OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Super Bowl? Thats like a giant pot of chips or popcorn right?

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Kinda tangential and probably not happening, but The Athletic does occasionally say teams think Houston might pass QB by and wait another year. Obviously there's a risk they wouldn't be as high again, but they do generally suck and have 10 picks including two 1sts for moving up if needed.



Interesting to compare on a site that uses numerical grading.

And here



Interesting to see the concerns on Pickett being a one year wonder on both when Levis and Richardson are both no year wonders.

I would give a lot to see a bunch of NFL personnel talk talent ID, development, and so on and find out what's really going on when this happens.

edit: p.s. Pickett vs Mills - I dunno how Mills has been used in Houston, but it's very clear Pickett has been used highly conservatively here and that if you're looking at counting stats there's obvious room to develop.
 
Kinda tangential and probably not happening, but The Athletic does occasionally say teams think Houston might pass QB by and wait another year. Obviously there's a risk they wouldn't be as high again, but they do generally suck and have 10 picks including two 1sts for moving up if needed.



Interesting to see the concerns on Pickett being a one year wonder on both when Levis and Richardson are both no year wonders.

I would give a lot to see a bunch of NFL personnel talk talent ID, development, and so on and find out what's really going on when this happens.

edit: p.s. Pickett vs Mills - I dunno how Mills has been used in Houston, but it's very clear Pickett has been used highly conservatively here and that if you're looking at counting stats there's obvious room to develop.

I really think the small hands stigma is why teams passed on KP.

I kept watching all of his snaps his final season and kept seeing a guy who has everything you could ask for in a QB.

The only question marks were his age (stupid), not having an elite arm (whatever) and a genetic mutation that made his hands so small, Carolina Panther execs stared in wonder that he could even hold a football like an adult male:

kennypickett_hands.png

Bah Gawd, what dark magic is this!
 
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Yeah it's kinda weird to see NFL scouts so high on Levis and Richardson after knocking Pickett for a lack of established track record. As a junior and senior, Levis had a 43-23 TD-INT ratio with a 65.7% completion%. Pickett in his last 2 years with Pitt had a 55-16 TD-INT ratio with a 64.8% completion%. Why does one project to be a top-5 pick while the other one fell to the 20s? Levis isn't even young either, he's turning 24 later this year and is the same age that Pickett was when he was drafted.

I honestly don't see a justification for either Levis or Richardson going in the top-10 in the draft this year. I like both Stroud and Young as high picks, but what do the other 2 have? Levis is 24 and didn't have a single season on par with Pickett's senior season at Pitt. Richardson is a total project that very likely needs another year or two in college. I think the Steelers taking Pickett at 20 is insanely better value than any team using a top-10 pick on either Levis or Richardson.
 
Interesting to see the concerns on Pickett being a one year wonder on both when Levis and Richardson are both no year wonders.

I would give a lot to see a bunch of NFL personnel talk talent ID, development, and so on and find out what's really going on when this happens.
I honestly just buy the theory that it’s the hardest position in sports and there’s only so many guys on planet earth at a time to play it at a high level. Makes it impossible to scout unless they’re already in the league and obviously with the draft they’re not.

It’s pretty crazy when you think about it. QB needs to read a defense and throw a ball to moving target on a pinpoint location, while keeping an eye on massive humans that can fly trying to tackle him. He’s gotta navigate his own lineman while doing it. And 5 seconds is too slow.

There’s probably no rhyme or reason- doesn’t help that the teams who get it right don’t need to do it again for 15 years.

I think of the 2018 Draft as a good case study. Baker probably was the most productive of the bunch. Darnold the best combo of tools, tape and numbers. Rosen not far after him. Allen a complete project with a freaky arm. Then Lamar as another project with a freaky arm and legs and crazy production, but the tape was super raw QB wise. Allen and Jackson became the best QBs. Then probably Baker who was short and from a spread offense. The two safer pro-looking guys with size and good tape busted. Just shows you how hard it is.
 
I honestly don't see a justification for either Levis or Richardson going in the top-10 in the draft this year. I like both Stroud and Young as high picks, but what do the other 2 have? Levis is 24 and didn't have a single season on par with Pickett's senior season at Pitt. Richardson is a total project that very likely needs another year or two in college. I think the Steelers taking Pickett at 20 is insanely better value than any team using a top-10 pick on either Levis or Richardson.
I understand the appeal of Richardson. If you can develop the talent- he’s like Allen on roids which is crazy to say. He wasn’t very good at Florida but the physical tools are actually a joke. Like maybe best ever.


Add the arm and you have a ball of clay with talent that can’t be taught. In the era of Herbert, Mahomes, Allen… I do get it.

Levis… idk man. He’s got the arm and release to make us look dumb but I’m with you. Idk how you get excited about taking him top 5, but I guess the same was said about Herbert by some.
 
I understand the appeal of Richardson. If you can develop the talent- he’s like Allen on roids which is crazy to say. He wasn’t very good at Florida but the physical tools are actually a joke. Like maybe best ever.


Add the arm and you have a ball of clay with talent that can’t be taught. In the era of Herbert, Mahomes, Allen… I do get it.

Levis… idk man. He’s got the arm and release to make us look dumb but I’m with you. Idk how you get excited about taking him top 5, but I guess the same was said about Herbert by some.

I think Richardson's athleticism is super appealing, but you still need to know how to play QB to have success in the NFL. I think he'd be a consensus 1st pick if he stayed in college for another year or two, but I think he's really rushing to the NFL by declaring for the draft this year. I don't know that he'll develop more as a QB as a backup or third string in the NFL than as a starter in college. I wouldn't use a high pick on him for that exact reason. The athleticism is absurd, but the dude just can't play QB at a NFL level yet.
 
I think Richardson's athleticism is super appealing, but you still need to know how to play QB to have success in the NFL. I think he'd be a consensus 1st pick if he stayed in college for another year or two, but I think he's really rushing to the NFL by declaring for the draft this year. I don't know that he'll develop more as a QB as a backup or third string in the NFL than as a starter in college. I wouldn't use a high pick on him for that exact reason. The athleticism is absurd, but the dude just can't play QB at a NFL level yet.
Imo the logic is this-

No matter what guy you take they’re likely not gonna be the star QB you hope they can be (just based on the odds).. If Richardson hits then you have a superstar if he busts it’s still the same outcome as a “safer” pick busting.

Not what I’d do but I get the line of thinking. Makes more sense to me than taking Levis in the top 5 at least.
 
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I honestly just buy the theory that it’s the hardest position in sports and there’s only so many guys on planet earth at a time to play it at a high level. Makes it impossible to scout unless they’re already in the league and obviously with the draft they’re not.

It’s pretty crazy when you think about it. QB needs to read a defense and throw a ball to moving target on a pinpoint location, while keeping an eye on massive humans that can fly trying to tackle him. He’s gotta navigate his own lineman while doing it. And 5 seconds is too slow.

There’s probably no rhyme or reason- doesn’t help that the teams who get it right don’t need to do it again for 15 years.

I think of the 2018 Draft as a good case study. Baker probably was the most productive of the bunch. Darnold the best combo of tools, tape and numbers. Rosen not far after him. Allen a complete project with a freaky arm. Then Lamar as another project with a freaky arm and legs and crazy production, but the tape was super raw QB wise. Allen and Jackson became the best QBs. Then probably Baker who was short and from a spread offense. The two safer pro-looking guys with size and good tape busted. Just shows you how hard it is.

I agree with a bunch of this but it does look to me like they complicate it. I don't have any proof but it looks to me like there's a bunch of guys making decisions who are looking for football players at QB when the QBs are basically playing a whole different sport to everyone else that just happens to be on the same pitch. It's like picking fighter pilots by running special forces training. As you say, the crazy thing about being a QB is the need to be stupidly aware while allying that to uncanny accuracy. Then you go and read a bunch of profiles raving about how far a guy can throw a ball, how fast he can run... those things aren't nothing, but I don't get how the sport is where it is there. It'd be like if every year, they drafted a bunch of WRs who couldn't really catch or run routes but boy are they great athletes and once you build the hands off of that blocking...

Introducing the S2 Cognition test that helps predict NFL quarterback success - this article fascinated me. It's basically some company does a mental processing test - how quickly do you spot and react to a pattern - which they claim is very predictive of passer rating. The test has apparently been in use since 2015 and 14 NFL teams use it.

Anyway, apparently Brock Purdy got a gigantic score on it. I dunno whether the draft testing is shared with teams but if Purdy's got elite scores on this, how comes he lasts to the 7th? Even if teams don't have this data... how comes they're not learning to hunt what that sort of thing looks like?

One thing in this class' favour - apparently it has fantastic scores on this test. But we don't know who (other than Bryce Young). What odds those scores belong to guys like Haener and Hooker who teams aren't salivating over because they don't have rocket arms on giant bodies? And hey, maybe they do. Apparently Josh Allen has an elite score. If Richardson or Levis have one, if their lack of college production is something else, that's different... but I dunno, feels reachy.

Also apparently only one other guy in last year's draft had an elite score. I hope that was Pickett... and if it wasn't, I wonder if we'll start seeing problems making reads over the next couple years. The conservatism of the offence made it real hard to see what he is there. We know the guy has a ton of character and guts, and we know he can be very accurate in the right situation. The reads...

What you said to Empo about the superstar or bust mentality might be right too. The difficulty of constructing a winning team around a guy on a non-rookie contract. But, still, they just don't seem to get what a superstar is. The two biggest superstars at QB recently are Brady and Mahomes. They ain't fast and they ain't big, so why do we think Richardson looking like an edge rusher gives him a ceiling like them?
 
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Yeah it's kinda weird to see NFL scouts so high on Levis and Richardson after knocking Pickett for a lack of established track record. As a junior and senior, Levis had a 43-23 TD-INT ratio with a 65.7% completion%. Pickett in his last 2 years with Pitt had a 55-16 TD-INT ratio with a 64.8% completion%. Why does one project to be a top-5 pick while the other one fell to the 20s? Levis isn't even young either, he's turning 24 later this year and is the same age that Pickett was when he was drafted.

I honestly don't see a justification for either Levis or Richardson going in the top-10 in the draft this year. I like both Stroud and Young as high picks, but what do the other 2 have? Levis is 24 and didn't have a single season on par with Pickett's senior season at Pitt. Richardson is a total project that very likely needs another year or two in college. I think the Steelers taking Pickett at 20 is insanely better value than any team using a top-10 pick on either Levis or Richardson.

Yeah Levis I just don’t get at all. He’s got a cannon and I guess looks like a quarterback? I don’t know though. Pickett does literally everything else better. I know people kind of wave away last year for Levis because Kentucky didn’t have a great roster, but Pickett dealt with bad rosters until his breakout year.

I hope Richardson works out because he would be so fun to watch. So in a sense I somewhat get him. But the chances of that happening to me are almost zero.
 
Because if Carolina takes Stroud it’s between 5’10 130lbs Bryce Young and complete projects in Levis and Richardson for their QB of the future.

Or they could risk punting to next year, and possibly not drafting in the top 3-5.

Hence why they’d consider sending it for Pickett. And also why the Steelers likely decline.
I understand them taking a Qb I am replying to the they would trade for KP statement

They havent
Ok I guess one guy has 30 Tds and the other has 7
 
Yeah Levis I just don’t get at all. He’s got a cannon and I guess looks like a quarterback? I don’t know though. Pickett does literally everything else better. I know people kind of wave away last year for Levis because Kentucky didn’t have a great roster, but Pickett dealt with bad rosters until his breakout year.

I hope Richardson works out because he would be so fun to watch. So in a sense I somewhat get him. But the chances of that happening to me are almost zero.
Because they are 23 you can talk yourself into upside we drafted mac jones 2.0 the guy with safest floor Will and Anthony will need to sit n learn
 
Why they have gotten more out Mills than we did with KP


They aren’t trading up they are doing due diligence so they can go Cb/ot 17 the other 32 pass rusher is the fall back if the top 3 OT or Cbs are gone

How did they get more out of Mills? I guess if you don’t care about little things like wins and all, sure.

Mills was in his second year and didn’t really improve over his first season.

KP posted more wins in his last six starts (6) than Mills has in two seasons (5).

Houston would probably pass on him a third time, because why not.

But it’s absurd to say that the Texans have gotten more out of a guy who holds a 5-19 record vs a rookie who came in and won his last six starts and posted a 7-5 record overall.
 
Because they are 23 you can talk yourself into upside we drafted mac jones 2.0 the guy with safest floor Will and Anthony will need to sit n learn

I really don’t see many similarities with Mac Jones. He’s Mac Jones 2.0 if Mac Jones were able to actually create out of structure and didn’t throw tantrums on the sidelines when things didn’t go his way.
 
How did they get more out of Mills? I guess if you don’t care about little things like wins and all, sure.

Mills was in his second year and didn’t really improve over his first season.

KP posted more wins in his last six starts (6) than Mills has in two seasons (5).

Houston would probably pass on him a third time, because why not.

But it’s absurd to say that the Texans have gotten more out of a guy who holds a 5-19 record vs a rookie who came in and won his last six starts and posted a 7-5 record overall.
Sure KP has a winning record but had 7 tds had zero games with 2 tds passing the Texans roster is terrible

I really don’t see many similarities with Mac Jones. He’s Mac Jones 2.0 if Mac Jones were able to actually create out of structure and didn’t throw tantrums on the sidelines when things didn’t go his way.
Mac jones was the best plug in play in his class he was maxed out kp was drafted because he was the same reason
 
Sure KP has a winning record but had 7 tds had zero games with 2 tds passing the Texans roster is terrible


Mac jones was the best plug in play in his class he was maxed out kp was drafted because he was the same reason

KP won because he played smart ball and only turned the ball over once in his last eight games. He also made big plays when he had to, which is all you can ask from a rookie QB.

Mills is a turnover machine with 29 total TO in his 2 yr career. That doesn't help his team win games.

I agree the Texans wouldn't draft KP if given a third chance or swap their first for KP, because bad org do bad org things, so I won't argue that point.

I just can't agree the Texans got more out of a guy with 5 wins in 25 tries, vs a guy who won his last six starts.

There is just no logic when one assumes, correctly, that wins are what matter most in this league.
 
And our offense was and a possibly still is laughable. When a ding dong runs the plays, it’s kind of hard to blame the QB entirely.
 
KP won because he played smart ball and only turned the ball over once in his last eight games. He also made big plays when he had to, which is all you can ask from a rookie QB.

Mills is a turnover machine with 29 total TO in his 2 yr career. That doesn't help his team win games.

I agree the Texans wouldn't draft KP if given a third chance or swap their first for KP, because bad org do bad org things, so I won't argue that point.

I just can't agree the Texans got more out of a guy with 5 wins in 25 tries, vs a guy who won his last six starts.

There is just no logic when one assumes, correctly, that wins are what matter most in this league.
Wins are a team stat not a Qb stat I think KP will improve he is a hard worker

And our offense was and a possibly still is laughable. When a ding dong runs the plays, it’s kind of hard to blame the QB entirely.
The offense couldn’t function in basic dumb down college offense. I don’t blame the Qb entirely they couldn’t do rpo without line men down field. The wr group wasn’t interchangeable and they couldn’t line up all over. They need to play DJ and GP in the slot sometimes for mismatches. I am loving the reports they are working out together because thats how they will get better
 
And our offense was and a possibly still is laughable. When a ding dong runs the plays, it’s kind of hard to blame the QB entirely.

To me, Canada should be given 6 games. If he doesn't have this offense functioning with more than 21 PPG then he should be fired.

I realize he WON"T be fired, but that's what should happen
 


It looks like Edmunds won’t be back. I’m kind of conflicted about it. I don’t hate the idea of trying to upgrade but I also think you can do a lot worse.

It goes back to what someone said in here earlier I think. The new regime isn’t afraid to let the average players go. Which is kind of a nice approach after what we’ve seen from the Penguins lately.
 
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It looks like Edmunds won’t be back. I’m kind of conflicted about it. I don’t hate the idea of trying to upgrade but I also think you can do a lot worse.

It goes back to what someone said in here earlier I think. The new regime isn’t afraid to let the average players go. Which is kind of a nice approach after what we’ve seen from the Penguins lately.

It’s weird Safety isn’t getting paid he is solid and reliable and Minka loves him you would think they reach an agreement
 
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Bruh Mac Jones makes KP look like Lamar Jackson. He’s so much more talented at extending plays and is a much better athlete. Better arm too imo.
That’s great jones in the pocket can win and play in structure that’s the number 1 thing that matters and helps with success. When plays breaks down sure you want the tools to extend plays but he still found away to throw 22 tds as a rookie and go 10-7 that is what I expected from KP
 
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