OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Sneaking up onto training camp

[Ryder71]

Watch him re-sign in SF after all of this. Or the Browns swoop in and land him.

Then why go through all this? The trade package from the Steelers never changed according to most reports. Pretty sure the niners thought eventually the Steelers would up their price, we never did. Looking at our WR core, maybe we should have budged a little.

Regardless, this whole dilemma could have been avoided if we had an apt plan B.

 

[Andy99]

I think they're going to keep trying because it's too late to change course satisfactorily, but that article does touch on why I imagine they're reluctant with the Nico Collins comparison. I think push comes to shove, they don't think he's as good as his numbers say he is, and that their scheme makes him better than he is. I wish the article had dipped more into how the rest of the 49ers offence makes things easier on Aiyuk and why Aiyuk has only really taken off with Purdy there.

But it also shows why Aiyuk opens things up for other players and probably makes Purdy better…he’s a better bet to pay than Samuel…if I’m the Niners, I’m signing him and trying to trade Samuel either this year or next…that makes better sense, as the author suggests

 

[Peat]

But it also shows why Aiyuk opens things up for other players and probably makes Purdy better…he’s a better bet to pay than Samuel…if I’m the Niners, I’m signing him and trying to trade Samuel either this year or next…that makes better sense, as the author suggests

In the situation? Yeah. They do need his skillset more than they need Samuel's.

Ideally though, the Niners don't want to be married to either and are looking for young talent to take their place rather than keep giving big contracts to guys whose numbers are inflated by the 49ers scheme. That's why they took two WRs this year and extended Jennings. Ideally the Niners either get a short term contract with Aiyuk, or a long term contract that reflects he's not Batman there.

I suspect that won't happen. I suspect that Aiyuk will force them to sign him for more money than they won't. But the extent to which that isn't ideal is part of what's making this take so long.

 

[Andy99]

In the situation? Yeah. They do need his skillset more than they need Samuel's.

Ideally though, the Niners don't want to be married to either and are looking for young talent to take their place. That's why they took two WRs this year and extended Jennings. Ideally the Niners either get a short term contract with Aiyuk, or a long term contract that reflects he's not Batman there.

I suspect that won't happen. I suspect that Aiyuk will force them to sign him for more money than they won't. But the extent to which that isn't ideal is part of what's making this take so long.

Yeah, I’m that’s why they’ve flirted with trading him…paying him something acceptable to him is difficult given other contracts they have and players they still have to pay, like Purdy…but ultimately they never pulled the trigger on a trade, so they really don’t want to trade him…

 

[Peat]

Highsmith and Benton both training today from the sounds of it. That's good.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

He should have held onto DJ until he had an apt replacement. That was Khans only mistake this offseason and it's been going on for 6 months now. Still not fixed.

You were going to have a hole somewhere on this roster. There just weren't enough draft picks/available FA's to fill everything. This is a salary cap league.

If they didn't trade DJ, they would have a gaping hole at CB2 right now and you're in a similar position there that we currently are with WR : a true #1 with a bunch of mystery boxes behind him

 

[Ryder71]

Yeah, I’m that’s why they’ve flirted with trading him…paying him something acceptable to him is difficult given other contracts they have and players they still have to pay, like Purdy…but ultimately they never pulled the trigger on a trade, so they really don’t want to trade him…

There's not one person here who believes they wanted to trade him. So what?

They have a lot of good players that wanna get paid, that's always been the issue.

You were going to have a hole somewhere on this roster. There just weren't enough draft picks/available FA's to fill everything. This is a salary cap league.

If they didn't trade DJ, they would have a gaping hole at CB2 right now and you're in a similar position there that we currently are with WR : a true #1 with a bunch of mystery boxes behind him

Not really, they could have just kept Johnson, they had the cap space to do it. They didn't have to lose him.

I'm not sold on Jackson TBH. Seems like a downgrade.

And if so, they could have used that 3rd rounder on a CB and had two WR's in the fold. It wasn't handled well, period!

 

[Andy99]

Mike Florio is basically saying that the Niners have to convince owner Jed York that they need to pay Aiyuk and the developments have likely done that…they were planning to trade him where they could get a receiver back, like Browns and Nze, but he didn’t want to go there…they explored using assets from the Steelers to trade for a WR but nothing really materialized and now they’re at the point where they need to convince the owner that the only viable option is to sign him..

Where Aiyuk reportedly stands with Steelers, 49ers

Mike Florio and Chris Simms sift through reports about the Steelers having a deal in place for Brandon Aiyuk, as well as the 49ers reportedly not being that far apart on a long-term deal for the WR.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Ryder71]

I can't believe the sham that these clowns are perpetrating here. lol

As if they didn't have these talks with the owner months ago.

Hope Frisco falls in the ocean!

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Not really, they could have just kept Johnson, they had the cap space to do it. They didn't have to lose him.

I'm not sold on Jackson TBH. Seems like a downgrade.

And if so, they could have used that 3rd rounder on a CB and had two WR's in the fold. It wasn't handled well, period!

DJ was becoming a cancer in the lockerroom.

And if you take that CB in R3, you're relying on a rookie DB to be CB2. That seems like just as a significant gamble than what they did: robbing Peter (the WR room) to pay Paul (the CB room).
Furthermore, the Steelers knew what Art Smith came here to do and that means Wr2 doesn't get a ton of touches and they could skimp on that position this year.

There is and was no other way to slice this pie so you have reliable players at every position. It just wasn't going to happen this offseason. Next offseason we'll be in a better position bc I believe in Khan.

 

[cookthebooks]

the idea the owner is the person to convince and its not the GM that structures how resources will be allocated in order to not blow up the cap down the road seems well and truly asinine. either they have a plan in place that the GM executes or they are an utter joke of a franchise.

 

[MrBrightside]

I liked it much better when Ryder was more focused on relentless hyperbolic shitting on the Penguins. Bringing that shit to this thread is an unfortunate development.

 

[xlm34]

the idea the owner is the person to convince and its not the GM that structures how resources will be allocated in order to not blow up the cap down the road seems well and truly asinine. either they have a plan in place that the GM executes or they are an utter joke of a franchise.

They’ve had drama with pretty much every major contract negotiation recently so they either prefer to structure deals in a way that players don’t like or there’s a disconnect somewhere.

 

[Ryder71]

I liked it much better when Ryder was more focused on relentless hyperbolic shitting on the Penguins. Bringing that shit to this thread is an unfortunate development.

I liked it much better when you didn't post much at all. And that's not hyperbole.

DJ was becoming a cancer in the lockerroom.

And if you take that CB in R3, you're relying on a rookie DB to be CB2. That seems like just as a significant gamble than what they did: robbing Peter (the WR room) to pay Paul (the CB room).
Furthermore, the Steelers knew what Art Smith came here to do and that means Wr2 doesn't get a ton of touches and they could skimp on that position this year.

There is and was no other way to slice this pie so you have reliable players at every position. It just wasn't going to happen this offseason. Next offseason we'll be in a better position bc I believe in Khan.

I believe in Khan as well. I just don't think trading DJ for Pennies on the dollar was a wise decision. That was a catalyst for this needless soap opera we've been mired in now for six months!

the idea the owner is the person to convince and its not the GM that structures how resources will be allocated in order to not blow up the cap down the road seems well and truly asinine. either they have a plan in place that the GM executes or they are an utter joke of a franchise.

Yep, it's BS!

 

[Peat]

the idea the owner is the person to convince and its not the GM that structures how resources will be allocated in order to not blow up the cap down the road seems well and truly asinine. either they have a plan in place that the GM executes or they are an utter joke of a franchise.

The owner is probably putting 35m of his money into escrow for this. Yeah, he's going to need convincing. My guess is every single owner in the NFL is the final decision maker on guaranteed money and often a lot more.

edit: They say it in the video even. "And normally you have to get the owner to sign off on it". 3:40 or so.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

The owner is probably putting 35m of his money into escrow for this. Yeah, he's going to need convincing. My guess is every single owner in the NFL is the final decision maker on guaranteed money and often a lot more.

Especially when they have to put more money in escrow next week for Williams and then tie up more next summer for more players

 

[JTG]

SF owner sees the checks coming that he's going to HAVE to write and he's trying to prolong the need to do it. Ownership tasks management to solve problems like this all of the time. "We are not spending the money on XYZ project...you have to get creative." They are probably trying to do that, which is why it's taking so long. They also have been gathering info on what other teams are negotiating with Aiyuk, I'm sure. It has gone on too long, but I don't necessarily think the player and the staff wants to part ways, but they are being forced to come to a resolution if both parties want to stay together.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I think Aiyuk and the 9ers get a deal done. I don't think they will need to trade him. I don't think he's coming to the Steelers. No, I don't have any actual information to base those thoughts on beyond what anyone else has access to.

If it breaks down with the 9ers and he gets traded to Pittsburgh, I will count myself pleasantly surprised. And I won't really be that disappointed if it doesn't happen. But in any case I'm not going to wonder/worry about/anticipate it any more.

 

[Peat]

They’ve had drama with pretty much every major contract negotiation recently so they either prefer to structure deals in a way that players don’t like or there’s a disconnect somewhere.

They do seem to imply in that video that Shanahan and Lynch are often having to manage up on York and show him "hey, we really did try, but either you pay this money or we don't have this player" which fits the constant drama. Pinch of salt because they've got a self-professed buddy of Shanahan there and it's great cover to stick out into the media but everything fits. I saw a 49ers beat reporter on The Athletic question York's interest in sticking his hand in his pocket the other day too.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I believe in Khan as well. I just don't think trading DJ for Pennies on the dollar was a wise decision. That was a catalyst for this needless soap opera we've been mired in now for six months!

"Pennies on the dollar" is a value statement, not an absolute dollar comparison.

Is DJ better than Jackson? Absolutely, a 1a or 1b WR holds more value than a CB2.

But Jackson was more valuable to the Steelers vs DJ for a couple of reasons:

1. He comes to a major position of need (CB)
2. As mentioned before, whoever the Wr2 is in Art Smith's offense isn't going to get many touches and their production/value will drop
3. DJ was becoming a problem in the lockerroom

So for contextual reasons, I'd say the Steelers got good value from this trade.

 

[Ryder71]

"Pennies on the dollar" is a value statement, not an absolute dollar comparison.

Is DJ better than Jackson? Absolutely, a 1a or 1b WR holds more value than a CB2.

But Jackson was more valuable to the Steelers vs DJ for a couple of reasons:

1. He comes to a major position of need (CB)
2. As mentioned before, whoever the Wr2 is in Art Smith's offense isn't going to get many touches and their production/value will drop
3. DJ was becoming a problem in the lockerroom

So for contextual reasons, I'd say the Steelers got good value from this trade.

Fair point, but I do disagree with the disparity in talent at their respective positions. We agree on Johnsons value, however I'm not so sure that DJ is even a CB2 caliber player. Or at a minimum a good one. We'll find out.

 

[Peat]

Nate Herbig left practice early with an arm injury.

 

[wheelz87]

I think Aiyuk and the 9ers get a deal done. I don't think they will need to trade him. I don't think he's coming to the Steelers. No, I don't have any actual information to base those thoughts on beyond what anyone else has access to.

If it breaks down with the 9ers and he gets traded to Pittsburgh, I will count myself pleasantly surprised. And I won't really be that disappointed if it doesn't happen. But in any case I'm not going to wonder/worry about/anticipate it any more.

Seems the same to me at this point.. except I’m at the point where I will be disappointed. Everything points to the Steelers simply being the backup plan if contract talks completely fall apart with San Fran/Aiyuk. Like yea, give us a call if you can’t get it done. If Khan truly wanted this done he would up the ante a bit and pay the needed price. (which unless it happens we’ll never know what that is.. but if it’s just picks going the other way and SF really wants a linemen/receiver? It’s a no brainer to add Austin or whoever it may be to add a guy like Aiyuk).

 

[cookthebooks]

The owner is probably putting 35m of his money into escrow for this. Yeah, he's going to need convincing. My guess is every single owner in the NFL is the final decision maker on guaranteed money and often a lot more.

i sincerely doubt there is that limited separation from the yorks personal finances and 49ers enterprises since what you are describing is in effect a capital injection.

 

[Peat]

Seems the same to me at this point.. except I’m at the point where I will be disappointed. Everything points to the Steelers simply being the backup plan if contract talks completely fall apart with San Fran/Aiyuk. Like yea, give us a call if you can’t get it done. If Khan truly wanted this done he would up the ante a bit and pay the needed price. (which unless it happens we’ll never know what that is.. but if it’s just picks going the other way and SF really wants a linemen/receiver? It’s a no brainer to add Austin or whoever it may be to add a guy like Aiyuk).

Khan has got an agreement though - it's just on the provisio that Aiyuk won't sign with the 49ers. If Aiyuk is willing to sign a deal and rescind the trade request with the 49ers, then I imagine the necessary price is astronomical. Like what price would make you happy if the Steelers traded Fitzpatrick? That's getting you into the right ballpark. Not a lot he can do about that. Slap more money on his contract offer to Aiyuk?

Maybe if Khan had been more aggressive earlier in the process the 49ers would have taken it and not bothered making a new improved offer to Aiyuk... but maybe not.

i sincerely doubt there is that limited separation from the yorks personal finances and 49ers enterprises since what you are describing is in effect a capital injection.

And in most businesses management needs sign-off from owners before they go around injecting 35m worth of capital.

I would also add that if York only needs sign off on guaranteed money, he's more hands off than a decent amount of NFL owners, including Rooney.