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OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Super Bowl? Thats like a giant pot of chips or popcorn right?

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Who wins?

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Here's where Pro Football Focus had each #Steelers draftee on their final draft big board:

Broderick Jones - 20th
Joey Porter Jr. - 21st
Keeanu Benton - 58th
Darnell Washington - 37th 👀
Nick Herbig - 64th 👀
Cory Trice - 77th 👀
Spencer Anderson - 316th

Not a Big Fan of PFF but there it is
 
pistolpete11 said:
In terms of W/L, I totally agree. I'm just talking about Harris and how the offense looked, though. Some of Harris' best games in terms of Y/A came in the second half of the season against some of the best defenses in terms of Y/A (BAL, CIN, ATL was middle of the pack....granted he also got stuffed up pretty good in the other game against the Ravens after the bye). He just looked different and I think that could continue given the upgrades to the OL and Washington.
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Here's my take on Harris/the running game:

- The OL's issues weren't in running, it was pass pro. So I'm cautiously optimistic about our FA acquisitions along the interior. Their calling cards were run blocking.
- Harris had an ok season, but I've been railing about his vision issues for the past 2 offseasons

As someone else just said, they need some sort of scheme or players to back off the defenses. We see all 11 defenders within 6-8 yards of the LOS in many situations. The entire league knows we don't throw past the sticks.

In short, the running game is the least of my worries. Harris could be out the entire year with injury and we wouldn't suffer any dropoff.
 
Buddy Bizarre said:
We haven't seen a "wide open offense" in quite some time. Hell even in 2016 we still suffered through the odd fascination of a methodical march down the field stuff. While the individual players themselves may have shook off defenders for long gains, I didn't see anything that replicated the "bombs away" approach they could have enacted with the personnel on hand.

MT's philosophy hasn't deviated from his 2008 squad despite the difference in personnel. He believes in defensive oriented football and he thinks that the best way to protect the defense is to give them rest. Well my philosophy (and most of the NFL) believes that in this day and age, the best thing you can give your defense is points because offenses can score quickly in the modern NFL.
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I'm kinda of in between. As the league pivots to finesse chuck n duck, I firmly believe STEELERS football can win. I know a lot of experts say no, you can't do that today... I disagree. If the Niners have a QB last year, I think they win the SB. IF the Ravens have a Qb last year, they are matchup nightmare for the Chiefs.

I simply want the Steelers to add the big play back to the offense and strive to get early leads. I loved the way they ran the ball the last half of the season and that should be improved with the additions they've made.
 
I really like what they did in the UFDA, they all have interesting characteristics. But this dude is one to watch..........relentless pursuit, never gives up on a play.

 
Buddy Bizarre said:
We haven't seen a "wide open offense" in quite some time. Hell even in 2016 we still suffered through the odd fascination of a methodical march down the field stuff. While the individual players themselves may have shook off defenders for long gains, I didn't see anything that replicated the "bombs away" approach they could have enacted with the personnel on hand.

MT's philosophy hasn't deviated from his 2008 squad despite the difference in personnel. He believes in defensive oriented football and he thinks that the best way to protect the defense is to give them rest. Well my philosophy (and most of the NFL) believes that in this day and age, the best thing you can give your defense is points because offenses can score quickly in the modern NFL.
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Roth had over 5k passing yards in 2018, and put the ball in the air a ridiculous 675 times. Then he hurt his arm the next season and couldn't push it down field like he used to.

Roth avg around 4k yards a season under Tomlin, so they weren't exactly playing 90's Cowher ball. For reference Neil'OD had their high watermark of 3200 yards during the 90s. When Cowher really "opened it up" in the early 2000s, Maddox went crazy and threw for 3400 once.

AB put up all time franchise marks and became one of the best receivers of his era under Tomlin as well.

So I wouldn't say Tomlin is scared to have his QB throw the ball around the yard (assuming he trusts him, which was basically almost always Roth).

Part of the reason I was always pissed at Tomlin is he had one of the best offenses in the league for a number of years and still found ways to f*** it up come playoff time.
 
Mr Jiggyfly said:
I'm obviously not a big Tomlin fan, given his epic failures the last decade or so.

But I try my best to be fair to him as well.

I don't believe Tomlin is stupid or that he's a frothing, braindead imbecile.

He's doing many things I clamored for... taking KP over Willis, understanding KP's the future and sticking by him when he had a real rough patch, and now he's taken a LT like I begged for.

So it would be disingenuous of me to rail on Tomlin and pretend he doesn't do anything right.

Despite my misgivings about his coaching prowess, I feel pretty confident he understands that at some point KP will need to graduate from caretaker to lead dog.
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My biggest fear is that the biggest decision maker in the building is Rooney and that he's got past glories of how Steeler football works in his head and will push Khan and Tomlin towards proceeding in an antiquated way.

I'm not sure that's very rational.

I think you're right that Tomlin understands the need for that arc. I even think he's done it pretty well so far. I dunno how he and Canada are going to manage the next steps. My sensible fear is over that. I, along with probably everyone else in this thread, would be a lot more comfortable about that for no Canada.
 
Mr Jiggyfly said:
I'm obviously not a big Tomlin fan, given his epic failures the last decade or so.

But I try my best to be fair to him as well.

I don't believe Tomlin is stupid or that he's a frothing, braindead imbecile.

He's doing many things I clamored for... taking KP over Willis, understanding KP's the future and sticking by him when he had a real rough patch, and now he's taken a LT like I begged for.

So it would be disingenuous of me to rail on Tomlin and pretend he doesn't do anything right.

Despite my misgivings about his coaching prowess, I feel pretty confident he understands that at some point KP will need to graduate from caretaker to lead dog.
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I think this is the second stage of Tomlin's career, and it will be interesting to see what he does with it. He came into a team as a head coach where he wasn't a whole lot older than the guys here, and many of the guys in the room had just won a Super Bowl together. It was almost as if Ben was a peer to Tomlin and not Ben's boss. AB eluded to this also.

He's now an elder. This is a young team. These guys look up to him as a father figure, in some cases. I think this is the type of team Tomlin will do best with. It falls right into his wheelhouse, and I don't doubt he can lead men. My issue was always that it never seemed he held the highly paid players responsible for their actions.

Josey Wales said:
Here's where Pro Football Focus had each #Steelers draftee on their final draft big board:

Broderick Jones - 20th
Joey Porter Jr. - 21st
Keeanu Benton - 58th
Darnell Washington - 37th 👀
Nick Herbig - 64th 👀
Cory Trice - 77th 👀
Spencer Anderson - 316th

Not a Big Fan of PFF but there it is
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Yeah, this was a draft for the ages. Hopefully these guys pan out. If Trice and Porter can both pan out that's Legion of Boom type DBs. Two monsters who play physical on the corners.
 
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Coastal Kev said:
I'm kinda of in between. As the league pivots to finesse chuck n duck, I firmly believe STEELERS football can win. I know a lot of experts say no, you can't do that today... I disagree. If the Niners have QB last year, I think they win the SB. IF the Ravens have a Qb last year, they are matchup nightmare for the Chiefs.

I simply want the Steelers to add the big play back to the offense and strive to get early leads. I loved the way they ran the ball the last half of the season and that should be improved with the additions they've made.
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I'm not saying you're incorrect. But much like the Pens, I feel there has a been a major disconnect in terms of how we play and the personnel we acquire via draft/FA.

They drafted Green and he didn't fit at all in terms of what they wanted to do. Tomlin wants to build a team that is good at running the ball and stopping the run. Well up until last year they couldn't do either.

There seems to be some cohesion with adding pieces that fit MT's philosophy, so that gives me more hope than what had been going on.
 
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Mr Jiggyfly said:
Roth had over 5k passing yards in 2018, and put the ball in the air a ridiculous 675 times. Then he hurt his arm the next season and couldn't push it down field like he used to.

Roth avg around 4k yards a season under Tomlin, so they weren't exactly playing 90's Cowher ball. For reference Neil'OD had their high watermark of 3200 yards during the 90s. When Cowher really "opened it up" in the early 2000s, Maddox went crazy and threw for 3400 once.

AB put up all time franchise marks and became one of the best receivers of his era under Tomlin as well.

So I wouldn't say Tomlin is scared to have his QB throw the ball around the yard (assuming he trusts him, which was basically almost always Roth).

Part of the reason I was always pissed at Tomlin is he had one of the best offenses in the league for a number of years and still found ways to f*** it up come playoff time.
Click to expand...

There is context to those numbers. Steelers during that timeframe really used the 0 step hitches as an extension of the running game. So there was a portion of those passes that were really "long handoffs", those inflated Ben's attempts and yardage totals. Remember he still had AB who turned those hitches into 10 yard gains. Steelers also used the middle of the field more...again AB was headed towards being a generational WR. They threw slants and in routes to him...witness the pass where Burfict knocked him out. AB's YAC really pumped those numbers up. I'd love to see a "yards in air traveled" stat for Ben since 2010

Related to your last paragraph that was my main complaint: he had 1 of the best offenses in the league and 1 of the worst defenses once Shazier went down. His philosophy was to then shorten the game to help his defense rest. My counter is and always is "The best thing to help your defense out? Score points"
 
Peat said:
The question there is whether this serves Pickett's overall development. If we want effective explosive plays, he's going to need reps. Too much possession football and I don't know if he gets those reps.

I want to see him given his head a little more next season. Last year's possession strategy was great for building confidence and aiming for valuable playoff experience. But I want them to take that confidence and build something a bit more all court.
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Yeah it’s gonna need to be a balancing act between development and trying to win. A playoff appearance and at the very least a competitive playoff game are massively important for this team this year I think.

I think ideally, you open up the offense a bit and go for some more chunk plays, but keep Pickett in that 25 - 30 pass attempt range. With the conference the way it is, you’re inevitably going to get into a shootout at some point so he’ll get experience. I don’t think you go into the game with that intention though.

JTG said:
I think this is the second stage of Tomlin's career, and it will be interesting to see what he does with it. He came into a team as a head coach where he wasn't a whole lot older than the guys here, and many of the guys in the room had just won a Super Bowl together. It was almost as if Ben was a peer to Tomlin and not Ben's boss. AB eluded to this also.

He's now an elder. This is a young team. These guys look up to him as a father figure, in some cases. I think this is the type of team Tomlin will do best with. It falls right into his wheelhouse, and I don't doubt he can lead men. My issue was always that it never seemed he held the highly paid players responsible for their actions.



Yeah, this was a draft for the ages. Hopefully these guys pan out. If Trice and Porter can both pan out that's Legion of Boom type DBs. Two monsters who play physical on the corners.
Click to expand...

Yeah I probably have a higher opinion of Tomlin than most on here, but this is where he’ll really show what he is. I never really bought the Dan Bylsma comparisons for him because I was always confident that if he went to a different team he would be successful. Well he’s been around so long that this is pretty much a completely different team. So it’s gonna be interesting for me to see what happens.
 
Peat said:
My biggest fear is that the biggest decision maker in the building is Rooney and that he's got past glories of how Steeler football works in his head and will push Khan and Tomlin towards proceeding in an antiquated way.

I'm not sure that's very rational.

I think you're right that Tomlin understands the need for that arc. I even think he's done it pretty well so far. I dunno how he and Canada are going to manage the next steps. My sensible fear is over that. I, along with probably everyone else in this thread, would be a lot more comfortable about that for no Canada.
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I think Tomlin mostly runs the ship. especially when you have Rooney telling us how lucky he is to have Tomlin want to work for him and declares he has a lifetime job.

If Canada fails, that is on Tomlin
Buddy Bizarre said:
There is context to those numbers. Steelers during that timeframe really used the 0 step hitches as an extension of the running game. So there was a portion of those passes that were really "long handoffs", those inflated Ben's attempts and yardage totals. Remember he still had AB who turned those hitches into 10 yard gains. Steelers also used the middle of the field more...again AB was headed towards being a generational WR. They threw slants and in routes to him...witness the pass where Burfict knocked him out. AB's YAC really pumped those numbers up. I'd love to see a "yards in air traveled" stat for Ben since 2010

Related to your last paragraph that was my main complaint: he had 1 of the best offenses in the league and 1 of the worst defenses once Shazier went down. His philosophy was to then shorten the game to help his defense rest. My counter is and always is "The best thing to help your defense out? Score points"
Click to expand...

I never felt like he was playing turtle ball like Cowher always did.

I can’t recall any playoff loses or seasons in general where I felt Tomlin was some ball control obsessed savant of “Marty Ball” like Cowher.

That shit always annoyed the living f*** out of me, so if Tomlin was doing that, I’d have been ultra pissed about it.

Tomlin’s downfall the last oh… dozen years…has been piss poor game planning/playcalling/having his team ready in the playoffs.

Not being too conservative. There were plenty of times I thought he should be running more and passing less.
 
Peat said:
My biggest fear is that the biggest decision maker in the building is Rooney and that he's got past glories of how Steeler football works in his head and will push Khan and Tomlin towards proceeding in an antiquated way.

I'm not sure that's very rational.

I think you're right that Tomlin understands the need for that arc. I even think he's done it pretty well so far. I dunno how he and Canada are going to manage the next steps. My sensible fear is over that. I, along with probably everyone else in this thread, would be a lot more comfortable about that for no Canada.
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Well, there isnt anything rational about keeping a Coach for 20+ years. Its the extreme opposite of firing the coach every year. Both equally Unhealthy.

Change after at least 5-10 years is always good. Keeps things fresh and a new focus.
 
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Andy99 said:
That doesn’t mean he can get away with that in the NFL against DEs who are just as if not more athletic than him
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He will be fine with some coaching. But he does have some things to work on.
 
JTG said:
He will be fine with some coaching. But he does have some things to work on.
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im sure he will…but the technique has to be become ingrained so he doesn’t think about it and that will take some time, so I’d put my money on Moore starting the season
 
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JTG said:
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Same website had him as the 2nd ranked player in the entire draft.

I think it’s very possible he’s borderline bad or even worse next year, especially in pass pro. Andrew Thomas on NYG is another Bulldog with great traits when he came out, struggled really bad in year one and then did a 180 in year 2.

Long term Jones seems like the answer however. Absolute worst it appears he’ll be a nasty run blocker at guard.
 
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I feel like there's a fair bit of disagreement as to how ready Jones is. I've seen plenty of profiles talking about him as a year one starter. I guess none of them said he was a good one.

In any case, I dunno that I'd be making calls on who's starting at this point. Teams generally don't move up to 14 to select LTs if they don't see a starter. But the Steelers are generally conservative and have options. It wouldn't surprise me a jot if none of the draft picks are starting on day 1. It wouldn't surprise me if there was 3 starters. Training camp might actually matter in terms of who's starting next season.
 
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