GDT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Pittsburgh Finished It

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ChaosAgent

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I know losing Ben is an excuse for Tomlin in many people's eyes, however I think this offense being one of the worst Steelers offenses I've ever seen in my lifetime is absolutely a failure on this administration and coaching staff. To carry Mason Rudolph and Duck ****ing Hodges as your insurance policy to Ben is ludicrous. Ben is 37 years old and there was no backup plan?

I look around the league and see plenty of teams with passable backups with experience. Would guys like Matt Schaub, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tyrod Taylor, RGIII, Tannehill, etc have come in and lit the league on fire? No, but it would look a lot better than one TD per game and praying Watt or Fitzpatrick could score a def TD.

If Ben comes back it's necessary to get someone better to back him up instead of lazily stocking the cupboard with guys like Mason Rudolph, Landry Jones, Josh Dobbs, and Duck Hodges. Get a competent veteran so losing Ben isn't such a death sentence.

Just consider other priorities (Dupree/Hargreaves/OL/OL/OL/OL/TE/OL) rather than investing $8M in a backup quarterback. Especially when Rudolph is already better than a couple of names on your list.

If we had an elite backup/quasi-starter like Ryan Fitzpatrick or Bridgewater it'd be a different story. But there aren't that many of those. I don't see how Rudolph isn't better than Tyrod Taylor.
 

ChaosAgent

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That's my main argument. Just pointing out, I saw him do LJ things before LJ. He regressed this year when another QB who your coach is on record loving came into the picture. It's understandable. Ultimately this falls on Tomlin. Rudolph wasn't needed and screwed up Dobbs development. Difference with LJ is Harbaugh believed in him. There's a reason Rudolph fell to the 3rd round and if not for a pick from the Raiders it never happens. Mason Rudolph sucks.

"There's a reason Rudolph fell to the 3rd round."

Riddle me this - what round was Dobbs drafted in?

I don't know why I'm even arguing with you any more. If Dobbs emerges as a legitimate winning starting quarterback somewhere, please feel free to feed us all crow. Until then, shush.
 
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DanielPlainview

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People still closing Tomlin are clueless. My God. He’s lead his team to, at worst, .500 with XFL starters on offense. Get real.

Ben looks fan because his beard is crazy. I’m growing mine out and my face looks huge as a result, but I’ve barely put on any holiday weight.

Once again, Dobbs sucks.

Then again it wouldn’t be HFBoards without excessive overreacting.

What exactly has Tomlin done that makes you believe he’s responsible for this team’s record?
 

SouthGeorge

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May 2, 2018
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"There's a reason Rudolph fell to the 3rd round."

Riddle me this - what round was Dobbs drafted in?

I don't know why I'm even arguing with you any more. If Dobbs emerges as a legitimate winning starting quarterback somewhere, please feel free to feed us all crow. Until then, shush.

I know when Dobbs was taken. So tell me this do they ever reach on Rudolph if they didn't have an extra 3rd because of the Raiders? No.
 

ChaosAgent

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I'm going to wade into Mark Madden's garbage-infested waters involving him, JuJu and social media.

I'm also going to agree with him in this case. I never bought that Juju was an actual #1 WR, maybe a #1WR by default. Even with Ben this year he was going to be woefully disappointing if he weren't facing single coverage all the time.

Juju just doesn't have the athletic ceiling to be a #1. However he's building a social media empire as though he is one. Good on him for doing it and getting endorsements for it, but at some point once it's clear that he's maxed out his potential as a good #2WR I don't think he maintains his celebrity. That's going to be problematic to deal with and this franchise should be careful in Juju's next contract. I'd even be open to a trade if we could trade Juju and a 3rd rounder to get a late first or something.

Madden's disgusting but he's right in this case.
 

DanielPlainview

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Being a #1 doesn't mean you're a future first ballot HOF. JuJu is a #1. The problem is the offensive scheme is and has been garbage, masked by AB and Ben playing catch 15 times a game.

We need a good OC. Hell, even a decent OC. Fichtner has to be the worst the Steelers have had in a very long time. Maybe ever. I'd rather have Mike Mularkey back.
 
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Andy99

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Being a #1 doesn't mean you're a future first ballot HOF. JuJu is a #1. The problem is the offensive scheme is and has been garbage, masked by AB and Ben playing catch 15 times a game.

We need a good OC. Hell, even a decent OC. Fichtner has to be the worst the Steelers have had in a very long time. Maybe ever. I'd rather have Mike Mularkey back.

lol...where’s Ron Erhardt...he’s 1,000 times better than Fichtner...
 

Coastal Kev

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I'm going to wade into Mark Madden's garbage-infested waters involving him, JuJu and social media.

I'm also going to agree with him in this case. I never bought that Juju was an actual #1 WR, maybe a #1WR by default. Even with Ben this year he was going to be woefully disappointing if he weren't facing single coverage all the time.

Juju just doesn't have the athletic ceiling to be a #1. However he's building a social media empire as though he is one. Good on him for doing it and getting endorsements for it, but at some point once it's clear that he's maxed out his potential as a good #2WR I don't think he maintains his celebrity. That's going to be problematic to deal with and this franchise should be careful in Juju's next contract. I'd even be open to a trade if we could trade Juju and a 3rd rounder to get a late first or something.

Madden's disgusting but he's right in this case.


Juju is poopoo
 
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EvGeno

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I think someone here said Juju “isn’t engaged out there” during games. Why, because he doesn’t get upset and start yelling at the QB when he misses a pass? We all complained about the last wacko who did that, remember?
 

ChaosAgent

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May 8, 2018
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Being a #1 doesn't mean you're a future first ballot HOF. JuJu is a #1. The problem is the offensive scheme is and has been garbage, masked by AB and Ben playing catch 15 times a game.

We need a good OC. Hell, even a decent OC. Fichtner has to be the worst the Steelers have had in a very long time. Maybe ever. I'd rather have Mike Mularkey back.

He's maybe one of the best 32 receivers in the game. I don't know. But this is like baseball where there's a difference between "the best starting pitcher you got" and an "ace." It's a semantic difference but meaningful. Juju can maybe be the best receiver we got - not sure he'll be better than JW or DJ next year but I'll go with it - but he ain't a #1.

I'm worried about the social media stuff in his case. This sounds like old-man-yelling-at-cloud but I don't see him maintaining his clout when he's 26 logging 800 yards a season.
 

DanielPlainview

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He's maybe one of the best 32 receivers in the game. I don't know. But this is like baseball where there's a difference between "the best starting pitcher you got" and an "ace." It's a semantic difference but meaningful. Juju can maybe be the best receiver we got - not sure he'll be better than JW or DJ next year but I'll go with it - but he ain't a #1.

I'm worried about the social media stuff in his case. This sounds like old-man-yelling-at-cloud but I don't see him maintaining his clout when he's 26 logging 800 yards a season.

No. JuJu is capable of being a 1,300+ yard receiver as the top target.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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The pace Juju was on it would have killed our cap, since we will likely miss playoffs now anyway...could be a good thing he had a down year. Now we can give him a long term contract for much cheaper.

All of this #1 talk because of AB was stupid. He had to constantly hear about it, and eventually got to him. First it wasnt his fault with BB playing injured(Pats and Seahawks games) and then Mason first coming in. Randy switching the offense to ultra conservative. Then he fumbles in OT(new QB again btw ) on a catch from Duck against the Ravens and all went downhill from there. Then injured.

Some will ignore his past two seasons(or the fact they were his first two in the league and he broke all time records as a WR beating Randy Moss) and just look at this one. Thats fine, as long as Colbert doesnt(which he wont) and uses this as an opportunity to get him locked in to a longterm deal.

As for being labeled a #1. Who cares? As long as he, Washington, and Johnson all do well . Just wait til next season when we start off the season with DJ and JW not having to learn all year. If teams double Juju, one of the other two will be wide open and there is 6 points.

If its not Ben thats throwing to them, Im still betting that Mason can be that guy. But definitely need to have insurance. With the bad luck I saw him go thru this year who knows if that will ever end lol.

Ben will likely be back tho. Not buying into the report Monday that there is doubt he will return. Plan should be for Ben as starter, Mason as backup. See if they can trade Duck for a 6th rounder, we will include the rubber duck fan hats. Giving us two 6ths we can use to trade up. Get a vet QB as the 3rd. I doubt its Paxton Lynch since they still wont play him over Hodges who is by far the worst starter in the league. If Steelers do somehow make the playoffs(would require the Texans to play their starters even after seeing the Chiefs game result, and for Our D to score 3 TDs or do whatever it takes to make up for the negative impact Hodges has)...then we need to get lucky and have no other choice than to start Lynch in the playoffs. Thats how bad Hodges is. Id take someone who hasn't started in 2 seasons over him. All he'd need to do is not throw an INT(or get sacked...or fumble) while in FG range 100% of the time.. And we would have a chance.

This year aside...

Focus should be on... Tomlin being traded or not. Hopefully yes. Second, do we upgrade the OLine? We obviously should, with their being some much better options at guard who are entering FA over Ramon Foster(save 4 mil in cap by letting him go or trade him like we did Gilbert for a 6th or 7th). Then if we do get those higher picks from the Skins, we draft Pouncey's replacement. We could even trade Mark himself for an early 2nd and get his replacement that way. Oklahoma Center Creed Humphrey is projected to go late 1st/early 2nd. The 2nd rated center behind Wisconsin's Tyler Biadasz. Cant pass up that name for Center either.

The Draft Network

LT Villanueva - LG FA/ Feiller - C Creed - RG DeCastro - RT Feiller / Banner/Chuks .

Foster and Pouncey have been our leaders. It was a great run with our OLine, Ben and the rest of the Bs...but time for a new start. Villanueva(while we will replace him eventually too we don't need to lose everyone at once) and DeCastro step up as the leaders. Feiller gets re-signed, hes the real deal. Can play RT or move inside and play either guard. We'll see what happens Banner and Chuks. Really need Chuks to take that next step. Losing Munchak hurt that. And then Creed steps in as a rookie like Pouncey did. Will be hard to fill his shoes immediately but we can keep Finney around for now. Creed would eventually be a top C in this league. Hes only a soph but eligible, he'd be top ten if he stayed in college.


Then we will have a new coach which means new OC. Sorry Ben.

If we do get a RB like Dobbins, Etienne, Taylor, Hubbard in this year's draft to go with Conner(you just accept that he's an injury risk and if he wants to stay it has to be for much less, and you make sure if he does get hurt it doesnt impact the team like it has the last two years), Snell, and Whyte Jr. Samuels should be used in the passing game. Can label him a RB..FB..TE...Idc. But hes much better at catching the ball while already in open space and then making people miss. He should be able to run routes like a typical TE. Not just a RB out of the backfield. We def haven't been using him right. We could get so much more out of him. Hes not a power back. The runs up the middle were complete waste of downs. While he is big, hes more elusive....get him the ball in space. That would also solve our lack of TE prob. Having Nix back will also help the run game btw.

This offense is going to be better next year regardless if we change anything or not based on experience alone. And the bar they set this year , almost touched the ground. Shouldnt take much to have an offense than can complement our D well.

Only prob is health. Will our D stay healthy (other than Tuitt we were lucky with that) like this year? Or will next year be filled with injuries and that be a reason we lose again? I'll choose to think they'll be fine(draft and sign some depth to make sure of it too, just in case).

This could be a great off season or a complete mistake. It's for sure one that could change our next 10 years or so. The path this team will head down. If done right we win a few more SBs and players want to come here(along with coaches). If not, the opposite. We keep seeing coaches leave to get away, along with players going elsewhere for more pay because this team doesnt win anyway to make it worth staying for a little less.

Up to Rooney to get them back to where they were in the past. All it takes is a simple "yes" to Dan Snyder. Then we keep Colbert/Khan and sit back and enjoy the rest.
 
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turd

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Feb 1, 2013
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You have as much chance of being traded to Washington as Tomlin does.
 

Coastal Kev

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Feb 16, 2013
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People still closing Tomlin are clueless. My God. He’s lead his team to, at worst, .500 with XFL starters on offense. Get real.

Ben looks fan because his beard is crazy. I’m growing mine out and my face looks huge as a result, but I’ve barely put on any holiday weight.

Once again, Dobbs sucks.

Then again it wouldn’t be HFBoards without excessive overreacting.
My gosh, you can’t see the forest for the trees.

10 plus years with Ben and a top organization and 3 playoff wins. All 3 were either gifted or lucky.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Apr 13, 2010
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You have as much chance of being traded to Washington as Tomlin does.

Because of Rooney or on Washington's side? Since its def not the Skins who would prevent it from happening.

And if this were a few years ago Id agree completely. But this could now be 2 years in a row that we blew making the playoffs when basically having it locked up. Rooney has also heard plenty of complaints from minority owners...while Colbert refused to sign another deal. And now its out there that Carolina wants both him and Khan

Who went out and got Fitz for us to turn our D around? Who traded up for Bush?

I know Rooney wouldn't have the guts to change coaches any other route but thru a trade? Thats an easy one to justify.

I can def see him agreeing. Hes now witnessed Bell, Brown, etc...

To Munchak leaving(using he wants to be close to home as an excuse). And how much worse our oline was because of it. Jesse James wanting to get away from the drama. Then Colbert going out and adding Bush and Fitz proving that its more about talent than our coaching(even tho it was already obvious ).

He also only extended him one season.. Not his usual 3.

Nobody expected Colbert to trade up for Bush. Def not trade a 1st for Fitz. So dont count out what could happen next after missing the playoffs again. With us having one of our best Defensive season's ever. Blame it on QB all you want...we at least made the playoffs back then with these types of years on D. With QBs like Tomczak in there. Kordell making the AFCC a few times. Maddox. And in 90s...Brister, Odonnell, etc.

This Rooney is starting to look like an embarrassment compared to the other two, i dont think he wants that. He has been vocal lately. Came out and said we needed to fix our run D after that Jags loss. We did. Was all about trying to keep Brown and make things work. Hes not just letting things happen while he sits in the background anymore like we used to see. The amount of minority owners complaining must have gotten his attention.

Yes losing Ben was a big deal, but fact is we had a playoff spot wrapped up. We then lose to the Bills and even worse...Jets. No excuse. Mason should have been in for that Bills game at the end. We at least kick a FG instead of another pick. Or just simply run it more with Conner who averaged over 5ypc that game. 10-7 lead in 4th and had the ball 3 more times inside FG range. We lost 16-10. No excuse for leaving a "gunslinger " in there in that game....shot his eyes out. Or he should have started the Jets game. OR after Duck threw the first pick , costing us points. But it took another and down 10-0. Mason comes in and ties it up but then gets hurt. If he starts that game and we are up big maybe that doesn't happen. Maybe we are running the ball more with a 17-3 lead for example. Who knows.

Remember, Tomlin also did this with a healthy Ben standing there watching on the sidelines. Assuming we could beat the Raiders without him so he left Dobbs in. And wasnt until we lost the lead that Ben went back in right after. He then scored and gave us the lead back but with it being so late anything can happen. Our D let them get a FG, then Boswell missed his. Gets all the blame when it never should have come down to it. Tomlin is always too late to make an adjustment. Don't wait til things go wrong. He did say he "never anticipates losing "..."we will face that when we get there" tho. Wasn't typical media talk...he actually operates that way.


But Missing the playoffs could be a blessing in disguise

And anyone that mentions his record or us making the playoffs cant be taken seriously. Any coach can with the talent we always have. They arent judged on how many times making the playoffs..its about winning when getting there. Cowher had his flaws for sure but at least lost in the AFCC instead of teams like Denver with Tebow, Jags with Bortles(after our O put up 42 on their D so can't use them having a top D as an excuse), and so on. We choked in the big games back then cuz we nevr had a QB. As soon as Cowher got Ben look at what happened.

And our D has been good "enough" the past few years to make a run. It was ranked top 10. With the offense we had you cant miss the playoffs.
 
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DanielPlainview

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My biggest concern long term is Art II. He seems like a classic third generation doesn’t- really-know-what-he’s-doing type. He’d be stupid not to take the trade from Washington. Even if you think Tomlin is a good coach, 14 seasons is too long a tenure for someone who isn’t an all-time great. There aren’t many Paul Brown, Chuck Knoll, Bill Walsh, Bill Belichick types around, and Tomlin is nowhere near that class. Time for a coaching staff reboot.
 
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