OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Ploff wins?!? Fire Tomlin

[pistolpete11]

Still, the Steelers have to leave open the possibility he does play. Even if it's Plan B, they have to be ready for it.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

people really have a rosy view of how a bunch of incredibly competitive egocentric manchildren behave in a group

I think you may be remembering that in past years, GP was a beast in the run game. Dude would knock defenders flat off their feet. That was GP in Year 1 and Year 2.

This season has been a different story. He's not as willing as a blocker, he quits on routes and/or wrongs the incorrect ones. He's slowly becoming a cancer.

Now, I'm not excusing the behavior I outlined above but I believe GP would be more engaged if they gave him true #1 WR duties. Screw these packages with VJ as the solo WR. GP wants to play and damn if they didn't do him a disservice by not designating him as the main dog. I seriously believe that if they made GP the alpha and had him on the field 99% of the time we would see a different dude.

 

[Peat]

guy blocks like a demon, first to celebrate with his teammates when they make a huge play, etc

No. No he doesn't. in fact, there's multiple instances of him not even trying to block.

He could. He's big enough, physical enough, aggressive enough, but we're back to being a shitty teammate. Because he doesn't want to.

Also famously walked away rather than celebrate with Diontae Johnson when Johnson broke his no TDs streak.

Every time someone brings up the positive things Pickens does emotionally & professionally as a Steeler, there's almost always a big example of him doing the opposite.

I think you may be remembering that in past years, GP was a beast in the run game. Dude would knock defenders flat off their feet. That was GP in Year 1 and Year 2.

This season has been a different story. He's not as willing as a blocker, he quits on routes and/or wrongs the incorrect ones. He's slowly becoming a cancer.

Y2 was the year of the business decision. The effort stuff has got worse but it already existed.

Now, I'm not excusing the behavior I outlined above but I believe GP would be more engaged if they gave him true #1 WR duties. Screw these packages with VJ as the solo WR. GP wants to play and damn if they didn't do him a disservice by not designating him as the main dog. I seriously believe that if they made GP the alpha and had him on the field 99% of the time we would see a different dude.

He has 81% of the snaps. It could be higher but he's firmly in WR1 territory. Part of the reason it's not higher is his own behaviour.

He was also on pace 125 targets which is more than Zay Flowers and 1 less than AJ Brown's pace, so basically as many targets as the WR1 in a run heavy offence can expect. He had a 24.6% target share in the games he played. Again, true WR 1 territory. He was given these duties.

Hell, it's the first he was given those duties and the worst he's behaved and as such, I can't subscribe to the idea of giving him more as being the route to getting the best out of Pickens, as so far the trend is the more you give him, the worse he gets.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I believe the question posed to him in this clip was something like "You had the 4th most rushing attempts, but were near the bottom in Y/A. Why did you keep running the ball when it wasn't effective?"

THIS IS WHAT TOMLIN WANTS!​

We can all complain about Najee, the line, the play calling, etc., and much of it may be true, but the root of the problem is Tomlin. This is the way he wants his team to play. Waste time, don't turn it over, keep it close, hope you can somehow pull it out in the end. Against a lot of teams, it can work, but it leaves very little margin for error. So when you're outmatched or even evenly matched, a player makes a mistake, you turn over the ball once or twice, a bad call, etc., it turns the game into at best a coin flip. Against good teams, you're hoping for something spectacular.

For reference, the only teams to run the ball more than the Steelers this year, the Lions, Eagles (duh), and the Ravens (double duh) who finished 6th, 5th, and 1st in Y/A. The Steelers finished 20th.

This time a million. Why do people refuse to beleive what Tomlin puts on tape?

Tomlin's problem is he ignores the other guys get paid, too. In his reality, the play works if Broderick Jones stalemates Myles Garrett. If he doesn't, well that's just bad execution. Laziness, stupidity or stubborness or what have you, Tomlin has never appreciated the role of scheme and play call in the ability for player's to execute.

And despite all that, Tomlin usually only calls a play again if it DOESN'T work. Yet another example of Tomlin's inherently illogical nature. "Woah, that play worked pretty well...better not call it again because they might be ready for it". And it's cousin the "well, that play sucked....run it back they'll never expect us to be dumb enough to call it again!"


Tomlin always kicks that can of execution, Does he understand that poor execution by his team week in and week out is a reflection of coaching? Its not all on the players not doing their jobs. It has more to do with coaches teaching the subtle nuances of technique coupled with putting players in the best position to succeed. Putting Moore on an island against Garrett for the first half of the game (the Browns game we lost) was utterly stupid coaching. He fails miserable year in and year out at putting players in positions to succeed and help the team win. Moving Watt around and getting Herbig on the field with Watt and Highsmith might be a good idea every now and then, but we haven't seen it! He knows nothing about being a teacher of football. Remember when he told Harris he won't film study with him - it was because he has no idea what to tell Harris!

 

[T1K]

Hopkins really hasn't put up better stats than Williams the last few years and he's older. Williams is also faster (especially at this point)...which may have been a thing they wanted.

Williams hasn’t been the same since his knee injury. DHop is a possession receiver that would help us move the chains - something we don’t really have at the moment. I guess my point is the two main pieces they brought in to address WR - Williams and Wilson are not contributing to the level that we need them to. It’s just a badly designed team.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Williams hasn’t been the same since his knee injury. DHop is a possession receiver that would help us move the chains - something we don’t really have at the moment. I guess my point is the two main pieces they brought in to address WR - Williams and Wilson are not contributing to the level that we need them to. It’s just a badly designed team.

How do you suck on short yardage so badly when you have the following players:

Washington who is 6'8
Pickens who can highpoint a ball
Williams who also can highpoint a ball

They also have Muth who is generally reliable with his hands.

They never throw it on 4th down/short yardage because they're (Tomlin) afraid

 

[Pens1566]

How do you suck on short yardage so badly when you have the following players:

Washington who is 6'8
Pickens who can highpoint a ball
Williams who also can highpoint a ball

They also have Muth who is generally reliable with his hands.

They never throw it on 4th down/short yardage because they're (Tomlin) afraid

And a 240lb RB.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

How do you suck on short yardage so badly when you have the following players:

Washington who is 6'8
Pickens who can highpoint a ball
Williams who also can highpoint a ball

They also have Muth who is generally reliable with his hands.

They never throw it on 4th down/short yardage because they're (Tomlin) afraid

Don't disagree but this made me recall something from the last game. They did throw a corner fade to Washington in that gamne and I was so glad to see they were finally doing it. You could even see it was coming form the way they lined up. I was like, finally!

Now, the throw wasn't the best but Washington made the most pitiable effort and the result was incomplete. I was floored. So bad.

 

[pistolpete11]

Don't disagree but this made me recall something from the last game. They did throw a corner fade to Washington in that gamne and I was so glad to see they were finally doing it. You could even see it was coming form the way they lined up. I was like, finally!

Now, the throw wasn't the best but Washington made the most pitiable effort and the result was incomplete. I was floored. So bad.

If we're thinking of the same play, it was DPI.

They got him matched up against a DB that he almost had a foot height advantage. Drew the call and then Harris walked into the endzone on the next play.

 

[pistolpete11]

Williams hasn’t been the same since his knee injury. DHop is a possession receiver that would help us move the chains - something we don’t really have at the moment. I guess my point is the two main pieces they brought in to address WR - Williams and Wilson are not contributing to the level that we need them to. It’s just a badly designed team.

Not saying I disagree, but it might be helpful if they actually put Williams on the field and gave him more than a target a game.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

If we're thinking of the same play, it was DPI.

They got him matched up against a DB that he almost had a foot height advantage. Drew the call and then Harris walked into the endzone on the next play.

We probably are and I didn't remember all of that other. Mea cupla then.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Still, the Steelers have to leave open the possibility he does play. Even if it's Plan B, they have to be ready for it.

If he plays he will have JPJ and Trice has batemen. It’s the te they feed more often

Not saying I disagree, but it might be helpful if they actually put Williams on the field and gave him more than a target a game.

He can only run 1 route but that’s the only route GP is good at anyway

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

If he plays he will have JPJ and Trice has batemen. It’s the te they feed more often


He can only run 1 route but that’s the only route GP is good at anyway

See my commentary on execution a couple pages back. It's not all player-based when they fail

 

[T1K]

Not saying I disagree, but it might be helpful if they actually put Williams on the field and gave him more than a target a game.

Yup, at a certain point you wonder what kind of blackmail Van Jeff has on Art….

Big Mike couldn’t beat out Lazard tho in NY so I think it’s safe to say he’s not good anymore.

 

[MrBrightside]

Yup, at a certain point you wonder what kind of blackmail Van Jeff has on Art….

Big Mike couldn’t beat out Lazard tho in NY so I think it’s safe to say he’s not good anymore.

Williams is almost certainly washed and Williams is almost certainly still better than Van Jefferson.

 

[Peat]

The No. 1 Flaw With Russell Wilson

Sometimes, when watching tape, an idea forms in your head. But the eye test doesn’t always tell the story. That’s why this site was built on marrying tape and statistics. We don’t shun the data, and we definitely don’t turn our noses up at the film. Both have their place, and the best...

steelersdepot.com

Ope.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The No. 1 Flaw With Russell Wilson

Sometimes, when watching tape, an idea forms in your head. But the eye test doesn’t always tell the story. That’s why this site was built on marrying tape and statistics. We don’t shun the data, and we definitely don’t turn our noses up at the film. Both have their place, and the best...

steelersdepot.com

Ope.

Considering his moonball is the only way he gains chunk yards and you can't really do the moonball against zone, this doesn't feel all that surprising.

 

[Peat]

Considering his moonball is the only way he gains chunk yards and you can't really do the moonball against zone, this doesn't feel all that surprising.

Not saying you're wrong, but why can't you do it? Shit like this is where I still need to learn more about football.

 

[pistolpete11]

Yup, at a certain point you wonder what kind of blackmail Van Jeff has on Art….

Big Mike couldn’t beat out Lazard tho in NY so I think it’s safe to say he’s not good anymore.

I think he's just limited in what he can do, now more than ever. But the little we've seen him get a chance, he's made splash plays on those deep sideline routes which by the way is the best pass that our QB can throw. That's why I was on board with getting him on the cheap in the first place.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Not saying you're wrong, but why can't you do it? Shit like this is where I still need to learn more about football.

Are you familiar with zone vs man to man defensive concepts?

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Williams is almost certainly washed and Williams is almost certainly still better than Van Jefferson.

Williams can run 1 route and it’s the best thing RW has moon ball. Jefferson at least can run more routes.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Williams can run 1 route and it’s the best thing RW has moon ball. Jefferson at least can run more routes.

I can also run routes. Doesn't make me good at them. And by the statline, VJ isn't any good at running them either

24 catches for 250 yards from a guy who got a billion snaps. Woof.

I can promise you that washed up Mike Williams could equal or better that production. In fact, I bet Scottie Miller, Skorwek, or any other WR on a practice squad could too.

We've talked about efficiency with Harris and running the ball, but do you not understand that word when it comes to receiving as well?

 

[T1K]

I think he's just limited in what he can do, now more than ever. But the little we've seen him get a chance, he's made splash plays on those deep sideline routes which by the way is the best pass that our QB can throw. That's why I was on board with getting him on the cheap in the first place.

Yeah I mean if the idea all along was for him to serve as a secondary deep threat, totally fine, but they should’ve gotten a chain mover as well. I suspect Wilson was slated for that role, but it just didn’t work out for whatever reason (3rd round rookie is a thin bet). Right now CA3 and Van Jeff are doing their best to serve in that role, but they’re rotational players at best on a good offense.

Khan has made some great moves, but he has failed big time on the WR front.

 

[Peat]

Are you familiar with zone vs man to man defensive concepts?

Some. I get the concept of a defender having a zone vs having a man. But some of the details of it are lost on me.

 

[Wattsburgh]

I know this won’t happen but can you imagine Justin Jefferson, George Pickens, and Jordan Addison all in one lineup. They’d make Darnold the league MVP. All it costs is JJ McCarty.