OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Ploff wins?!? Fire Tomlin

[ZorkEnchanter]

This could very well be just Watt covering for the coaching staff but the be more open to moving around thing caught my eye.

He could have been stubborn about rushing from just one spot.

Someone should ask him what Tomlin and coaches will do to help. Absolutely nothing... like when Najee Harris asked to sit down and talk about OL/Running Lanes and preparation to do better.

Tomlin is like a bad tenured teacher... he's just doing just enough to not get fired.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Tomlin would have been fired by every other org. in the NFL 3-4 years ago, at minimum.

There are 2 reasons why he's employed here. Rooney is a coward and Tomlin is.....not allowed to say it in today's world.

It really is that simple. Any other argument is a waste of time and energy.

 

[MissADD]

Rumor around town is that he’s coming back for his senior yr

That's gonna be full RB room then.

 

[xlm34]

I am not yet to be trusted on NFL stats There's so f***ing many of them and sometimes I'm not entirely sure what the f*** they're showing.

But in these case I used Intended Air Yards per Attempt on Pro Football Reference. I feel like that's a reasonably good barometer to how aggressive teams are being with their passing game and how often they're going deep

2023 - Ridder is 9th
2022 - Mariota is 1st
2021 - Ryan is 28th
2020 - Tannehill is 12th
2019 - Tannehill is 3rd

2024 - Wilson - 18th, Fields 21st

As we can see, Smith is nearly always towards the top of the league. The one exception prior to this year was Matt Ryan and I suspect he was cooked and unable to do it. The idea that this limitation applies to Wilson or Fields is risible. Ergo, you have to ask why is Smith not doing what he likes to do.

It is possible this stat represents the team is still going deep as often as a Smith team likes to, but is instead never throwing intermediate passes. That wouldn't surprise me. I believe the data is out there for QBs targeting said areas, maybe even not behind a paywall but I am *checks list of excuses* ah yes, too lazy to go look.

In any case, the exact cause for this statistical difference is, I think, mildly besides the point. Whether it's less deep throws or less intermediate throws, the depth of target is indicating Smith had to pull back his horns from where he's been at previous years.

But when we’re talking about a QB in Wilson that is know for not targeting the intermediate areas of the field, that to me points more towards QB reasons and not a mandate from someone else.

I’d also say that when you can’t run the ball, and the defense knows that all your QB does well is throw deep it shouldn’t be too tough to game plan to take that away.

 

[End of Line]

That's gonna be full RB room then.

It’ll be a very young RB room. They have the kid from WVU coming in along with Peoples who is #3 on the depth chart. Also have Bo Jackson who came and enrolled early. Judkins imo needs another year. But if they win the title he’ll more than likely leave despite the rumor that’s been floating around for the last month.

 

[JTG]

When LeBeau’s protégée (Butler) was the figurehead DC, the front players including edge were put in position to succeed. We had superstars, but also exotic rush schemes.

As Tomlin has tightened the reigns and others have rightly pointed out we have gotten more and more and more of tell the superstar to beat his man and make a play rather than doing interesting things to put superstars into advantageous situations.

Say we would have traded Watt and Minkah a few years ago for three firsts . Cool. Anyone here really believe last night doesn’t end differently with Tomlin as coach?

The thing that Tomlin needs are two "head coach" coordinators that own their entire unit and he can just be a figurehead/motivator. Tomlin meddles entirely too much and I would almost bet messages get crossed at points because it looks it.

Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong regarding Cowher and LeBeau. LeBeau added some variance to Cowher's defense and it never once took a step back when LeBeau left for Cincy. As Cowher said at the time when he kept losing DC's, he created the Defense at KC. Yes Cowher finally won with Lebeau in those 3 season because 2 of them included a franchise qb for the first time in his tenure. I firmly believe if Tomlin's wife had not fallen ill, the Steeler would have won at least 3 more SB's under Cowher.

Cowher couldn't close anything out until LeBeau came on. Cowher "Prevent" defense prevented nothing.

Picking a RB in the 1st rd went so well the last time…. . I am not high on Jeantty at all. He’s a low 2nd or high 3rd rd draft pick.

How aren't you high on Jeanty? I think he's a 1st round prospect all day long. That being said, this draft someone is pulling a starting RB out in the 3rd round.

This could very well be just Watt covering for the coaching staff but the be more open to moving around thing caught my eye.

He could have been stubborn about rushing from just one spot.

I think bringing movement to the linebacking corps could be great for everyone. They have the horses to run a zone blitz style. It would help Queen not look as bad. Herbig could be used in multiple places then. I like the idea as a whole.

I think they get a DL in this draft that is an instant starter.

 

[ChaosAgent]

A simple perusal of national talking heads on Tomlin...most have changed their tune. He's too good for us, Andy Reid redux, etc. Stephen A does his hilarious "got nothing but love for the brotha he's an amazing coach" but you can tell he is really hoping the Steelers break up with Tomlin. Most of them savaged the Steelers defense and put 2 and 2 together that Tomlin coaches them. I would say about 80% said Tomlin and the Steelers should go their separate ways.

 

[T1K]

A simple perusal of national talking heads on Tomlin...most have changed their tune. He's too good for us, Andy Reid redux, etc. Stephen A does his hilarious "got nothing but love for the brotha he's an amazing coach" but you can tell he is really hoping the Steelers break up with Tomlin. Most of them savaged the Steelers defense and put 2 and 2 together that Tomlin coaches them. I would say about 80% said Tomlin and the Steelers should go their separate ways.

They can’t repeat their same takes from last year. They’re gonna feed the yinzers what they want to hear. Nothing will change.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I honestly think there is zero chance this team moves on from Tomlin until Tomlin retires, They literally haven't fired a coach since the 1960s. They're content with mediocrity as long as their maintain their dated reputation.

Also hilariously I looked up "when was the last time the Steelers fired a head coach" and found a reddit thread with this post from 8 years ago:

"I am not sure about the other coaches, but the Steelers did not need to remain patient with Tomlin. He won it all in his...what 2nd or 3rd season. He then returned to another SB...and has never had a losing season.

Yea, he is not going anywhere...rightfully so."

 

[Peat]

But when we’re talking about a QB in Wilson that is know for not targeting the intermediate areas of the field, that to me points more towards QB reasons and not a mandate from someone else.

I’d also say that when you can’t run the ball, and the defense knows that all your QB does well is throw deep it shouldn’t be too tough to game plan to take that away.

Ting is, while QB limitations matter, this was the second lowest Wilson's IAY/PA has been since they started keeping the stat and by quite a distance. Even in that first disastrous year in Denver, Wilson was far more aggressive. Payton had Wilson throw more conservatively than Smith, but, well, that's Payton. Bo Nix had a very similar IAY/PA this year. Likewise, Fields had always been more aggressive before this.

And Smith was more aggressive with the likes of Ridder and Mariota, who can't target anywhere with reliability.

I think if you've got a QB being less aggressive than they can and an OC being less aggressive than they can, things point to an obvious answer elsewhere.

The point about it being harder to do when the rushing attack isn't all of that is a fair one. But it doesn't make sense to me as the sole reason all of that happened. Not like Tomlin being conservative doesn't fit a pattern.

 

[Coastal Kev]

The thing that Tomlin needs are two "head coach" coordinators that own their entire unit and he can just be a figurehead/motivator. Tomlin meddles entirely too much and I would almost bet messages get crossed at points because it looks it.



Cowher couldn't close anything out until LeBeau came on. Cowher "Prevent" defense prevented nothing.



How aren't you high on Jeanty? I think he's a 1st round prospect all day long. That being said, this draft someone is pulling a starting RB out in the 3rd round.



I think bringing movement to the linebacking corps could be great for everyone. They have the horses to run a zone blitz style. It would help Queen not look as bad. Herbig could be used in multiple places then. I like the idea as a whole.

I think they get a DL in this draft that is an instant starter.

Dude... Cowher went something like 80-1-1 when leading by 10 pts. "Cowher's prevent defense prevented nothing"

 

[Shrimper]

I want no part of Wilson at $30m next year. Rather just go with Fields and use that cap for receivers

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong regarding Cowher and LeBeau. LeBeau added some variance to Cowher's defense and it never once took a step back when LeBeau left for Cincy. As Cowher said at the time when he kept losing DC's, he created the Defense at KC. Yes Cowher finally won with Lebeau in those 3 season because 2 of them included a franchise qb for the first time in his tenure. I firmly believe if Tomlin's wife had not fallen ill, the Steeler would have won at least 3 more SB's under Cowher.

The defense went from 15th to 1st in 2004, when they rehired Lebeau

 

[JTG]

The defense went from 15th to 1st in 2004, when they rehired Lebeau

It's not worth it.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I REALLY REALLY hope that with McCarthy out of the way at Dallas, Jerry Jones goes all in for Tomlin. Come on old man, make us an offer and save us.

Jerry isn't going to hire a black coach lol

 

[End of Line]

How aren't you high on Jeanty? I think he's a 1st round prospect all day long. That being said, this draft someone is pulling a starting RB out in the 3rd round.

The reason I’m not high on Jeanty is quality of competition. Beating up on MWC teams is much different than going up against Big Ten or SEC teams on a consistent basis. Yes, he played against Oregon in week 2 this year while Oregon was still figuring out their defense. Then he played against Penn St and was essentially shut down only avg 3.5yds a carry. In the past two years he’s ran the ball 600x which is some serious miles on his body already. Hes just not a 1st rd pick.

 

[JTG]

The reason I’m not high on Jeanty is quality of competition. Beating up on MWC teams is much different than going up against Big Ten or SEC teams on a consistent basis. Yes, he played against Oregon in week 2 this year while Oregon was still figuring out their defense. Then he played against Penn St and was essentially shut down only avg 3.5yds a carry. In the past two years he’s ran the ball 600x which is some serious miles on his body already. Hes just not a 1st rd pick.

I think his vision is quite good and he has special physical tools. He seems like a legit Kamara type RB. Boise was overmatched against quite a few teams. I just see him as a home run. That being said, I like many other backs in this draft also.

 

[JTG]

Dude... Cowher went something like 80-1-1 when leading by 10 pts. "Cowher's prevent defense prevented nothing"

To make a dominating first half a close 2nd half. Numerous times his cover 3 defense nearly blew it. That 80-1-1 record is like Tomlin's non-losing season. Eye roll.

 

[xlm34]

In order to get the next franchise Qb you need to trade up in 26 or 27. They need to get more picks. Minka was making business decisions against the ravens he gets paid way to much.

I don’t disagree with this, but until the Steelers show me they can sacrifice the now in order to plan for the future I’m just not gonna expect it.

 

[T1K]

If Deion Sanders to Dallas is true, I’d do whatever it takes to get Dak. Give Dallas the draft capital they’d need to go up and get Shedeur. Win/Win.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I would hope the Art II's son wouldn't feel the same way as Art II, but I'm skeptical. That family has done things the same way for over 55 years and have shown no indication of changing anything they do. I hope I'm wrong, but I'll believe it if it actually happens. Dan III (I think that's Art II's son's name) learned from the father, and maybe Dan before he passed on in 2017, so I wouldn't expect much if anything to change.


Or Brian Flores.

Daniel Martin Rooney is his full name, which helps people make the distinction between he and his grandfather.

I agree his father is a clown that has ruined the reputation of this org, but his grandfather is the man who built the team into the revered franchise it used to be.

Dan had no problem telling a legendary coach like Noll to hit the road when the game passed him by - few people know that because Dan let Noll retire with dignity rather than fire him.

Unlike AR2, Dan had the courage to make tough calls and not only told Noll to beat it, he fired his own brother when he felt he was holding back the org.

So I suppose the fate of the franchise greatly depends on which of the two he takes after.

 

[JTG]

Daniel Martin Rooney is his full name, which helps people make the distinction between he and his grandfather.

I agree his father is a clown that has ruined the reputation of this org, but his grandfather is the man who built the team into the revered franchise it used to be.

Dan had no problem telling a legendary coach like Noll to hit the road when the game passed him by - few people know that because Dan let Noll retire with dignity rather than fire him - but unlike AR2, Dan had the courage to make tough calls.

So I suppose the fate of the franchise greatly depends on which of the two he takes after.

Affectionately known around town and at Shadyside Academy as "Little Dan"

 

[xlm34]

Sam Darnold isn’t even a Steeler yet and he’s already learned how to be down 21 in a playoff game. He’ll fit right in.

 

[MissADD]

Sam Darnold isn’t even a Steeler yet and he’s already learned how to be down 21 in a playoff game. He’ll fit right in.

I hate that this made me laugh

 

[JTG]