OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Super Bowl? Thats like a giant pot of chips or popcorn right?

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Eh I can't measure young* QB's by wins. They typically are only seeing the field bc their team sucks and to be fair to Fields, that's the hand he's been dealt with.

But I don't see anything about his arm or decision making to make me believe he's on the cusp of anything except for a season ending injury. Yea he's a great runner but we've seen this fish before and how that translates into being a good QB or leading your team to any playoff wins.

_____________________
*My original reply said "rookie QB". "Young QB" is the more apt description for Fields

I can, and do.

While there are other factors I look at like his ability to read a D, accuracy and intangibles, a guy that starts out with a W-L that ugly, rarely turns into a good-great QB.

Over the last 35+ yrs, Aikman from what I recall was the only QB to ever bounce back from an atrocious W-L record over his first two seasons. He started like 0-11 then went 7-9 after that and was on his way.

There might be a guy in there I’m forgetting about, but it’s incredibly rare to see a young QB only win 5 of his first 25 games and go on to a successful career.

The good young QBs usually start putting things together in year two and finding ways to win even with shitty teams around them.

Then by year 3 they break out.

 

[Peat]

Given how up and down young QBs seem to be, I'm not really seeing much point at ranking them anyway. Like it's roughly fair enough today, but one of them will take off and make it look foolish, and is that list predictive? Nah.

Also, while I don't blame Fields for Chicago being awful, I wouldn't want to bet on a guy who hasn't had a real team to throw to or hide behind for 2 years. That's a lot of bad development time.

 

[JTG]

Your not actually listening to his argument.

Even if Branch is ed reed lite. That means hes (by definition) worse. So you take a elite safety and make him a very good safety.

Ike Taylor was a very good corner.

If JPJ is Ike Taylor you are now comparing a very good corner to a very good safety. And CB has more positional value.

Now there is a lot, A LOT, of grey area in analysis like player x lite, great or very good. But if we are doing broad strokes a step down from a great safety is comparable to a very good corner.

This is one of the dumbest analysis I have actually read on this forum. Whatever...he's Ed Reed lite or Ike Taylor lite, or whatever people want them to be.

 

[cookthebooks]

This is one of the dumbest analysis I have actually read on this forum. Whatever...he's Ed Reed lite or Ike Taylor lite, or whatever people want them to be.

you really are a gatekeeping moron on this thread. what a waste of time

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I can, and do.

While there are other factors I look at like his ability to read a D, accuracy and intangibles, a guy that starts out with a W-L that ugly, rarely turns into a good-great QB.

Over the last 35+ yrs, Aikman from what I recall was the only QB to ever bounce back from an atrocious W-L record over his first two seasons. He started like 0-11 then went 7-9 after that and was on his way.

There might be a guy in there I’m forgetting about, but it’s incredibly rare to see a young QB only win 5 of his first 25 games and go on to a successful career.

The good young QBs usually start putting things together in year two and finding ways to win even with shitty teams around them.

Then by year 3 they break out.

I believe P Manning was 1-15 his rookie year.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

This is one of the dumbest analysis I have actually read on this forum. Whatever...he's Ed Reed lite or Ike Taylor lite, or whatever people want them to be.

Its ok to just say you didnt understand it the first time. (Which you clearly didnt)

Because the broad strokes concept is accurate whether you agree with the player comps or not. (Which i dont).

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I believe P Manning was 1-15 his rookie year.

3-13 and then went 13-3 the next year.

If you look at the best QBs of the 80s-2010s, none of them ever had just 5 wins after their first two starting seasons.

Aikman like I said had one of the worst rookie years in history at 0-11 and he went and won 7 in year two.

Steve Young is about the only other one I can think of who became a legit good QB after barely winning his first couple seasons.

One could easily argue moving from TB to SF was why he started winning, but he’s the only name I can even come up with and that goes all the way back to ‘86.

I’m pretty sure the reason Fields isn’t winning that much is because of the exact reasons you listed - meh arm, bad decision making and I’ll add accuracy issues and funky mechanics/throwing motion.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

yup. and id take KP over Purdy as well

I was coming to say this.

The Fields thing in the NFL is funny. He's getting really bad coaching, for one. He wasn't a running QB in college. He was a guy like KP, frankly, who could move but was a thrower. Fields wasn't particularly accurate but he wasn't a liability in the accuracy department either. It could be his ability to read a defense is what's holding him back in Chicago - I don't watch enough to know. But his emergence last season as a runner was out of nowhere.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I was coming to say this.

The Fields thing in the NFL is funny. He's getting really bad coaching, for one. He wasn't a running QB in college. He was a guy like KP, frankly, who could move but was a thrower. Fields wasn't particularly accurate but he wasn't a liability in the accuracy department either. It could be his ability to read a defense is what's holding him back in Chicago - I don't watch enough to know. But his emergence last season as a runner was out of nowhere.

Yea I think if you swapped KP in for Purdy, I don't think there's a dropoff in production. In fact, I think KP could take that constructed 49ers team to the SB.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Witherspoon being cut.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Witherspoon being cut.

Never healthy. He missed like 21 games in 2 seasons,

 

[JTG]

you really are a gatekeeping moron on this thread. what a waste of time

Another striking analysis by you...

Its ok to just say you didnt understand it the first time. (Which you clearly didnt)

Because the broad strokes concept is accurate whether you agree with the player comps or not. (Which i dont).

I understood completely. It's silly. That's my contention.

 

[JTG]

The Titans seem to be fine with cutting Willis. Their GM has to be the only person who didn't realize Willis needed 2-3 years of sitting and watching.

 

[cookthebooks]

Another striking analysis by you...



I understood completely. It's silly. That's my contention.

live from your glass house another another striking analysis by you

 

[Peat]

Surprised it took this long for Witherspoon to be cut tbh.

The Titans seem to be fine with cutting Willis. Their GM has to be the only person who didn't realize Willis needed 2-3 years of sitting and watching.

The GM who drafted him and the GM who's probably cutting him are different people.

Although I'd add I don't get how any QB is meant to ever get there if that's what they need. They have nowhere to meaningfully practice what they're watching. Seems to me that any guy who can't be trusted to go and play after a year of mechanics refinement, video study, and learning to be a pro just never will be ready.

I was coming to say this.

The Fields thing in the NFL is funny. He's getting really bad coaching, for one. He wasn't a running QB in college. He was a guy like KP, frankly, who could move but was a thrower. Fields wasn't particularly accurate but he wasn't a liability in the accuracy department either. It could be his ability to read a defense is what's holding him back in Chicago - I don't watch enough to know. But his emergence last season as a runner was out of nowhere.

Got to think any team desperate enough to trade a 2nd for Claypool feels really, really bad about who they're asking their QB to throw at.

Throw in an extremely porous OL and it makes sense to me. Ask the guy to throw and watch him die in the pocket, or ask him to run and at least let him get some yards and control when he gets hit.

Tbh I'm surprised Chicago didn't bring in more OL in the off-season. Guess we'll see how that plays out. They went real big on rebuilding their defence this season but that only helps Fields so much. Maybe they felt more than 2 new starters would hinder more than help.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Another striking analysis by you...



I understood completely. It's silly. That's my contention.

Aw f***, that wasnt meant for you, clicked on the wrong persons response.

 

[Andy99]

I don’t understand cutting Witherspoon this early…yeah, he was on the fence for a job but he’s been good at times…they couldnt see how he performed at training camp? Or was this generated by him and he said he wanted out?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I don’t understand cutting Witherspoon this early…yeah, he was on the fence for a job but he’s been good at times…they couldnt see how he performed at training camp? Or was this generated by him and he said he wanted out?

Below is the tweet.

But maybe they already feel that they can upgrade with other camp cuts and this makes things easier?

Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet

The #Steelers have informed veteran CB Ahkello Witherspoon that he’ll be released, source says. He started 7 games over the last two seasons.

10:25 AM · May 17, 2023 · 84.7K Views

 

[Peat]

I don’t understand cutting Witherspoon this early…yeah, he was on the fence for a job but he’s been good at times…they couldnt see how he performed at training camp? Or was this generated by him and he said he wanted out?

I guess by this point yeah. You remove the risk of him getting injured and not being able to cut him but that seems small.

My guess is we'll learn of Witherspoon asking for it or a new signing soon.

I guess the other possibility is that they've done their maths on restructuring and have only just finalized he has to go.

 

[Andy99]

I guess by this point yeah. You remove the risk of him getting injured and not being able to cut him but that seems small.

My guess is we'll learn of Witherspoon asking for it or a new signing soon.

I guess the other possibility is that they've done their maths on restructuring and have only just finalized he has to go.

Yeah, I think it must be cap related, like they want to sign someone else and they feel he’s most expendable but it seems like a risk

 

[Peat]

Yeah, I think it must be cap related, like they want to sign someone else and they feel he’s most expendable but it seems like a risk

I don't feel much risk in terms of not getting decent boundary CB play tbh. Peterson, Wallace and Porter feels deep enough. Maybe Witherspoon will explode again on his next team and they'll look stupid for that, but the Steelers themselves should be fine.

 

[xlm34]

Surprised it took this long for Witherspoon to be cut tbh.



The GM who drafted him and the GM who's probably cutting him are different people.

Although I'd add I don't get how any QB is meant to ever get there if that's what they need. They have nowhere to meaningfully practice what they're watching. Seems to me that any guy who can't be trusted to go and play after a year of mechanics refinement, video study, and learning to be a pro just never will be ready.



Got to think any team desperate enough to trade a 2nd for Claypool feels really, really bad about who they're asking their QB to throw at.

Throw in an extremely porous OL and it makes sense to me. Ask the guy to throw and watch him die in the pocket, or ask him to run and at least let him get some yards and control when he gets hit.

Tbh I'm surprised Chicago didn't bring in more OL in the off-season. Guess we'll see how that plays out. They went real big on rebuilding their defence this season but that only helps Fields so much. Maybe they felt more than 2 new starters would hinder more than help.

Yeah if Fields ends up not working out its going to be the perfect example of how not to develop a young QB:

—Stick him with a lame duck coach year 1
—Completely overhaul the coaching staff in year 2
—Terrible receiving group
—Terrible offensive line
—Literally the worst defense in the league

You just gotta feel bad for some of the young QBs that walk into those types of situations.

 

[Captain Hook]

Witherspoon being cut.

Not that surprising. There's cheaper options on the roster that are just as good. Witherspoon is such a frustrating player though. He has length, speed and great ball skills when he's on his game. He's just so inconsistent that you can't trust him to be out there. In the end he gave us about a good half a season year before last and he wound up costing the Steelers two 5th round picks. One was traded straight across for him and I believe we would have gotten a compensatory 5th for losing Matt Feiler in UFA but bringing in Witherspoon canceled that out.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I don’t understand cutting Witherspoon this early…yeah, he was on the fence for a job but he’s been good at times…they couldnt see how he performed at training camp? Or was this generated by him and he said he wanted out?

They always do vets who are 50 50 at best to make the roster a solid and cut them early on.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Jason Kelce believes Eagles lost 'one of the best guards in the NFL' in Isaac Seumalo: 'Steelers are getting a steal'