OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Super Bowl? Thats like a giant pot of chips or popcorn right?

[Pengwins]

That does seem like a good idea to trade up with the Eagles to #10. D Wright is getting hyped up big time now. There is a chance that all these guys are drafted before #17:

O-Line: Skoronski, Paris Johnson, Broderick Jones, Darnell Wright
CB: Gonzalez, Witherspoon, JPJ

 

[Peat]

I want to see them trade up from 17, using a mix of trade down from 49/80 (but still getting picks in return) and future picks -

and trade down from 32 to get something in the 4th-6th

I also want them to address OT, CB, and ED fairly early, and get a TE with potential to block a bit like Gentry but be a lot more in the pass game.

As you can see, I'm quite undemanding.

 

[Andy99]

I’m the opposite—not interested in seeing them move up even if tackles and corners are flying off the shelves…that just means Van Ness maybe available at #17 and I really like him…I also really like that we have 4 picks in the top 80

 

[Peat]

I’m the opposite—not interested in seeing them move up even if tackles and corners are flying off the shelves…that just means Van Ness maybe available at #17 and I really like him…I also really like that we have 4 picks in the top 80

I get that.

But if this team wants to upgrade on Moore and Okorafor, its options run like this

1) Get lucky on a premium target in FA and spend like mad
2) Get lucky on a developmental guy drafted later
3) Draft in about the top 12. Which means either sucking at some point, or trade up at some point.

Trading up now while the team has an abundance of early capital and is as close to the top 12 as we want to be for a long time seems the most logical option.


Not that unusual to see Van Ness gone even in a scenario where all the OL go either. Right now the best guess seems to be that in the 16 picks ahead of us, you'll see for almost sure -

4 QBs (Young, Stroud, Richardson, Levis)
3 OLs (Johnson, Skoronski, B Jones)
2 CBs (Gonzalez, Witherspoon)
2 EDs (Anderson, Wilson)
1 DL (Carter)

And then in those remaining 4 picks, you usually see a mix of CBs, EDs, and OLs. Sometimes there's one skill player. But seeing Van Ness' name there is pretty usual.

I did want to stay put. But I've seen too many mocks where the Steelers' options are guys like Joey Porter, Deonte Banks, and Myles Murphy to be happy with that.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Wright making it to 32 is not realistic, imo. Pretty much every mock has him going before 20 and most have him going before 17. He has rocketed up the boards because many teams do not consider Skoronski as an OT.

My perfect (realistic) scenario would be:

1:17 Darnell Wright/Broderick Jones
2:01 Will MacDonald/Bryan Bresee
2:49 Cam Smith/Julius Brents
3:80 Sydney Brown/Trenton Simpson
4:120 Davis Allen/Luke Schoonmaker/Tucker Kraft

 

[Ryder71]

I’m the opposite—not interested in seeing them move up even if tackles and corners are flying off the shelves…that just means Van Ness maybe available at #17 and I really like him…I also really like that we have 4 picks in the top 80

Van Ness is a very nice player and I certainly wouldn't mind him, but I think we have more pressing needs. I really think offensive tackle is the most important matter to address here. And as I mentioned previously we could still get a really good corner in the second round., I am hoping we trade up.

 

[Andy99]

I get that.

But if this team wants to upgrade on Moore and Okorafor, its options run like this

1) Get lucky on a premium target in FA and spend like mad
2) Get lucky on a developmental guy drafted later
3) Draft in about the top 12. Which means either sucking at some point, or trade up at some point.

Trading up now while the team has an abundance of early capital and is as close to the top 12 as we want to be for a long time seems the most logical option.


Not that unusual to see Van Ness gone even in a scenario where all the OL go either. Right now the best guess seems to be that in the 16 picks ahead of us, you'll see for almost sure -

4 QBs (Young, Stroud, Richardson, Levis)
3 OLs (Johnson, Skoronski, B Jones)
2 CBs (Gonzalez, Witherspoon)
2 EDs (Anderson, Wilson)
1 DL (Carter)

And then in those remaining 4 picks, you usually see a mix of CBs, EDs, and OLs. Sometimes there's one skill player. But seeing Van Ness' name there is pretty usual.

I did want to stay put. But I've seen too many mocks where the Steelers' options are guys like Joey Porter, Deonte Banks, and Myles Murphy to be happy with that.

Your scenario leaves Wright there too, which would be great…Madden for what it’s worth thinks the Steelers will choose from Wright, JPJ and Banks at 17 and that they would happy with all 3…they better take Wright if that’s the case lol

 

[Ryder71]

Your scenario leaves Wright there too, which would be great…Madden for what it’s worth thinks the Steelers will choose from Wright, JPJ and Banks at 17 and that they would happy with all 3…they better take Wright if that’s the case lol

Wright at 17 would be great. And I agree if he's there and Jones is gone they better take him!

 

[Peat]

Your scenario leaves Wright there too, which would be great…Madden for what it’s worth thinks the Steelers will choose from Wright, JPJ and Banks at 17 and that they would happy with all 3…they better take Wright if that’s the case lol

Wright is a pretty typical member of those last 4 names. Not always, not enough for me to call him a definite, but I'm expecting him to be gone.

If he is there, grab him. It's not that I'm anti-CB, or even a guy like Van Ness or Murphy, but I think if you look at the draft, you're screwed if you want a contribute now OT and miss out at 17. CB and Edge are going to keep throwing players up until the 3rd.

 

[xlm34]

Based on what people are saying from Khan’s press conference today, it sounds like the Steelers are very, very open for business with the 32nd pick, which I guess isn’t all that surprising.

In non Steelers news, things are apparently leaning towards the Texans not selecting a QB. This is shaping up to be a really fun draft.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Not saying I agree with either of them, just that my gut tells me that's what we're gonna do.

I have no idea what to expect from this regime, my guess is if Weidl is setting the board and they follow it closely, a guy like Ringo won't be valued highly.

But that's just a feeling I get from researching what Weidl values.

Based on what people are saying from Khan’s press conference today, it sounds like the Steelers are very, very open for business with the 32nd pick, which I guess isn’t all that surprising.

In non Steelers news, things are apparently leaning towards the Texans not selecting a QB. This is shaping up to be a really fun draft.

I expect him to trade out of either 17 or 32 based on the hints he's giving.

Maybe even both ie if he trades up from 17, I suspect he will want to recoup a pick and leverage 32 for an extra pick.

Either way, this should be a fun draft for Steeler fans with these picks and a new GM who is a self-dubbed "aggressive" GM.

 

[OnMyOwn]

IMO you do what you need to get one of these tackles. Don’t care if it’s LT or RT, you need to protect Kenny and hopefully this is as high as we pick for the next several years, making it easier to move up now.

 

[Peat]

Both at the NFL Combine and since, The Athletic has heard from several NFL coaches who say they’ve noticed a difference in the development of the draft prospects in regard to physical and emotional maturity. Some pointed to the impact of the transfer portal as a reason for it.

“These guys are really raw,” said one offensive line coach. “(I) think that shows in the quality of play and the type of guys we’re getting. These guys are young. This year, there was a lot of no response, or ‘Hey, hit my agent,’ when we reached out to speak to the linemen. That was surprising. It’s like something you hear about with the wide receivers, but that kind of attitude is eeking its way into the O-line group.”

The offensive line coach I spoke with did not think this was a strong group.

Feldman's NFL Draft confidential: Coaches on 'Draft Dinging' Stroud, weak WRs, sleeper QBs

From Anthony Richardson's "highest ceiling" to "clear-cut" best safety Brian Branch, NFL folks get candid about the Class of 2023.

theathletic.com

Well that's nice and encouraging.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Both at the NFL Combine and since, The Athletic has heard from several NFL coaches who say they’ve noticed a difference in the development of the draft prospects in regard to physical and emotional maturity. Some pointed to the impact of the transfer portal as a reason for it.

“These guys are really raw,” said one offensive line coach. “(I) think that shows in the quality of play and the type of guys we’re getting. These guys are young. This year, there was a lot of no response, or ‘Hey, hit my agent,’ when we reached out to speak to the linemen. That was surprising. It’s like something you hear about with the wide receivers, but that kind of attitude is eeking its way into the O-line group.”

The offensive line coach I spoke with did not think this was a strong group.

Feldman's NFL Draft confidential: Coaches on 'Draft Dinging' Stroud, weak WRs, sleeper QBs

From Anthony Richardson's "highest ceiling" to "clear-cut" best safety Brian Branch, NFL folks get candid about the Class of 2023.

theathletic.com

Well that's nice and encouraging.

Echoing my exact concerns about JPJ:

DB coach 2: “You like his length but I think he’s stiff. If he doesn’t win at the line of scrimmage, he’s in trouble. He gets stacked on vertical routes.”

Really hoping someone takes him before Steelers do that Tomlin buddy thing.

 

[Andy99]

Echoing my exact concerns about JPJ:



Really hoping someone takes him before Steelers do that Tomlin buddy thing.

Yeah, they absolutely should not take a corner in round one unless it’s Gonzalez or Witherspoon…I think Banks is next on the Steelers draft board over JPJ just because his athletic traits are better and you know how much Tomlin loves that lol, but taking him at 17 is way too high…

 

[OnMyOwn]

I dunno. I’d still be ok with him. I think he’s Ike with slightly better hands. He’s considered a first round talent so I don’t hold much stock in the nepotism aspect.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I want to see them trade up from 17, using a mix of trade down from 49/80 (but still getting picks in return) and future picks -

and trade down from 32 to get something in the 4th-6th

I also want them to address OT, CB, and ED fairly early, and get a TE with potential to block a bit like Gentry but be a lot more in the pass game.

As you can see, I'm quite undemanding.

Yeah I think the ideal setup is something like:

-Picks #17 and #49 (1360 value) for pick #9 (1350 value)
-Pick #32 (590 value) for pick #48 and pick #81 (605 value)

Basically trade up into the top-10 with your 1st and later 2nd, and then get an additional 3rd in a trade by moving down from your high 2nd to a mid 2nd.

 

[Peat]

I go back and forth on Porter, but I think I'm trying to talk myself into not being down on him in case he's the guy. Yeah, he's a consensus legit guy in the range. Yeah, he's got intriguing tools.

But when I see people talk about him, I feel like I'm not hearing about a guy who should be cast iron top 20. I compare him to Deonte Banks and yeah, Banks hasn't got the massive wingspan or freaky college numbers, but Banks has much better explosiveness and long speed. Otherwise they seem pretty similar. Banks isn't quite nailed on top 20, why is Porter?

I'd be happier if we didn't go there I think. I'll be real happy if we get him as a faller at 32, but at 17... Porter is on my list of "okay you got a legit guy so I'm not mad but I am disappointed it went like this".

Yeah I think the ideal setup is something like:

-Picks #17 and #49 (1360 value) for pick #9 (1350 value)
-Pick #32 (590 value) for pick #48 and pick #81 (605 value)

Basically trade up into the top-10 with your 1st and later 2nd, and then get an additional 3rd in a trade by moving down from your high 2nd to a mid 2nd.

This isn't quite how I'd like to do it. I'd prefer to only go up to 11 or 12 and sacrifice less value. I don't have a guy at 9 I have to have, I just want a tackle before the Jets and Pats go through them all.

I'd also want to only drop about 10 spots from 32. I think there's a drop off around 45, and I don't want to be below. I'd be more than okay with just moving down a few spots for the 5th. I don't want to lose out on the chance to get guys who could have been 1st rounders sliding out entirely.

 

[Andy99]

Players the Steelers should take at #17 if Johnson, Jones, Witherspoon and Gonzalez are all taken (those should be their four targets but let’s say they can’t trade up): 1) any D lineman/edge rusher that might fall who they have a round one grade on, such as Carter, Smith, Van Ness; 2) Wright and 3) Banks

that’s what’s going to be available to them…hopefully not a WR or RB but they need to follow their draft board…otherwise, try to trade down but not out of the first round…

 

[Andy99]

I go back and forth on Porter, but I think I'm trying to talk myself into not being down on him in case he's the guy. Yeah, he's a consensus legit guy in the range. Yeah, he's got intriguing tools.

But when I see people talk about him, I feel like I'm not hearing about a guy who should be cast iron top 20. I compare him to Deonte Banks and yeah, Banks hasn't got the massive wingspan or freaky college numbers, but Banks has much better explosiveness and long speed. Otherwise they seem pretty similar. Banks isn't quite nailed on top 20, why is Porter?

I'd be happier if we didn't go there I think. I'll be real happy if we get him as a faller at 32, but at 17... Porter is on my list of "okay you got a legit guy so I'm not mad but I am disappointed it went like this".



This isn't quite how I'd like to do it. I'd prefer to only go up to 11 or 12 and sacrifice less value. I don't have a guy at 9 I have to have, I just want a tackle before the Jets and Pats go through them all.

I'd also want to only drop about 10 spots from 32. I think there's a drop off around 45, and I don't want to be below. I'd be more than okay with just moving down a few spots for the 5th. I don't want to lose out on the chance to get guys who could have been 1st rounders sliding out entirely.

Yeah, tend to agree, but my feeling is IF they trade up (and should not be to 9 unless it costs the same as trading to 12-13), they have to be committed to trading the #32 pick…my reasoning is that they have too many needs for better players and competition at a number of positions and they don’t have many third day picks…if they lose a draft pick trading up in round one, they really need to replenish…they really need those four picks in the first two days of the draft

 

[Peat]

Speaking of trading, Rodgers is now a Jet, which includes a swap of 1st round picks, which maybe opens up trading to 13 to get ahead of the Jets.

 

[xlm34]

Players the Steelers should take at #17 if Johnson, Jones, Witherspoon and Gonzalez are all taken (those should be their four targets but let’s say they can’t trade up): 1) any D lineman/edge rusher that might fall who they have a round one grade on, such as Carter, Smith, Van Ness; 2) Wright and 3) Banks

that’s what’s going to be available to them…hopefully not a WR or RB but they need to follow their draft board…otherwise, try to trade down but not out of the first round…

I’m so iffy on someone like Van Ness. He’s so just total projection at this point since there’s no clear position for him right now.

He’s either going to need to add 20 pounds to play DT or lose weight and develop way more as a pass rushed to play EDGE. They kind of already have a tweener in Leal.

 

[Peat]

Yeah, tend to agree, but my feeling is IF they trade up (and should not be to 9 unless it costs the same as trading to 12-13), they have to be committed to trading the #32 pick…my reasoning is that they have too many needs for better players and competition at a number of positions and they don’t have many third day picks…if they lose a draft pick trading up in round one, they really need to replenish…they really need those four picks in the first two days of the draft

I don't think they need to lose a pick tbh. As Jiggy mentioned, the mooted Chicago deal was 17 + 32 for 9 and 60-something. I don't love that, but you've still got as many picks as when you started.

There's potential to do that with any trade up. 17 + 49 for 11 + 60something with the Titans is pretty balanced. You could work out something similar with Houston or Green Bay.

I also don't think they can be committed to trading 32 until they see there. Like what if there's a shock and Darnell Wright or Lukas Van Ness is still there at 32? You gonna say "wellp, this is the plan, hope someone else enjoys them"? Or do you commit highway robbery?

I would love to trade down a few times to get more picks, but even doing that there's still going to be holes. I can live with plugging one less than expected.

I’m so iffy on someone like Van Ness. He’s so just total projection at this point since there’s no clear position for him right now.

He’s either going to need to add 20 pounds to play DT or lose weight and develop way more as a pass rushed to play EDGE. They kind of already have a tweener in Leal.

So I agree on being iffy on Van Ness as a projection, but...

I think he could play Edge as is. His athletic numbers look fine.

I also think something you've got to ask is are the Steelers going to start rethinking their EDGE usage? I think given how often the Steelers are in nickel and dime, their defront front isn't a 3 man, it's a 4 man - two OLBs playing as DEs, two DEs playing as DTs. Its not like Watt is dropping into coverage any more.

At what point do you say that's what we play, lets recruit different?

 

[JTG]

Really sounds like Khan is going to be listening closely to offers for 32.

A team like the Lions could want a QB. Their picks 48 and 55 for 32 and 80 is almost equal value in the value chart.

 

[JTG]

Peter King has the Steelers taking JSN. I'll probably not like the pick if there are tackles and corners on the board that are of a similar value, but holy shit would that offense be unreal with JSN in the slot. I think they could legitimately look at flipping DJ if that happens.

He didn't see a lot of looks from Kenny last year, and if they give him a possession guy like JSN, those looks are going WAY down.