GDT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Pittsburgh Finished It

[TimmyD]

Fully agree

Think of it likethis: would you trust Rivers to win you the game if you need a TD with 2 mins left?

I have seen him do it before so yes I would... I actually just watched him do it against KC last season in Arrowhead which is considered 1 of the toughest places to play

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I have seen him do it before so yes I would... I actually just watched him do it against KC last season in Arrowhead which is considered 1 of the toughest places to play

You'd take Phillip Rivers over Ben or someone else?

 

[DanielPlainview]

I think Ben'll make great Ben plays but he'll also go full gunslinger and throw a ton of picks.

I often think that people overly fetishize defense-reading...most top young quarterbacks aren't D-reading geniuses they just have 1-2 routes they focus on, a dumpoff option and their mobility. It works. Like Rivers is a genius compared to Josh Allen at diagnosing defenses and whatnot but you'd take Allen 10/10x to win a football game now. Sometimes you can read the defense right and you activate gun-sling mode and throw picks. I'm fully expecting that from Ben next year.

If there's a single thing holding Mason Rudolph back it is his lack of mobility especially in the pocket. Hope he works on it this spring. I've seen him show athleticism when chasing down his interceptions (lol) and in some of his scrambles. If he can be a league-average QB next year we can still contend even if Ben falls off.

Rivers has been playing desperate football on a bad team. The only thing Allen brings to the table over Rivers is mobility.

Rudolph's mobility is fine. His problem is he can't read a damn thing. Not the defense pre-snap. Not the defense as a play is developing. Not the OL as it's collapsing around him. I'm pretty sure Mason's head during a game is something like:

OK. We're snapping on 3.
Ready. Set. 1. 2. 3.
OMG AHHHHHHH!!!! HOLY SH!T AAAAAHHH
And I'm sacked again.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Rivers has been playing desperate football on a bad team. The only thing Allen brings to the table over Rivers is mobility.

Rudolph's mobility is fine. His problem is he can't read a damn thing. Not the defense pre-snap. Not the defense as a play is developing. Not the OL as it's collapsing around him. I'm pretty sure Mason's head during a game is something like:

OK. We're snapping on 3.
Ready. Set. 1. 2. 3.
OMG AHHHHHHH!!!! HOLY SH!T AAAAAHHH
And I'm sacked again.

For all of your hatred of him, he's done just fine - even good - outside of 6 bad quarters. 2 of which he mainly had Holton to throw to.

Your assessment that you'd take Rivers over Josh Allen right now seriously discredits your QB opinions.

 

[The Old Master]

Rivers has been playing desperate football on a bad team. The only thing Allen brings to the table over Rivers is mobility.

Rudolph's mobility is fine. His problem is he can't read a damn thing. Not the defense pre-snap. Not the defense as a play is developing. Not the OL as it's collapsing around him. I'm pretty sure Mason's head during a game is something like:

OK. We're snapping on 3.
Ready. Set. 1. 2. 3.
OMG AHHHHHHH!!!! HOLY SH!T AAAAAHHH
And I'm sacked again.

sounds like the same thing they said about Bradshaw....he learned. mason seems like a smart kid. it may take a little time, but i think he'll be ok.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I think Ben'll make great Ben plays but he'll also go full gunslinger and throw a ton of picks.

I often think that people overly fetishize defense-reading...most top young quarterbacks aren't D-reading geniuses they just have 1-2 routes they focus on, a dumpoff option and their mobility. It works. Like Rivers is a genius compared to Josh Allen at diagnosing defenses and whatnot but you'd take Allen 10/10x to win a football game now. Sometimes you can read the defense right and you activate gun-sling mode and throw picks. I'm fully expecting that from Ben next year.

If there's a single thing holding Mason Rudolph back it is his lack of mobility especially in the pocket. Hope he works on it this spring. I've seen him show athleticism when chasing down his interceptions (lol) and in some of his scrambles. If he can be a league-average QB next year we can still contend even if Ben falls off.

Weird thing with Rudolph is that he showed above average pocket awareness with a fluid ability to move at OSU and in the preseason.

Bad O line/gameplanning can wreck any young QB. Look at Carr when he went to Houston. He a shell of his former self by the end of season 2. Some QB's can take a beating and still grow like Aikmen, others wilt and are never the same.

Not putting Rudolph in that category, simply stating that I have seen a degradation of his movement in the pocket, especially after the KO by the Ravens. Yesterday was encouraging, I still think RF isn't a good choice for a young QB>

 

[SouthGeorge]

I'm not sure that Dobbs is all that good or that he would be helping the Steelers, but keep in mind that Jacksonville currently has a guy making like $50 million guaranteed as their backup... Dobbs won't ever dress over Foles simply because of that

Exactly, who knows. But trading him away for a bag of footballs was stupid. I think they did it to baby/give Rudolph the easiest path to success with nobody breathing down his back and failed.

This is the best take I’ve ever seen.

LJ was trash last year and the MVP this year. Things change and you have to put trust into players. Dobbs was a better pocket passer than LJ last year. Now do we have an OC who would tailor a gameplan around Dobbs? No. We'd run wildcat and have Samuels throw the ball over Dobbs.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Exactly, who knows. But trading him away for a bag of footballs was stupid. I think they did it to baby/give Rudolph the easiest path to success with nobody breathing down his back and failed.



LJ was trash last year and the MVP this year. Things change and you have to put trust into players. Dobbs was a better pocket passer than LJ last year. Now do we have an OC who would tailor a gameplan around Dobbs? No. We'd run wildcat and have Samuels throw the ball over Dobbs.

It didn't fail. Rudolph was downright good at times. However, I'll say this for you SG...

I am coming to the POV though that you should always have a run-first QB somewhere in the hopper and some sort of "break in case of emergency" gameplan to try to score points that way. That could have been Dobbs for the Steelers. After yesterday I think I drop Duck next year and get a true mobile guy (like a <4.55 guy) as QB3. Maybe even Dobbs himself can come back.

 

[SouthGeorge]

It didn't fail. Rudolph was downright good at times. However, I'll say this for you SG...

I am coming to the POV though that you should always have a run-first QB somewhere in the hopper and some sort of "break in case of emergency" gameplan to try to score points that way. That could have been Dobbs for the Steelers. After yesterday I think I drop Duck next year and get a true mobile guy (like a <4.55 guy) as QB3.

Yeah, not like we spent 3 years developing one and never gave him one real chance and traded him away for a bag of footballs.

 

[TimmyD]

You'd take Phillip Rivers over Ben or someone else?

I would give Ben the slight edge, because he has had the ability over his career to extend plays and turn plays that would be sacks on Rivers into positive plays. I would easily take Rivers over Manning

 

[Coastal Kev]

It didn't fail. Rudolph was downright good at times. However, I'll say this for you SG...

I am coming to the POV though that you should always have a run-first QB somewhere in the hopper and some sort of "break in case of emergency" gameplan to try to score points that way. That could have been Dobbs for the Steelers. After yesterday I think I drop Duck next year and get a true mobile guy (like a <4.55 guy) as QB3. Maybe even Dobbs himself can come back.

You are 100% correct. While Rudolph had clearly more longterm potential. Dobbs may have been more successful this year with this coach, weapons and Oline.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yeah, not like we spent 3 years developing one and never gave him one real chance and traded him away for a bag of footballs.

I think though that you need to change the offense for the run-first guy, though. You have to have some sort of wildcat ++ package (or Ravens minus minus) that you put in for him. Fichtner is a dumb human though so that can't happen.

Dobbs won't be successful in our current offense but he could maybe succeed decently in Wildcat ++

 

[SouthGeorge]

I think though that you need to change the offense for the run-first guy, though. You have to have some sort of wildcat ++ package (or Ravens minus minus) that you put in for him. Fichtner is a dumb human though so that can't happen.

Dobbs won't be successful in our current offense but he could maybe succeed decently in Wildcat ++

I wouldn't be so mad if Dobbs was traded months before. But they got in trouble for not listing Ben injured. They knew Ben was injured and still traded Dobbs to baby Rudolph. It's pure incompetence.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Rivers is >>> Eli. The defense and David Tyree were the reason Eli beat the Pats.

Also to get to be captain clutch in the playoffs you have to get there in the first place and Eli never helped much at all there.

Did you somehow miss Eli’s escape from the pocket before that throw?

Dude was clutch and beat the best QB of this era not once, but twice in the SB.

It was no fluke he got it done when it mattered.

Ranking Rivers above him is absurd.

He gets put next to them because he has better numbers then both of them over their careers... He is definitely better then Manning and he is closer to Ben then a lot of people like to think... Winning the Super Bowl isn't the only criteria to judge guys

I’m just not into FF and regular season numbers.

I’m about winning championships and while I get there are circumstances involved for every QB, I’ve never felt Rivers was held back by his teams in the playoffs.

It was more the opposite IMHO. I just think he’s a good regular season QB and can’t handle the biggest moments like Bledsoe.

Wouldn’t you rather have had Brees?

 

[ChaosAgent]

I wouldn't be so mad if Dobbs was traded months before. But they got in trouble for not listing Ben injured. They knew Ben was injured and still traded Dobbs to baby Rudolph. It's pure incompetence.

It wasn't to baby Rudolph.

It was to sell high on their new 3rd string QB.

We got Rudolph hate from all angles here. The Duck lovers, the Ben-forever fans and our resident Dobbsian lol.

 

[chizzler]

Just feel like he’s the Drew Bledsoe of this era... a guy well thought of around the league, but he doesn’t have it when it matters.

Aside from the Natrone Means era I have always liked the Chargers and think they ****ed up hard with Brees. I think they would have had at least a couple SBs with him at the helm instead of Rivers.

I get all the arguments around why they drafted Rivers, and the Brees injury scare, but always disagreed with it. That mistake put them in a bad situation having to pay both guys when Brees was due up in ‘06.

I had a buddy who was a huge Brees fan back then and told him the Chargers ****ed up hard keeping Rivers. I’ve never once doubted that feeling TBTH.

I’m sure they would have gotten a nice haul for Rivers and add that to what has become one of the most prolific QBs of all time in Brees... that’s why I think they would have won a couple SBs in an alt universe.

He might have won a Super Bowl or two if it weren’t for Turner.

 

[TimmyD]

Did you somehow miss Eli’s escape from the pocket before that throw?

Dude was clutch and beat the best QB of this era not once, but twice in the SB.

It was no fluke he got it done when it mattered.

Ranking Rivers above him is absurd.



I’m just not into FF and regular season numbers.

I’m about winning championships and while I get there are circumstances involved for every QB, I’ve never felt Rivers was held back by his teams in the playoffs.

It was more the opposite IMHO. I just think he’s a good regular season QB and can’t handle the biggest moments like Bledsoe.

Wouldn’t you rather have had Brees?

Yes I would have rather had Brees seeing how their careers have played out... but I don't blame them for letting him walk either. He had just torn his labrum in the season finale... also since you are all about winning championships are Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco better then Marino, Moon or Rivers? Rivers was held back twice in the playoffs that I can think of off the top of my head

 

[SouthGeorge]

It wasn't to baby Rudolph.

It was to sell high on their new 3rd string QB.

We got Rudolph hate from all angles here. The Duck lovers, the Ben-forever fans and our resident Dobbsian lol.

No. They knew Ben was injured and they wanted Rudolph to be the heir which is fine. That would be your 2nd string not 3rd string. They traded Dobbs because they didn't want controversy every time Rudolph had a bad game. Think about it. It worked, he was average for a long time. But nobody was calling for an UDFA to replace him. But then it happened because he was that bad. Then the UDFA became bad and we go back to Rudolph. Glass 2 gets injured again. Then we go back to the UDFA. Musical chairs with dumb and dumber. When we spent 3 years developing a QB who never got a chance and traded him away for a bag of footballs. STUPID!

 

[SouthGeorge]

Honestly, just sell Tomlin high to the Skins. Butler and Fichtner need to go and perfect time to clean house. Stop catering to Ben. He might be done or best, 1-2 years left.

 

[Smoke]

 

[SouthGeorge]

Who cares? Rudolph blows.

 

[Smoke]

Who cares? Rudolph blows.

It's all disgusting to me. So, I care.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Who cares? Rudolph blows.

.

Not a very informed opinion.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yes I would have rather had Brees seeing how their careers have played out... but I don't blame them for letting him walk either. He had just torn his labrum in the season finale... also since you are all about winning championships are Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco better then Marino, Moon or Rivers? Rivers was held back twice in the playoffs that I can think of off the top of my head

I meant champions as in plural. Ie not one off guys like you mentioned.

If a guy won more than one SB, that’s not luck in my books among all the multiple winners I can remember.

Manning never gets credit for what he did... it’s silly as hell.

When he won his second SB he was the only QB to win 5 playoff games on the road...

During his SB runs he beat league MVP Rodgers at Lambeau... then beat Brady... he beat Favre at Lambeau and beat Brady who only had one loss all season...

During their second run he set a league record in the regular season for seven fourth quarter comebacks and eight game winning drives.

He was also a two time SB MVP.

Rivers just comes nowhere close to his resume when it comes to being clutch and winning championships.

Manning stared down the legends of his day and gave them the middle finger.

Just one of the most clutch performers I’ve ever seen, but he didn’t put up big regular season stats so FF obsessed people these days just ignore how great he was in the biggest moments.

 

[LOGiK]

7) Pittsburgh Steelers (8-7): A once-magical run is running out of pixie dust. Pittsburgh scored 10 points for the second straight week, this time in a dispiriting loss to the Jets. The game hurt the Steelers' tiebreaks and now they need a lot of help to make the playoffs. Pittsburgh could earn the No. 6 seed with a win over the Ravens, a Titans loss, a Raiders loss and a Colts win. Essentially, the Steelers win a three-way tie at 8-8 with the Titans and Colts. They don't win a two-way tie with the Titans and they probably won't win a four-way tie with the Raiders, Colts and Titans. Got all that?

Beating the Ravens in Baltimore may still be the toughest part of the equation, even if Lamar Jackson doesn't play. Steelers fans will remember 2004 well, when their top-seeded team with backup Tommy Maddox at quarterback knocked the Bills out of playoff contention despite sitting many starters. It's not that hard to imagine Robert Griffin III and the Ravens defense doing enough against Duck Hodges to end Pittsburgh's season.


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