obvious that Tomlin needs to go, but at bare minimum, they need to hire a great OC and give them complete control. No meddling from Tomlin at all. If he doesn't like it, then he can GTFO.

If your quarterbacks only responsibility is to hand the ball off or to throw the football within three yards before or after the line of scrimmage, does the quarterback who is handing the ball off over and over really matter?

 

[pistolpete11]

If your quarterbacks only responsibility is to hand the ball off or to throw the football within three yards before or after the line of scrimmage, does the quarterback who is handing the ball off over and over really matter?

If the goal is to have a good offense, yes, I would the answer is yes.

 

[Peat]

There is a huge difference between the average players picked around 10 and players picked around 20.

I would put talent into tiers.

Top five.

Five to around eleven.

Twelve to around nineteen.

Twenty to the top five or so picks of the second round.

As for the value of playoff experience for young players, you need to know who these players are first. Especially whether KP is the future or you need to go elsewhere. We are miles from needing to just get young players experience. The Steelers are still deep in the evaluation stage.

Nah. Things needs to bottom out so that real changes are made.

I'm not saying it's the thing to hope for per se.

Just I don't think it's nothing either. Whatever happens next with the Steelers, guys like Porter and Jones and Highsmith and Fitzpatrick are going to be part of things barring the sort of massive rebuild that destroys a team's culture and risks decades of bottom dwelling.

It's not like the the team going 0-4 for the rest of the season guarantees real change either, or that a high pick doesn't get screwed up (and even with a 0-4, we are potentially picking from the third tier of talent). It increases the chances but the Steelers are perfectly capable of leaving us thinking "we went through all that for nothing".

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

You think those guys would be doing that here though?

Or do you think they'd be failing like Trubisky?

To me, this is all cart before the horse. Other orgs can just pick up guys from where ever and plug them in and it's fine. This org can take a 50 plus game guy who's been to the Pro Bowl and been with the org for a season and a half and make him look like absolute crap. If playing QB in this day and age is the easiest it's even been, the Steelers are a true buck the trend throwback.

When that's happening, I don't start side eying Pickett's work. I start - well, continue to, but with greater intensity - side eying the org's work and asking whether they could make it work with anything other than an absolutely can't miss situation there.

I think Flacco or someone like that would be performing above what we've seen Mitch and KP w/ the Steelers. Would he be accomplishing AS MUCH? Probably not.

So if KP/Mitch performed at a 4 out of 10. ANd Flacco with his new team put up a 7, I think you could say he'd be in the midpoint (5.5) within the confines of this Steelers offense.

Look at some of my earlier posts with the Youtube vids. There are receivers open, KP can't decipher who is coming open. Mitch can do that, but he throws off his back fooot and rushes the pass.

So if you could somehow combine those 2, you'd probably have a decent QB.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

If the goal is to have a good offense, yes, I would the answer is yes.

Every indication is that the current Steeler's philosophy has zero goal of a 'good' offense. The goal is an offense that does not hurt the defenses ability to eek out a win for the team.

Tomlin, and virtually everyone involved, has said as much.

And does anyone see this changing? Until it changes, who cares who the figurehead we call a quarterback is? Hell, I could hand the ball off over and over and fail over and over as much as anyone can. And I would do it for a lot less.