OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Super Bowl? Thats like a giant pot of chips or popcorn right?

[Buddy Bizarre]

I'm a huge Branch fan. I don't think he's an Ed Reed type. I think he's more between Tyrann Mathieu and Ryan Clark. Both Porter and Branch had warts, and the one thing I am very concerned about with Branch is his size coupled with his lack of speed.

I have zero concerns with Porter's size and speed. I think he could stand to get a bit more stronger because he's going to be playing some bully WRs. I think he could also use some work on his change of direction.

Maybe a poor example (Ed Reed), but my point is the same in that I feel like Branch is a dynamic player that offenses have to account for. I was a huge Branch proponent and I'm probably biased bc I originally thought there would be no way the Steelers would have a chance. They did and instead selected from a position that was fairly deep class (CB).

This isn't hate on a particular player. It's more disappointment related to the position. If JPJ played Safety I'd be more satisfied

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Unsure it that was directed at me, but I felt I was clear with my reasoning for the 2nd guessing of the pick. I thought S was a bigger need AND I felt the player available was better than the CB selected.

Again I think JPJ ends up a really nice player. But I worry that we passed on Ed Reed lite for Ike Taylor

If a guy is a great prospect without notable flaws, I doubt many would care about nepotism.

JPJ was not a playmaker in college and can look stiff at times, so it’s seems logical to worry Tomlin overlooked those things because he’s “Peasy’s Kid”.

If Tomlin didn’t have an atrocious record developing corners I’d be less worried as well.

On the flip side Tomlin knows if he’s a high character guy and how competitive he is/isn’t, etc etc.

Hoping he works out and if he doesn’t, I’m not the type to bag on it. Evaluating these prospects is hard and anyone who does this for a living or for fun, has been wrong numerous times, so whatever.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Unsure it that was directed at me, but I felt I was clear with my reasoning for the 2nd guessing of the pick. I thought S was a bigger need AND I felt the player available was better than the CB selected.

Again I think JPJ ends up a really nice player. But I worry that we passed on Ed Reed lite for Ike Taylor

Using your post that nepotism cuts two ways to suggest there's a third way that's pretty evident in this thread.

 

[cookthebooks]

(arent ed reed lite and ike taylor basically interchangeable?)

 

[JTG]

If a guy is a great prospect without notable flaws, I doubt many would care about nepotism.

JPJ was not a playmaker in college and can look stiff at times, so it’s seems logical to worry Tomlin overlooked those things because he’s “Peasy’s Kid”.

If Tomlin didn’t have an atrocious record developing corners I’d be less worried as well.

On the flip side Tomlin knows if he’s a high character guy and how competitive he is/isn’t, etc etc.

Hoping he works out and if he doesn’t, I’m not the type to bag on it. Evaluating these prospects is hard and anyone who does this for a living or for fun, has been wrong numerous times, so whatever.

To be fair, Porter didn't see a lot of action come his way. People point to his lack of ball production, but you can produce turnovers if they don't throw your way.

He's going to get picked on now though, so we are going to see if those ball concerns are real.

(arent ed reed lite and ike taylor basically interchangeable?)

One is a safety and one is a corner. They aren't the same.

 

[cookthebooks]

To be fair, Porter didn't see a lot of action come his way. People point to his lack of ball production, but you can produce turnovers if they don't throw your way.

He's going to get picked on now though, so we are going to see if those ball concerns are real.


One is a safety and one is a corner. They aren't the same.

i mean ed reed lite is a very good safety and ike taylor was a very good cornerback

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

i mean ed reed lite is a very good safety and ike taylor was a very good cornerback

1 was a generational player. The other was a borderline Pro Bowler

That's like saying Jake G and Sid Crosby are both very good players. It's true, but there's a significant chasm between their abilities.

 

[xlm34]

To be fair, Porter didn't see a lot of action come his way. People point to his lack of ball production, but you can produce turnovers if they don't throw your way.

He's going to get picked on now though, so we are going to see if those ball concerns are real.


One is a safety and one is a corner. They aren't the same.

Yeah I’m not super concerned about the lack of INTs in college. He had 11 pass breakups on only 30 targets last year so he’s definitely capable of locating and making a play on the ball. It’s just a matter of converting some of those into interceptions. It’s something that Teryl Austin and Grady Brown are going to work on with him since that’s an area that they place a big emphasis on.

And at the end of the day, I don’t even care if he’s a ball hawk type of corner if he’s capable of shutting down some of these receivers. Artie Burns had pretty big interception numbers in college but it turned out that he couldn’t actually cover anyone.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I'd be fully in support of trading Trubisky and making Rudolph the backup, but I don't think the Steelers want to trade Trusbisky.

I don't think the team intends on trading MT. They want to see him playing out his contract (which is up after this season). He's paid commensurate with his anticipated playing time.

I have no issues with MR coming back. He's been a good soldier and we arguably have the best QB2 and QB3 combo in the league.

If I were the Steelers I would give Mason a two year deal. If Mitch leaves after the season, you still have an experienced backup.

And if you have Mason locked up as the potential backup QB for 2024, and injuries happen in 2023 elsewhere around the NFL and teams come sniffing around at Trubisky? Sure, if the offer is right the Steelers can trade him and get a draft pick.

 

[cookthebooks]

1 was a generational player. The other was a borderline Pro Bowler

That's like saying Jake G and Sid Crosby are both very good players. It's true, but there's a significant chasm between their abilities.

ed taylor lite isnt a generational player, ed taylor heavy is. ike taylor wasnt a generational player because he didnt have ed taylors playmaking/ballhawking. ed taylor lite wouldnt have those characteristics either. you arent convincing me that ed taylor lite isnt the safety equivalent of ike taylor in any way.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

To be fair, Porter didn't see a lot of action come his way. People point to his lack of ball production, but you can produce turnovers if they don't throw your way.

He's going to get picked on now though, so we are going to see if those ball concerns are real.


One is a safety and one is a corner. They aren't the same.

When I say playmaking, I mean Int, FR, FF and sacks.

JPJ had a grand total of three in his college career. 1 pick, 1 sack, 1 FR, 0 FF.

Maybe he becomes a playmaker in the NFL, but I don’t think anyone can look at those numbers in an unbiased way and not be concerned.

 

[JTG]

ed taylor lite isnt a generational player, ed taylor heavy is. ike taylor wasnt a generational player because he didnt have ed taylors playmaking/ballhawking. ed taylor lite wouldnt have those characteristics either. you arent convincing me that ed taylor lite isnt the safety equivalent of ike taylor in any way.

Considering you are calling him Ed Taylor kind of gives me the level of knowledge you have about this haha.

How Reed played safety and Taylor played corner are even different. It's not close,man.

 

[Pengwins]

Trubisky has negative value. We would have to retain salary to trade him but I am all for that if it means adding another player

I wonder if they will take a look at OLB Leonard Floyd

 

[cookthebooks]

Considering you are calling him Ed Taylor kind of gives me the level of knowledge you have about this haha.

How Reed played safety and Taylor played corner are even different. It's not close,man.

pretty easy snafu, but yeah that level of engagement shows how strong your argument is

 

[Captain Hook]

Yeah, I'm not really seeing the comparison between Reed and Ike. What similarities do you see there?

I think of Ike, and he had length, speed, and cover skills. Reed had elite instincts and ball skills that made him arguably the best ballhawk of all time.

Reed and Troy were compared a lot. They played different positions and entirely different styles. Reed was the free safety, center fielder type, and Troy was that box safety, crashing down and blowing up runs, diving over the line of scrimmage to get people in the backfield, etc. Both could wreck your game plan, but they went about it in different ways. I could understand why those two were compared, though. Despite their differences, they shared the same qualities of having an elite level of football IQ and instincts.

 

[cookthebooks]

i am saying putting an ed reed lite future grade on a safety is assigning him the same positional value as an ike taylor future grade on a corner. the added characteristics that made ed reed elite for his position while ike taylor was merely very good at his are lost when you downgrade. they obviously play different positions, but so do a lot of players in the draft and at the end of the day you have to figure out how to compare them somehow

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Considering you are calling him Ed Taylor kind of gives me the level of knowledge you have about this haha.

How Reed played safety and Taylor played corner are even different. It's not close,man.

Your not actually listening to his argument.

Even if Branch is ed reed lite. That means hes (by definition) worse. So you take a elite safety and make him a very good safety.

Ike Taylor was a very good corner.

If JPJ is Ike Taylor you are now comparing a very good corner to a very good safety. And CB has more positional value.

Now there is a lot, A LOT, of grey area in analysis like player x lite, great or very good. But if we are doing broad strokes a step down from a great safety is comparable to a very good corner.

 

[cookthebooks]

Your not actually listening to his argument.

Even if Branch is ed reed lite. That means hes (by definition) worse. So you take a elite safety and make him a very good safety.

Ike Taylor was a very good corner.

If JPJ is Ike Taylor you are now comparing a very good corner to a very good safety. And CB has more positional value.

Now there is a lot, A LOT, of grey area in analysis like player x lite, great or very good. But if we are doing broad strokes a step down from a great safety is comparable to a very good corner.

right! you are basically saying you value a good safety over a good corner and im not sure thats right, but it might be!

 

[Jaded-Fan]

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I'd take KP over Fields any day. Fields is gonna end up like RGIII

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'd take KP over Fields any day. Fields is gonna end up like RGIII

Pretty much what I think. He has 5 wins in 25 starts.

I get his team isn’t that great, but eventually good QBs have to produce wins.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Pretty much what I think. He has 5 wins in 25 starts.

I get his team isn’t that great, but eventually good QBs have to produce wins.

Eh I can't measure young* QB's by wins. They typically are only seeing the field bc their team sucks and to be fair to Fields, that's the hand he's been dealt with.

But I don't see anything about his arm or decision making to make me believe he's on the cusp of anything except for a season ending injury. Yea he's a great runner but we've seen this fish before and how that translates into being a good QB or leading your team to any playoff wins.

_____________________
*My original reply said "rookie QB". "Young QB" is the more apt description for Fields

 

[xlm34]

I'd take KP over Fields any day. Fields is gonna end up like RGIII

I’m curious to see what he’s going to be like with a decent offense surrounding him. I think he had a stretch where N’Keal Harry was the number one receiver. And their OL was 2021 Steelers bad

 

[wheelz87]

Fields is gonna get killed if he keeps running the amount he does

 

[Pengwins]

I'd take KP over Fields any day. Fields is gonna end up like RGIII

yup. and id take KP over Purdy as well