OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Ploff wins?!? Fire Tomlin

[pistolpete11]

Tomlin still tried to blame the offense in his presser last night, citing fatigue and being on the field too much caused much of the defenses problems and no reporter had the balls to follow up with the question, So you are telling us your defense was tired when they gave up a 13 play 95 yard drive on Baltimores first possession, then gave up a 13 play 85 yard drive on Baltimores 3rd possession, of which 23 of the 26 plays were running plays…The Steelers got pushed around and abused like they were a high school team, Tomlins brilliant defensive plan was to crash the ends and make Lamar keep it, yet had no one near the LOS to account for Lamar.

Are you serious? I knew I couldn't stomach watching him spew his bullshit, but just unbelievable. Honestly, I think there's as much of an argument the other way that the defense hurt the offense because they couldn't get into a rhythm being on the sideline for 10min at a time.

Lamar might be the best player in the NFL. Should maybe think about watching him.

I didn't watch. The wife insisted we didn't watch the second half so I can't comment. But I agree it should have been the plan. It felt like it was the plan when they were beating up bad times. Then they went back into their shell.

The 98 yard touchdown drive was mostly a 25 yard completion to Austin ACROSS THE MIDDLE, a 37 yarder to that Mike Williams guy (who by the way didn't see another target the rest of the game), the 30 yard TD to Jefferson, and it only took like 3min off the clock. Against a team who's #1 goal should have been "DO NOT LET THEM SCORE QUICKLY".

The next drive, because I assume they backed off a little to not give up the big plays again, was mostly 2 successful screen passes to Najee and the 37 yarder to Pickens deep down the sideline.

Just amazing what happens when you don't play chickenshit football.

I do think Tomlin and Smith are feeding each other in bad ways though. I think even Canada was more inventive on first down than Smith has been, but Smith's teams are definitely going downtown less than they have in Smith's previous spots.

Smith no doubt wants to be a run first team, but I think he's working within the confines of what Tomlin wants. I think he's smart enough to know when the defense is not respecting the deep attack and to take advantage of that both to make plays and to get them to back off. Exactly what happened in the back-to-back drives that I outlined above. But Tomlin is too afraid for all the reasons people have stated until there's no choice and they have to start slinging it.

As you said, Smith is taking less shots down field than in previous stops and we are seeing the same tendencies with the 3rd OC in a row now. Don't know what other conclusion there is to draw honestly. It's Tomlin.

And it's especially frustrating because of how good Wilson is taking shots down field. Watching other games yesterday, so many of the deep throws are bad throws out of bounds or too high or too far or no touch. Wilson isn't always on the money, but he almost always gives the WR a chance to make a play and there are very few I can remember that were picked or should have been picked (the one where Pickens didn't run his route as an obvious exception).

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

What is so wrong with Tomlin & staff's gameplans & coaching is they don't adapt, they don't supplement, they don't deviate even when it's blatantly failing or the other team is adapting too. There is no ingenuity on this staff. None! Live by the sword, die by the sword. WHich is a good basic philosophy if you suck at what you do. Devise a plan and die with it.

There hasn't been any "chess" being played since Cowhers "top of the league" coaching staff left & Tomlin starting hiring guys from the neighborhood pee wee field's losing teams.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

 

[bigdaddyk88]

How can there reports of RW returning and complaining of lack of deep shots. That’s is specifically. They tried to use quick game against the ravens and it was terribly executed

 

[pistolpete11]

Surprised about Singleton.

Good news for the PSU fan side of me, bad for the Steelers fan side.

 

[wheelz87]

I REALLY REALLY hope that with McCarthy out of the way at Dallas, Jerry Jones goes all in for Tomlin. Come on old man, make us an offer and save us.

This is Jerry we talking about here.
He’s going after his boy PRIME.

 

[xlm34]

Are you serious? I knew I couldn't stomach watching him spew his bullshit, but just unbelievable. Honestly, I think there's as much of an argument the other way that the defense hurt the offense because they couldn't get into a rhythm being on the sideline for 10min at a time.

Lamar might be the best player in the NFL. Should maybe think about watching him.


The 98 yard touchdown drive was mostly a 25 yard completion to Austin ACROSS THE MIDDLE, a 37 yarder to that Mike Williams guy (who by the way didn't see another target the rest of the game), the 30 yard TD to Jefferson, and it only took like 3min off the clock. Against a team who's #1 goal should have been "DO NOT LET THEM SCORE QUICKLY".

The next drive, because I assume they backed off a little to not give up the big plays again, was mostly 2 successful screen passes to Najee and the 37 yarder to Pickens deep down the sideline.

Just amazing what happens when you don't play chickenshit football.

Smith no doubt wants to be a run first team, but I think he's working within the confines of what Tomlin wants. I think he's smart enough to know when the defense is not respecting the deep attack and to take advantage of that both to make plays and to get them to back off. Exactly what happened in the back-to-back drives that I outlined above. But Tomlin is too afraid for all the reasons people have stated until there's no choice and they have to start slinging it.

As you said, Smith is taking less shots down field than in previous stops and we are seeing the same tendencies with the 3rd OC in a row now. Don't know what other conclusion there is to draw honestly. It's Tomlin.

And it's especially frustrating because of how good Wilson is taking shots down field. Watching other games yesterday, so many of the deep throws are bad throws out of bounds or too high or too far or no touch. Wilson isn't always on the money, but he almost always gives the WR a chance to make a play and there are very few I can remember that were picked or should have been picked (the one where Pickens didn't run his route as an obvious exception).

Are there actual stats to back this up?

 

[The Old Master]

Queen probably got lamar sick with that hug

you didn't think he was just being nice?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Sub-optimization of player personnel on the field has been one of Tomlin's biggest failures.

Sub optimization in critical downs and distances and at the biggest moments of a game, may be his biggest.

Connor Heyward on the field,
On that last drive,
On 3rd and long, 4th and 22...
And having him in motion and flare out on a 5 yard pattern on that 4th down, may be the most insane player usage of the year.

He is scaring nobody,
He is changing nothing going in motion.
If he was sent in motion to see how the defense was playing..... well that's likely AND even more insane at this point in the game, season, etc.

He was wide open, because no defense would even bother to concern themselves with 83 doing something impactful in that down and distance... let alone any down and distance.

Utter failure of a coaching staff...
Top to bottom if they think they put a winning plan together, a plan to succeed... to excel.
See... the love affair with subpar players...
Connor Heyward non impactful at TE, HB and FB
Pruit as un noticeable, un impactful blocker
Patterson.... and the obvious forcing of plays to him..40% rate.
Scott Miller.
Skowronek.
Van as #2 all year...or 1a.
Sutton.

And the underuse of better skilled players.

Warren
Roman Wilson....I don't want to hear about moving trains. The Only train the subpar players mentioned above can catch is the sluggish, and simple train Tomlin engineers.
Underuse of Darnell W.


Beanie watching down the strech.
Trice watching yesterday.
Failure to put Herbig in advantageous spots or more snaps...

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Much like Tomlin, it’s time for AR2 to step down from his embarrassing reign and let his son take over.

I suspect his son wouldn’t feel the same blind loyalty to Tomlin, and would want to do things his way.

I would hope the Art II's son wouldn't feel the same way as Art II, but I'm skeptical. That family has done things the same way for over 55 years and have shown no indication of changing anything they do. I hope I'm wrong, but I'll believe it if it actually happens. Dan III (I think that's Art II's son's name) learned from the father, and maybe Dan before he passed on in 2017, so I wouldn't expect much if anything to change.

They could trade tomlin and hire another person of color like Johnson

Or Brian Flores.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Warren isn’t very good.
Been talking about drafting a te because Washington is closer to ot than a playmaker TE. Heyward is on the team for st only and his brother
Khan has work to do we saw Philly lose 5 straight last season and lose in the playoffs and their gm rebuilt the team new dc was brought in.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Warren isn’t very good.
Been talking about drafting a te because Washington is closer to ot than a playmaker TE. Heyward is on the team for st only and his brother
Khan has work to do we saw Philly lose 5 straight last season and lose in the playoffs and their gm rebuilt the team new dc was brought in.

In theory, yes another TE would do wonders for this team.

But guess what? We've got data from about 2018 that states Tomlin doesn't like throwing MOF.
Where do TE's typically do their most damage? MOF

So it'd be a waste. Hell Muth is wasted here. If he went to Philly or SF or Detroit, Muth would have monster seasons.

 

[End of Line]

I thought he should’ve won Heisman.

But he’s not even RB1 in this class IMO

I thought so too because it was honestly a weak Heisman class this year. If Melvin Gordon didn’t win it in 2014 despite rushing for over 2,500yds at Wisconsin he was never going to win it. Add in the media blitz for Colorado it was over. The vote totals did surprise me for being as close as it was.

When it comes to RB these would be my top 5 (in no order):

Kaleb Johnson (Iowa)
Dylan Sampson (Tennessee)
Trey Henderson (Ohio St)
Devin Neal (Kansas)
Kalel Mullings (Michigan)


I keep seeing Emeka Egbuka being projected to the Steelers in the 1st rd and as much as I’d love that it’ll never happen. He has too solid of a head on his shoulders and exudes character but Tomlin loves his nut jobs that he thinks he can manage. So he’s out.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

In theory, yes another TE would do wonders for this team.

But guess what? We've got data from about 2018 that states Tomlin doesn't like throwing MOF.
Where do TE's typically do their most damage? MOF

So it'd be a waste. Hell Muth is wasted here. If he went to Philly or SF or Detroit, Muth would have monster seasons.

Smith drew up and called multiple plays this season to use the mof. They let Mason us the mof last season. This is why smith wants JF instead of RW

I thought so too because it was honestly a weak Heisman class this year. If Melvin Gordon didn’t win it in 2014 despite rushing for over 2,500yds at Wisconsin he was never going to win it. Add in the media blitz for Colorado it was over. The vote totals did surprise me for being as close as it was.

When it comes to RB these would be my top 5 (in no order):

Kaleb Johnson (Iowa)
Dylan Sampson (Tennessee)
Trey Henderson (Ohio St)
Devin Neal (Kansas)
Kalel Mullings (Michigan)


I keep seeing Emeka Egbuka being projected to the Steelers in the 1st rd and as much as I’d love that it’ll never happen. He has too solid of a head on his shoulders and exudes character but Tomlin loves his nut jobs that he thinks he can manage. So he’s out.

No Hampton or Jenkins in your top 5.
I don’t think Eqbuka makes sense since we don’t need a slot wr

 

[pistolpete11]

Are there actual stats to back this up?

To be honest, I was mostly basing that on Tannehill's Y/C being much higher, but that's not exactly a reflection of throwing downfield. Peat's usually pretty good with those stats, though, so I'll take his word for it.

 

[Wattsburgh]

We aren’t going to be good until Arch Manning anyway so who cares about Tomlin Rooney and Russ or the moronic fans who think Mike T is god. Let’s just focus on this draft to help set up Archie boy. See you guys in 2027.

 

[MissADD]

I thought so too because it was honestly a weak Heisman class this year. If Melvin Gordon didn’t win it in 2014 despite rushing for over 2,500yds at Wisconsin he was never going to win it. Add in the media blitz for Colorado it was over. The vote totals did surprise me for being as close as it was.

When it comes to RB these would be my top 5 (in no order):

Kaleb Johnson (Iowa)
Dylan Sampson (Tennessee)
Trey Henderson (Ohio St)
Devin Neal (Kansas)
Kalel Mullings (Michigan)


I keep seeing Emeka Egbuka being projected to the Steelers in the 1st rd and as much as I’d love that it’ll never happen. He has too solid of a head on his shoulders and exudes character but Tomlin loves his nut jobs that he thinks he can manage. So he’s out.

Of the OSU backs, I'd rather have Quinshon Judkins between those 2, if he declares, which I think he will.

 

[xlm34]

This could very well be just Watt covering for the coaching staff but the be more open to moving around thing caught my eye.

He could have been stubborn about rushing from just one spot.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

This could very well be just Watt covering for the coaching staff but the be more open to moving around thing caught my eye.

He could have been stubborn about rushing from just one spot.

It could also be because there is real discussion about trading him and Minka

 

[xlm34]

It could also be because there is real discussion about trading him and Minka

I doubt that’s a real discussion amongst the front office. I think there’s a better chance of hell freezing over than them trading Watt unless he asks for it.

 

[End of Line]

Of the OSU backs, I'd rather have Quinshon Judkins between those 2, if he declares, which I think he will.

Rumor around town is that he’s coming back for his senior yr

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I doubt that’s a real discussion amongst the front office. I think there’s a better chance of hell freezing over than them trading Watt unless he asks for it.

Then Khan isn’t doing his job and TJ better not complain about not winning a playoff game or talk about winning a sb.

 

[xlm34]

Then Khan isn’t doing his job and TJ better not complain about not winning a playoff game or talk about winning a sb.

I’d be very surprised if we see the type of changes a lot of us want to see. I don’t think there’s going to be a major roster or coaching shakeup.

There’ll be some additions but I think they run it back at all the major spots (HC/OC/QB) and keep guys like Minkah around.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I’d be very surprised if we see the type of changes a lot of us want to see. I don’t think there’s going to be a major roster or coaching shakeup.

There’ll be some additions but I think they run it back at all the major spots (HC/OC/QB) and keep guys like Minkah around.

In order to get the next franchise Qb you need to trade up in 26 or 27. They need to get more picks. Minka was making business decisions against the ravens he gets paid way to much.

 

[Peat]

Are there actual stats to back this up?

To be honest, I was mostly basing that on Tannehill's Y/C being much higher, but that's not exactly a reflection of throwing downfield. Peat's usually pretty good with those stats, though, so I'll take his word for it.

I am not yet to be trusted on NFL stats There's so f***ing many of them and sometimes I'm not entirely sure what the f*** they're showing.

But in these case I used Intended Air Yards per Attempt on Pro Football Reference. I feel like that's a reasonably good barometer to how aggressive teams are being with their passing game and how often they're going deep

2023 - Ridder is 9th
2022 - Mariota is 1st
2021 - Ryan is 28th
2020 - Tannehill is 12th
2019 - Tannehill is 3rd

2024 - Wilson - 18th, Fields 21st

As we can see, Smith is nearly always towards the top of the league. The one exception prior to this year was Matt Ryan and I suspect he was cooked and unable to do it. The idea that this limitation applies to Wilson or Fields is risible. Ergo, you have to ask why is Smith not doing what he likes to do.

It is possible this stat represents the team is still going deep as often as a Smith team likes to, but is instead never throwing intermediate passes. That wouldn't surprise me. I believe the data is out there for QBs targeting said areas, maybe even not behind a paywall but I am *checks list of excuses* ah yes, too lazy to go look.

In any case, the exact cause for this statistical difference is, I think, mildly besides the point. Whether it's less deep throws or less intermediate throws, the depth of target is indicating Smith had to pull back his horns from where he's been at previous years.